Spurs and VAR

[wrd]

They're lucky that there are no fans in stadiums at the moment. Would get seriously uncomfortable for the officials.

Makes you wonder if they'd have given it under that scrutiny.

 

[thebenjamin]

Makes you wonder if they'd have given it under that scrutiny.

I think they definitely would have given the handball by Lascelles right after. The anger would've been so toxic they would've given it to even things up.

 

[PLTuck]

Handball rule is FUBAR.

There appear to be zero managers who endorse this new interpretation. As Roy Hodgson says, it's always been a simple rule. It's been overcomplicated beyond recognition.

In MotD they even showed all our defenders constantly putting their hands behind their backs to avoid it.

Next time Harry, don't head towards the goal, just head it onto the back of the defenders arm. ?

 

[Serpico]

I think they will tweak the interpretation slightly.
Have spoken to a current Premier League Assistant this morning, and he said there is uproar amongst referees in having to adopt these laws.
They are going to put pressure on PGMOL and Premier League

VAR needed the ref to make the decision - why couldn't the plebs in the VAR room call it? It was not clear and the ref-having not given the earlier one with Carol/Dier-put himself under pressure..Could he be seen to deny two hand balls? The ref had a good game up to that point and then messed up big time. It wasn't the correct decision but easy to give as the rule is open to interpretation so corruptible. Would he have given the same decision if it was Liverpool needing 3 pts to win the title-I think not.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I think they will tweak the interpretation slightly.
Have spoken to a current Premier League Assistant this morning, and he said there is uproar amongst referees in having to adopt these laws.
They are going to put pressure on PGMOL and Premier League

I hope they do to be honest. My anger at the situation was never aimed at this referee or video referee who you are manfully defending in here. It is at the whole refereeing system from IFAB down. In this particular case the blame lays with IFAB for an absurd ruling and the referees are just following protocol.

However these are high level professionals and they must have seen the flaws in these laws from the get go, surely the lobbying should have happened at the start of the season? Do they really have to be so robotic in following laws they don't believe to be fair? Now I don't know the ins and outs of refereeing politics but I'd have a lot more respect for our referees if they openly challenged stuff like this. There was nothing wrong with defensive handballs last season whatsoever IMO, all the controversy was over attacking handballs. I don't even get why this revision was made.

I'd also like to know your thoughts on the revised rules for attacking handballs. Whilst last seasons were far too strict I can't really see how letting Havertz almost catch the ball at the weekend is a particularly good solution either!

 

[Trotter]

VAR needed the ref to make the decision - why couldn't the plebs in the VAR room call it? It was not clear and the ref-having not given the earlier one with Carol/Dier-put himself under pressure..Could he be seen to deny two hand balls? The ref had a good game up to that point and then messed up big time. It wasn't the correct decision but easy to give as the rule is open to interpretation so corruptible. Would he have given the same decision if it was Liverpool needing 3 pts to win the title-I think not.

Don't understand what you are saying at all.
What do you mean VAR needed the referee to make the decision, VAR should have made it ?
And the one thing the rule is, is not open for interpretation

 

[Trotter]

I hope they do to be honest. My anger at the situation was never aimed at this referee or video referee who you are manfully defending in here. It is at the whole refereeing system from IFAB down. In this particular case the blame lays with IFAB for an absurd ruling and the referees are just following protocol.

However these are high level professionals and they must have seen the flaws in these laws from the get go, surely the lobbying should have happened at the start of the season? Do they really have to be so robotic in following laws they don't believe to be fair? Now I don't know the ins and outs of refereeing politics but I'd have a lot more respect for our referees if they openly challenged stuff like this. There was nothing wrong with defensive handballs last season whatsoever IMO, all the controversy was over attacking handballs. I don't even get why this revision was made.

I'd also like to know your thoughts on the revised rules for attacking handballs. Whilst last seasons were far too strict I can't really see how letting Havertz almost catch the ball at the weekend is a particularly good solution either!

Yes referees have seen the flaws in these laws from the start, however whereas the PGMOL have always found loopholes and room for interpretation in the laws and directed their referees to act accordingly in consultation with the Premier League, there aren't any this time around in respect of handball. In respect of referees being robotic they can only put interpretation on the subjective laws, they can't just ignore them, or make their own up, but can challenge them, and we will see that.
I would suggest that is the same in any job.
It is almost the same as the government increasing Tax to 50%, but company/employee A saying that is not fair. What can they do ? Do they pay the 50% but try and join other like-minded and influential companies to try and get the law changed back, or do they avoid paying tax, break the law and run the risk ?

And I agree with you in respect of Havertz (I am all for the interpretation being avoidable or not avoidable handballs, and it would have been given in previous seasons), but Havertz under current laws was legal as his arms were by his side, and rebounded off his body, so cannot be classified as deliberate or making body unnaturally bigger, and as did not directly lead to a goal, and also am not convinced it hit below T-Shirt line anyway.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

When Refs were actually in charge of games, yes, we had controversial decisions, some massive ones at that, but nowhere near the levels we currently seem to be getting. They had a season to fine tune this and what do they do? Actually find a way of making it worse.

There will always be decisions that are wrong, that much is clear so what's the point. One set of incorrect decisions versus another. VAR and the people running the game are failing on all fronts. The best thing they could do IMO is to limit use of VAR to did the ball cross the line and go back to the old way of doing things instead of slowly strangling football to death with this 'improvement'

 

[Bighec]

I have today emailed the FA and IFAB suggesting they urgently review the situation before the game is completely ruined.
I think we should all do the same.
Has anyone on here the nous to start an online petition? I am sure many would sign and could put pressure on the old farts to take action

 

[Yantino]

It has to change. If it doesn't then people are going to switch off.

 

[spursfan77]

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What are we doing wrong? Do we not chase down officials enough? Are we too soft and acceptin?

 

[wrd]

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What are we doing wrong? Do we not chase down officials enough? Are we too soft and acceptin?

Because as far as the rulebook is concerned if you turn and block with your arm close to your body it's not handball but if the ball is behind you to the point where you can't see it whilst you're mid air and you're trailing arm which is stretched out wide due to the fundamental ways we as humans move our bodies then it's clear as day handball.

 

[Trotter]

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What are we doing wrong? Do we not chase down officials enough? Are we too soft and acceptin?

Not at all. It just isn't handball under the new laws at all, and VAR will have checked. If given it would have been overturned.

 

[spursfan77]

Because as far as the rulebook is concerned if you turn and block with your arm close to your body it's not handball but if the ball is behind you to the point where you can't see it whilst you're mid air and you're trailing arm which is stretched out wide due to the fundamental ways we as humans move our bodies then it's clear as day handball.

and the free kick. It’s a foul our way!

 

[wrd]

and the free kick. It’s a foul our way!

No because as stated in the rule book if you dare shift your weight away from the opposing player but do so in a way which may not allow him to happily glide past you then the opposing player is within their right to torpedo themselves both footed off the ground at a 45 degree angle into you to draw a foul.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I reckon @wrd should be the new law writer when it comes to football, it makes it far more enjoyable to read.

 

[wrd]

I reckon @wrd should be the new law writer when it comes to football, it makes it far more enjoyable to read.

The refs would hate me because I'd go back to them having to interpret a set of rules like they used to have to and not hide behind their rulebook.

 

[thekneaf]

Also introducing VAR and eliminating intent in the handball rule at the same time is ludicrous. One thing that VAR can do better than an in game referee is adjudicate intent.

 

[wrd]

Also introducing VAR and eliminating intent in the handball rule at the same time is ludicrous. One thing that VAR can do better than an in game referee is adjudicate intent.

That's why I thought the Maupay decision was brilliant because the intent was clear.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

and the free kick. It’s a foul our way!

The more I see this, especially as the ref didn't see the incident, the more I believe the League should be taking retrospective action and banning the Newcastle player for violent conduct for 3 matches.