Spurs and VAR

[wrd]

The more I see this, especially as the ref didn't see the incident, the more I believe the League should be taking retrospective action and banning the Newcastle player for violent conduct for 3 matches.

What happened to banning players for diving?

 

[SpartanSpur]

Yes referees have seen the flaws in these laws from the start, however whereas the PGMOL have always found loopholes and room for interpretation in the laws and directed their referees to act accordingly in consultation with the Premier League, there aren't any this time around in respect of handball. In respect of referees being robotic they can only put interpretation on the subjective laws, they can't just ignore them, or make their own up, but can challenge them, and we will see that.
I would suggest that is the same in any job.

And I agree with you in respect of Havertz (I am all for the interpretation being avoidable or not avoidable handballs, would have been given in previous seasons), but Havertz under current laws was legal as his arms were by his side, and rebounded off his body, so cannot be classified as deliberate and did not directly lead to a goal, and also am not convinced it hit below T-Shirt line anyway.

Like I said I don't know the politics so if they do indeed challenge the powers that be to make this rule more subjective then I will have a lot of respect for that.

I'm quite surprised the law wasn't challenged more in other countries last season.

 

[wrd]

What annoys me most in all these rules is how they dare talk about natural and unnatural body positions, to call them natural and unnatural is such bullshit. They don't understand the meaning of the words unnatural body positions. They need an expert on body mechanics to explain to them why the arm is positioned in certain places at certain times. They seem to think waddling around like a penguin is the natural way.

 

[Marty]

What happened to banning players for diving?

They took a couple of low profile targets (Niasse for Everton and one other IIRC, can't remember the club), bottled it consistently when it came to looking at players at bigger clubs who were doing it, and the whole project fell by the wayside.

 

[wrd]

Handball law: Explaining the new rule causing chaos in the 2020-21 Premier League

The latest batch of incidents have caused fury from managers, fans and pundits alike

www.independent.co.uk

hit the nail on the head here

Premier League interpretation
The Premier League – and crucially, the FA – seems to interpret the rule slightly differently and far more harshly regarding defenders.

The Premier League appears to ignore the unnatural position ruling, focusing far more on the bottom of the armpit update.
It is all well and good ensuring that attacking players will not gain an advantage, but now it appears that accidental handball for a defensive player will not be tolerated in any shape or form. Attacking players simply need to strike the ‘golden zone’ below the armpit and, in this modern world with VAR in place, they will be awarded a penalty.

 

[Thenewcat]

I genuinely think they might. I've never seen such a unity except for that twat souness "I'm a football man"

You would hope so but I doubt it. They’ve been tinkering with handball for 2 and a bit seasons now and their response to every fuck up has been to double down. Serie A and La Liga had far more pens than the PL last year and that wasn’t viewed as a problem by the cretins in charge

 

[Trotter]

When Refs were actually in charge of games, yes, we had controversial decisions, some massive ones at that, but nowhere near the levels we currently seem to be getting. They had a season to fine tune this and what do they do? Actually find a way of making it worse.

There will always be decisions that are wrong, that much is clear so what's the point. One set of incorrect decisions versus another. VAR and the people running the game are failing on all fronts. The best thing they could do IMO is to limit use of VAR to did the ball cross the line and go back to the old way of doing things instead of slowly strangling football to death with this 'improvement'

I think you are being a bit disingenuous there.
What people have been calling out for years was consistency, what one referee would give one week, another referee would not give the next.
Clubs, Players, pundits and supporters hated it.
Now we have total consistency in how a law is being applied, those same people are saying we don't want it, and let's go back to being inconsistent.

 

[sly1]

I think you are being a bit disingenuous there.
What people have been calling out for years was consistency, what one referee would give one week, another referee would not give the next.
Clubs, Players, pundits and supporters hated it.
Now we have total consistency in how a law is being applied, those same people are saying we don't want it, and let's go back to being inconsistent.

Yeah, it's consistent but makes no sense. So it hasn't solved the problem at all.

Why not make a rule that if anyone lifts their arm at all it's an automatic red card and penalty to the other team? That would be consistent. Stupid, but consistent.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think you are being a bit disingenuous there.
What people have been calling out for years was consistency, what one referee would give one week, another referee would not give the next.
Clubs, Players, pundits and supporters hated it.
Now we have total consistency in how a law is being applied, those same people are saying we don't want it, and let's go back to being inconsistent.

No, we don't. We're still hearing complaints about consistency. Nothing has changed. Unless the massive groundswell of opinion that VAR is killing the game (from supporters, media/pundits and managers/players) is totally unfounded.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I think you are being a bit disingenuous there.
What people have been calling out for years was consistency, what one referee would give one week, another referee would not give the next.
Clubs, Players, pundits and supporters hated it.
Now we have total consistency in how a law is being applied, those same people are saying we don't want it, and let's go back to being inconsistent.

No, we don't. WHAM would disagree with you among a few others already this season.

 

[Trotter]

No, we don't. We're still hearing complaints about consistency. Nothing has changed. Unless the massive groundswell of opinion that VAR is killing the game (from supporters, media/pundits and managers/players) is totally unfounded.

What has been inconsistent about ANY of the handball decisions given or not given this season ?

Every one outside the body line has been given, every one inside the body line has not been given

 

[wrd]

I never knew the goal was consistently shit decisions

 

[sly1]

People want fairness. Consistency is one part of fairness, but only when the rules actually make sense in terms of how the game is meant to be played. If the most important aspect of the game becomes random bouncing of the ball around the box, then the rules are broken. We want to watch football, not pinball.

 

[Thenewcat]

I think you are being a bit disingenuous there.
What people have been calling out for years was consistency, what one referee would give one week, another referee would not give the next.
Clubs, Players, pundits and supporters hated it.
Now we have total consistency in how a law is being applied, those same people are saying we don't want it, and let's go back to being inconsistent.

Sorry this just isn’t true. Handball was absolutely not a major bone of contention at all. The whole issue is fifa are fixing something that wasn’t broken, and being consistently atrocious is not a virtue. That’s where we are at the moment. I would guess we used to have an average of one mildly controversial handball a season for spurs, since Danny Rose against City in the CL we’ve had at least 10 in 18 months, including a ruined CL final. That’s not progress

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Besides the stupid rules, i cannot brush away the feeling that VAR doesnt eliminate bribery or showing of bias completely. One could easily look into incidents for a team and while closing an eye for the other.

I’m not sure why they don’t put it in the hands of the teams. In many other sports that use video technology the use of it is only used upon appeals. Think about cricket or tennis. They still have umpires for the in play decisions and it is only when a team appeals a decision that Hawkeye or the third umpire are used. In general the players know when there is an obvious mistake and the ones that are too close to call are just left to the umpire.

If each team had one appeal and if the appeal was wrong they lose it but if right they keep it just like in cricket then these marginal offside decisions go away because they’d be too close to bother challenging. Or the handballs in the box that red doesn’t give would just be ignored. Give the coaches the appeal and that way they are the ones controlling if there is a decision necessary and they then can’t complain about it destroying the game.

Seems fairly easy to me and not sure why football didn’t look at other sports before coming up with this current system.

 

[Graham Minshall]

What has been inconsistent about ANY of the handball decisions given or not given this season ?

Every one outside the body line has been given, every one inside the body line has not been given

MK Yid, I saw you on SSN this morning only there you went under the name of Dermot Gallagher!

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

What has been inconsistent about ANY of the handball decisions given or not given this season ?

Every one outside the body line has been given, every one inside the body line has not been given

haha, i'm the one being disingenuous. Instead of cherry picking, Google VAR consistency, take a look at the names complaining about it, the things they are complaining about. You say we're getting consistency, on 10th July VAR got three penalty decisions wrong on the same day. THREE. Where's the consistency you claim it's providing there?

So what we're not getting, is consistency, argue it as hard as you like.

 

[easley91]

I'm cool with consistency and fairness and VAR when they come to the correct call while not making stupid laws which make a mockery of football. They are now treating it like foot in hockey for defenders. My brother said it last night and I agree. It's stupid. If it blocked a goalbound effort I could understand, but the ball was nowhere near goal and hit Dier from behind. Common sense needs to prevail in these circumstances. If the defender cannot do a thing and it doesn't stop a goal, it shouldn't be given.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

What has been inconsistent about ANY of the handball decisions given or not given this season ?

Every one outside the body line has been given, every one inside the body line has not been given

Apart from West Ham last weekend.

Why is it you continue to ignore me - you won't enter conversation about either either this incident or the fact Dier was facing the opposite way where the ball came from when struck on the back and onto the arm yesterday. It's like you're on the wind up.

 

[sausage]

What has been inconsistent about ANY of the handball decisions given or not given this season ?

Every one outside the body line has been given, every one inside the body line has not been given

I think this is a big one for me:

This is a penalty, despite the ball deflecting (e.g. the original trajectory contested for had changed) onto the upper arm of the defender from a proximity that was unavoidable:

This wasn't, by Gabriel, despite not 'deflecting', and the defender 'playing the ball'

Seems like titles and qualifications will be won or loss based on the length of your sleeves.