Self-fulfilling prophecy - a winning mentality is everything.

[SpursDave88]

We are partly to blame, yes.

Anyone who doesn't think that our home support has been detrimental needs to look long and hard in the mirror. Most people do not realise how much the mindset of the supporters can change the outcome of games.

I actually think the home support has been vociferous and we have done our best to cheer the team on. The support was still loud and proud when we were 3-1 down at home to Man City with 10 men, the stadium was still rocking when we were 2-0 down to Liverpool. The cheer when Soldado finally scored a goal, always singing his name when he has been cr*p for the most part....the players have to do their part too, to play good football, it is reciprocal. Similarly, when you see players apparently not having a clue it kind of dampens the crowd... blaming lack of support is a cop out when the stadium was full for almost every home league game this year.

 

[Mr Pink]

I actually think the home support has been vociferous and we have done our best to cheer the team on. The support was still loud and proud when we were 3-1 down at home to Man City with 10 men, the stadium was still rocking when we were 2-0 down to Liverpool. The cheer when Soldado finally scored a goal, always singing his name when he has been cr*p for the most part....the players have to do their part too, to play good football, it is reciprocal. Similarly, when you see players apparently not having a clue it kind of dampens the crowd... blaming lack of support is a cop out when the stadium was full for almost every home league game this year.

Depends on your version of rocking. I was at the 5-0 to Liverpool I don't ever recall it being even remotely close to rocking - at any point.

 

[double0]

I feel alot of our fans are in need of a reality check we've done fuck all for years in terms of trophies won or the league title etc. over the last 5-10 (approaching) all we've managed to do is basically punch our own weight before that we were underachieving mid table fodder. What we have done since Levy I am happy with tbh, for us to progress further we all know we need that stadium and to build up our grass root development players but more importantly be patient with our managers. Tim Sherwood has learned quickly on the job knows how the club works knows the development players, what ever people think of him maybe because he speaks basic English i don't know but his been put into a job that was in a mess, Sherwood has IMO steadied the ship and introduced our development players and were still in a position to get into the Europa Cup which some fan are turning their nose up at.

If only we as fans could get behind him I reckon he could be the man within the next couple of seasons to really move us forward, fair enough if LVG comes in OK but I'd still like Sherwood learning off him in the wings.

 

[danielneeds]

I actually think the home support has been vociferous and we have done our best to cheer the team on. The support was still loud and proud when we were 3-1 down at home to Man City with 10 men, the stadium was still rocking when we were 2-0 down to Liverpool. The cheer when Soldado finally scored a goal, always singing his name when he has been cr*p for the most part....the players have to do their part too, to play good football, it is reciprocal. Similarly, when you see players apparently not having a clue it kind of dampens the crowd... blaming lack of support is a cop out when the stadium was full for almost every home league game this year.

No-one is suggesting our fans aren't loyal and generally supportive, the original point is that clubs that have been starved of success or have had a lot of near misses, can develop a level of fatalism from the fans to the players.

There's no doubt tha the WHL crowd can get on the backs of players when they perceive them not to be playing well. We're also a club that will tolerate a winger who won't bother to track back if he goes on a mazy dribble, and chastise a limited midfielder who works hard if he misplaces a pass. That is the culture of the club.

 

[pavvychenks]

I think it is quite telling how Liverpool reacted to being in the unexpected position of potential title-fighting and responded as a crowd by roaring the team on and singing about winning the league. As I recall when we flattered to deceive in such regard a couple of years back, we all (myself most certainly included) laughed it off as complete fantasy. Maybe thats just audere est facere, but there is still some daring involved that we've hedged off along the way. It is the hope that kills you after all, but a bit of blind tribalism wouldn't go amiss from time to time I reckon.

 

[SpursDave88]

I feel alot of our fans are in need of a reality check we've done fuck all for years in terms of trophies won or the league title etc. over the last 5-10 (approaching) all we've managed to do is basically punch our own weight before that we were underachieving mid table fodder. What we have done since Levy I am happy with tbh, for us to progress further we all know we need that stadium and to build up our grass root development players but more importantly be patient with our managers. Tim Sherwood has learned quickly on the job knows how the club works knows the development players, what ever people think of him maybe because he speaks basic English i don't know but his been put into a job that was in a mess, Sherwood has IMO steadied the ship and introduced our development players and were still in a position to get into the Europa Cup which some fan are turning their nose up at.

If only we as fans could get behind him I reckon he could be the man within the next couple of seasons to really move us forward, fair enough if LVG comes in OK but I'd still like Sherwood learning off him in the wings.

Please stop using knowing the club as a positive quality...as a club we are specialists in failure and the last thing we need is someone who is familiar with this. "Tottenham rarely beat the top clubs"...Is that the man you want leading us? Tim has not learned quickly on the job, he has driven our club into the mud, we just scraped a draw at West Brom...are you mad? I don't want Sherwood anywhere near our club.

 

[SpursDave88]

No-one is suggesting our fans aren't loyal and generally supportive, the original point is that clubs that have been starved of success or have had a lot of near misses, can develop a level of fatalism from the fans to the players.

There's no doubt tha the WHL crowd can get on the backs of players when they perceive them not to be playing well. We're also a club that will tolerate a winger who won't bother to track back if he goes on a mazy dribble, and chastise a limited midfielder who works hard if he misplaces a pass. That is the culture of the club.

This I agree with wholeheartedly, and I think the change of mentality can only come from the management.

 

[danielneeds]

This I agree with wholeheartedly, and I think the change of mentality can only come from the management.

I think Levy is searching for that transformative figure, probably one of the reasons he has been so trigger happy.

 

[double0]

Please stop using knowing the club as a positive quality...as a club we are specialists in failure and the last thing we need is someone who is familiar with this. "Tottenham rarely beat the top clubs"...Is that the man you want leading us? Tim has not learned quickly on the job, he has driven our club into the mud, we just scraped a draw at West Brom...are you mad? I don't want Sherwood anywhere near our club.

He hasn't been given a chance...everyone wants a quick fix. LVG coming to Spurs is 20/80 against we've never gone for the very top players or managers in the past that's why I feel it's time to build within ie players coaching and managers

that's just my opinion

 

[rabbikeane]

more importantly be patient with our managers. .

I'd prefer if we show that patience with the next one

 

[Mattspur]

I think we underestimate our impact on the team.

If every time a player tries something that doesn't come off a sigh of discontent comes from the fans, he'll loose the confidence to try things and take the safe option such as pass it backwards or sideways.

Why don't we as fans take the stance that whatever we play like, even if it's completely crap, we will give it our best every week to support the team to victory. Do you think if we did that then the players would gain more confidence? Do you think they'd be more likely to take risks when going forward? Do you think the players would feed off our passion? Do you think if we played with more passion, more confidence and took more attacking risks we'd win more games? Do you think you'd enjoy the games more? Now if you've answered yes to the aforementioned and haven't given the best support you can give then you're as guilty of letting the club down as the players.

I, unfortunately count myself in that group. Even when I notice the flat atmosphere I seldom do anything to improve it.

It's stupid because we all want us to win, but like most things in life we can't be bothered to put in the effort.

 

[Mullers]

It's not the fans fault that is a nonsense, the fans are not responsible for one trophy win in 13 years. The fault is with the owners, the coaches and the players. If we look back Jol wanted players with a winning mentality and he bought Edgar Davids, Redknapp wanted the same thing and he bought Scott Parker. AVB had a winning mentality, whether you liked him or not, he took every competition seriously. Carrick said at Man Utd you are expected to win every match where as at Spurs that is not the case.

 

[CowInAComa]

I feel alot of our fans are in need of a reality check we've done fuck all for years in terms of trophies won or the league title etc. over the last 5-10 (approaching) all we've managed to do is basically punch our own weight before that we were underachieving mid table fodder. What we have done since Levy I am happy with tbh, for us to progress further we all know we need that stadium and to build up our grass root development players but more importantly be patient with our managers. Tim Sherwood has learned quickly on the job knows how the club works knows the development players, what ever people think of him maybe because he speaks basic English i don't know but his been put into a job that was in a mess, Sherwood has IMO steadied the ship and introduced our development players and were still in a position to get into the Europa Cup which some fan are turning their nose up at.

If only we as fans could get behind him I reckon he could be the man within the next couple of seasons to really move us forward, fair enough if LVG comes in OK but I'd still like Sherwood learning off him in the wings.

This entire quote sums up the small time mentality of our fan base and consequently our club as a whole. Punching above our weight, mid table fodder blah blah.

We aim low and we achieve it time and again. We dont demand success and celebrate meaningless small victories as if we have made it.

We were the biggest spenders in the summer transfer window. In the world. Im not having the bullshit excuse that we are punching above our weight. Poor little tottenham. Atletico Madrid are taking on and beating Barca and Madrid for fuck sake. Liverpool have gone from comedy club to probably league winners in ONE season.

The truth is, we could have got the manager Liverpool got, and we could have got the players liverpool got over the last few season and you know what.. if we did have we would still just miss out on top 4. Because our fans would expect us to not achieve, they would be on forums smugly declaring us as punching above our weight and that top 6 should be our aim, and the prophecy would fulfill itself. again.

Say what you want about Liverpool, but thats largely the same squad of players that finished behind us last year, its the sense of fucking entitlement, the 'back where we belong' arrogance that has ensured that a decent run of form was powered into a title chase.

 

[SpursDave88]

This entire quote sums up the small time mentality of our fan base and consequently our club as a whole. Punching above our weight, mid table fodder blah blah.

We aim low and we achieve it time and again. We dont demand success and celebrate meaningless small victories as if we have made it.

We were the biggest spenders in the summer transfer window. In the world. Im not having the bullshit excuse that we are punching above our weight. Poor little tottenham. Atletico Madrid are taking on and beating Barca and Madrid for fuck sake. Liverpool have gone from comedy club to probably league winners in ONE season.

The truth is, we could have got the manager Liverpool got, and we could have got the players liverpool got over the last few season and you know what.. if we did have we would still just miss out on top 4. Because our fans would expect us to not achieve, they would be on forums smugly declaring us as punching above our weight and that top 6 should be our aim, and the prophecy would fulfill itself. again.

Say what you want about Liverpool, but thats largely the same squad of players that finished behind us last year, its the sense of fucking entitlement, the 'back where we belong' arrogance that has ensured that a decent run of form was powered into a title chase.

Persisting with Sherwood after this season would be the ultimate confirmation of this.

 

[double0]

This entire quote sums up the small time mentality of our fan base and consequently our club as a whole. Punching above our weight, mid table fodder blah blah.

We aim low and we achieve it time and again. We dont demand success and celebrate meaningless small victories as if we have made it.

We were the biggest spenders in the summer transfer window. In the world. Im not having the bullshit excuse that we are punching above our weight. Poor little tottenham. Atletico Madrid are taking on and beating Barca and Madrid for fuck sake. Liverpool have gone from comedy club to probably league winners in ONE season.

The truth is, we could have got the manager Liverpool got, and we could have got the players liverpool got over the last few season and you know what.. if we did have we would still just miss out on top 4. Because our fans would expect us to not achieve, they would be on forums smugly declaring us as punching above our weight and that top 6 should be our aim, and the prophecy would fulfill itself. again.

Say what you want about Liverpool, but thats largely the same squad of players that finished behind us last year, its the sense of fucking entitlement, the 'back where we belong' arrogance that has ensured that a decent run of form was powered into a title chase.

Its being realistic... even Atletico Madrid went years punching below their weight before they appointed Simeone and gave him time. He was an ex player that knew the failures and embarrassments AM fans had endured there best strikers players being sold othen. Simeone changed the mentality now Sherwood who is being described as a little Englander because he doesn't speak posh like it or not knowns this club down to the development players if he was given time why couldn't it work for us. We've tried everything else bar an alpha top manager which I doubt we could attract.

Im certainly not small time but more a progressive planner/thinker. what we've witnessed is failure mixed with some half decent football with an occasional world class player thrown in . What I'm saying using the boxing term is to box cleaver we have been swinging wildly and getting knocked out then starting again doing the same bloody things.... its time now to ropeadope take time and build within for glory.

 

[SpursDave88]

Its being realistic... even Atletico Madrid went years punching below their weight before they appointed Simeone and gave him time. He was an ex player that knew the failures and embarrassments AM fans had endured there best strikers players being sold othen. Simeone changed the mentality now Sherwood who is being described as a little Englander because he doesn't speak posh like it or not knowns this club down to the development players if he was given time why couldn't it work for us. We've tried everything else bar an alpha top manager which I doubt we could attract.

Im certainly not small time but more a progressive planner/thinker. what we've witnessed is failure mixed with some half decent football with an occasional world class player thrown in . What I'm saying using the boxing term is to box cleaver we have been swinging wildly and getting knocked out then starting again doing the same bloody things.... its time now to ropeadope take time and build within for glory.

Ridiculous comparison, Simeone had actually managed a number of other clubs before returning to Atletico where he had been a player. He had more than 100 caps for Argentina, so was a far more decorated player and also won things as a player, including La Liga with Atletico, and Serie A with Lazio, as well as winning a couple of league titles as a manger in Argentina. He also won a trophy in his first season as manager of Atletico. It is never a good time to employ someone incompetent a la Sherwood.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

What about that time when Redknapp said that we'll win the league? I wasn't on this site when it happened, but what was the reaction like? I myself at the time thought he was spouting absolute nonsense.

It takes more than words to the press to instil a true winning mentality.

Just ask Rafa 'I guarantee a top four finish' Benitez

 

[dk-yid]

Our entire club needs a mental overhaul.

 

[neilp]

Our entire club needs a mental overhaul.

I agree with this, but it's got to be a top down approach. It starts with the manager instilling confidence to the players, and this in turn will give the fans confidence so they will encourage the players all the time rather than the moaning that comes through to them now.

It's no wonder that good players are making those stupid errors that are costing us goals all the time this season.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Yeah, the quote from Forlan though. Seems to want to put it all down on the negativity of the fans. i don't know much about Spanish football, but in England I think that the fans are now too far disassociated from the Players and the club to make much of a difference at all, let alone be to blame .

Just my onions.

Opinions I don't think anyone could really disagree with. I know many comparisons are made between rugby and football for all sorts of reasons, but one thing I do like in rugby is the lack of 'disassociation' between players and fans. It is not uncommon to have a beer with first teamers or internationals in the beer tents after a game. Not saying that should necessarily happen in footy, but it certainly helps in that respect. Perhaps there ought to be a few initiatives to bridge that gap….. Anyway, slight digression.

I certainly don't think a negative crowd helps, but on the other hand, it can be argued that fans should be able to vent their views. Negative or not. I tend to believe that its mostly upto the team and manager to put something positive forward, for the fans to be positive about. EVen if its just a good effort….