Player Watch - Steven Bergwijn signs for Ajax

[delawarespur]

Judge the player after the season, and if you guys can’t do that, at least give it 10-15 games or so. He was the best forward against wolves last week, no one was claiming he was the next Messi. Now he has an average game, and it’s “he’ll never be good enough.” It doesn’t work like that, and for the last time, 1.5 seasons should not form a decisive opinion on a player, good or bad, unless non-footballing issues are present a la Ndombele supposedly. Should he produce too little in terms of goal contributions this season, then as far as I’m concerned it’s time to evaluate.

 

[ikky]

Stevie, that you?

Stevie Wonder I think

 

[septicsac]

He is nowhere near Sons class, an insult to Sin to even suggest it. Goals win games, Son know how to score them, Steve on the other hand is still trying to figure it out and may never do so and definitely not to Sons level

 

[delawarespur]

Just like Son, he's an average dribbler, however unlike Son his low confidence easily effects his performances, especially in key moments.

He's a better footballer than Son and Moura but Son is more consistent and Moura will dribble past three players in one sequence and then misplace (or mis control) a ten yard pass in the very next possession.

I'm hoping Gill gets a start in the league asap - "age ain't nothing but a number".

I’m gonna back this up. But just to be clear I’m not for a second saying Stevie is better than Son. As an attacker, what really matters is the final action, and Son is world class at finishing, ball striking, and his final ball in general. It’s why he’s a world class forward. But in terms of touch, general weight of pass, decision making with and without time in the build up, control in tight spaces, and take ons, it isn’t some crazy statement to say Stevie is better than Son. That’s all that is being said here.

 

[SpursTillIDie1882]

His all round play is much better.

Wow, ok, ill leave it here and just say i completely disagree

 

[chrisd2k]

He is nowhere near Sons class, an insult to Sin to even suggest it. Goals win games, Son know how to score them, Steve on the other hand is still trying to figure it out and may never do so and definitely not to Sons level

I don't agree he's a better footballer than Son however, Son can be streaky. When he's on he's world class but when he's off his first touch can be heavy and not affect the game.

Stevie has very good technique. His first touch is nearly always good which is why so many on here say there's a player in there.

I just don't think he has that confidence, bordering on arrogance in his ability. He looks introverted and you can see that in the way he plays. He would really benefit with a sports phycologist because he just doesn't back himself.

 

[BigVic]

I do think there is a player there. This is really his first proper run in the team. He’s be in and out for the last 2 years. Give him a run of games to actually integrate properly and i think he will be useful.

 

[JacoZA]

I’m really losing fate in Steve, even though his work rate is good he is basically non existent attack wise. Never challenges his man on 1v1, just backpass to reggy or one of the CMs, misses a lot of sitters and don’t have an accurate pass on him. Really hope that i’m wrong here, but Lucas at least can dribble a lot and create some chances every other game and, needless to say, Adama is already 5 times the player Steve is, being only 2 years older

We just spent a week watching countless replays on social media of him absolutely skinning two Wolves players?
Dele even said SB is the most skillful player at the club.

He‘s maybe not had a great game this weekend, but I think most would agree that he has had a decent start to the season, and while he is not above criticism we should aim to be accurate lest we create an unnecessarily negative narrative around the player.

 

[isaac94]

He wasn’t on his own in that regard, the entire frontline was lacklustre today. Lucas didn’t pull up any trees when he came on either.

thought lucas looked much better when he came on, had a decent shot and nearly set up kane for a goal

 

[BigVic]

thought lucas looked much better when he came on, had a decent shot and nearly set up kane for a goal

Fair.

 

[Kiedis]

thought lucas looked much better when he came on, had a decent shot and nearly set up kane for a goal

Coming on in the last 20 minutes against leggy defenders, you sort of expect that. He played horribly against both Wolves and Pacos, so of course Bergwijn got the nod this time.

 

[worcestersauce]

I see all the time in the Traore thread that he has no end product and keeps missing whenever he shoots yet I'm surprised not to see that in this thread. Bergwijn is working really hard and out on the left is pretty integral to the way we're currently playing but I think the point is valid.

 

[tobi]

We just spent a week watching countless replays on social media of him absolutely skinning two Wolves players?
Dele even said SB is the most skillful player at the club.

He‘s maybe not had a great game this weekend, but I think most would agree that he has had a decent start to the season, and while he is not above criticism we should aim to be accurate lest we create an unnecessarily negative narrative around the player.

It was a great piece of skill but it was also one moment.

I will say it again, he (and Son) are average dribblers, they don't attack their opponents enough in 1v1 situations.

Son doesn't have the technique for it (it shouldn't stop him from attacking the byline more often). Stevie has the technique but lacks the confidence. Moura is comfortably a better dribbler than both but he is equally frustrating in his own ways.

Many are in shock by my comments. In the next games (or previous games so far this season) pay close attention to all three when they're in 1v1 situations.

Stats are great but they can sometimes lack context, however dribbling is a very simple stat that cannot be disputed, I invite all those that disagree with me to have a look.

 

[Aphex]

No you are correct we don't have a good dribbler in attack, other than Moura but he has his own issues as to why he isn't good enough.

Traore would be very useful in that regard.

On Berg, I don't ever see it working out. If he was in the Watford side would you notice him? Sarr looks twice the player.

He has literally zero end product, he just seems to play like a work horse wide player, does the basics ok but there is no x factor with him at all. He is a squad option but nowhere near the quality of Kane and Son, it's such a clear area we need to upgrade.

 

[worcestersauce]

No you are correct we don't have a good dribbler in attack, other than Moura but he has his own issues as to why he isn't good enough.

Traore would be very useful in that regard.

On Berg, I don't ever see it working out. If he was in the Watford side would you notice him? Sarr looks twice the player.

He has literally zero end product, he just seems to play like a work horse wide player, does the basics ok but there is no x factor with him at all. He is a squad option but nowhere near the quality of Kane and Son, it's such a clear area we need to upgrade.

I agree, I'm no cheerleader for Traore but if we have Bergwijn doing what he does with his failings then Traore would be a better option.

 

[JacoZA]

It was a great piece of skill but it was also one moment.

I will say it again, he (and Son) are average dribblers, they don't attack their opponents enough in 1v1 situations.

Son doesn't have the technique for it (it shouldn't stop him from attacking the byline more often). Stevie has the technique but lacks the confidence. Moura is comfortably a better dribbler than both but he is equally frustrating in his own ways.

Many are in shock by my comments. In the next games (or previous games so far this season) pay close attention to all three when they're in 1v1 situations.

Stats are great but they can sometimes lack context, however dribbling is a very simple stat that cannot be disputed, I invite all those that disagree with me to have a look.

I'm not disputing that he is not a prolific dribbler (currently - at PSV he was putting up very decent numbers). I am pointing out that the claim that he never takes an opponent on 1v1 is objectively false, and the stats back that up.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

To be honest I did think he was poor today. There were a few times when he received the ball quite advanced on the left and he just didn't want to take a bit of a risk or run at his man in a match where we really needed that to try and break through. Lucas wasn't great but his intent was better and very nearly gave Kane a tap in after a good direct run past their fullback.

I still think both him and Lucas should be no more than bench options for the most part though.

Works hard, ok when he has space to run in, but there's no "wow" factor with him.

I don't see it. Definitely need an upgrade on him and Lucas.

Works hard but never plays with any belief or swagger. So many times you just want him to face his man up and show what he can do and he invariable stops and passes square.

I’d probably get some disagrees but if Ajax can pony up £25m for him I’d sell him and use that money towards Traore.

I do think he’s improving he just looks sharper all round. Is that enough though? Ultimately his job is goals and assists or at least chip in a bit I don’t expect Son & Kane numbers. But stick a top draw attacking player next to Son & Kane and it massively elevates us. Facts are he’d get Nowhere near starting for City Chelsea Liverpool.

I honestly try my best to support any player (even The D Word was backed before actually seeing how shit he is) but when it comes to young Mr Bergwijn, I just don't personally see him showing much more than what little he's shown us so far.

Hard work & industry is all well and good, but he inspires little confidence in us plebs who watch him each week. So fuck knows how little confidence his teammates must have in him.

I'm sure he's a lovely lad, and it's clear he's a hard worker. Fair play to him, nothing but respect.

We're supposedly moving forward now, so there’s no room for sentimentality or nice guys who do a decent enough job.

 

[idontgetit]

Judge the player after the season, and if you guys can’t do that, at least give it 10-15 games or so. He was the best forward against wolves last week, no one was claiming he was the next Messi. Now he has an average game, and it’s “he’ll never be good enough.” It doesn’t work like that, and for the last time, 1.5 seasons should not form a decisive opinion on a player, good or bad, unless non-footballing issues are present a la Ndombele supposedly. Should he produce too little in terms of goal contributions this season, then as far as I’m concerned it’s time to evaluate.

This is a player that played 35 matches last season and scored a single goal. I really don't mind Bergwijn and was one of the only people pointing out early on last season he was being misused by Mourinho on the right. He's not done enough though to start over the likes of Bale last season or over Gil or Moura this season.

It's not that I don't want to give him time, I just find it incredibly frustrating to see better players on the bench given less time.

What you're advocating is not giving Moura time, not giving Gil time. So yes, at the end of the season is the time to properly evaluate but now it's also fair enough to say he's not done enough to justify starting a big run of games and keeping others on the bench.

 

[Push & Run]

Didn't see the game but listened to it which is always a tad short of reality, so can anyone tell me how Stevie B compared to Sarr who on some sites had rave reviews

 

[delawarespur]

This is a player that played 35 matches last season and scored a single goal. I really don't mind Bergwijn and was one of the only people pointing out early on last season he was being misused by Mourinho on the right. He's not done enough though to start over the likes of Bale last season or over Gil or Moura this season.

It's not that I don't want to give him time, I just find it incredibly frustrating to see better players on the bench given less time.

What you're advocating is not giving Moura time, not giving Gil time. So yes, at the end of the season is the time to properly evaluate but now it's also fair enough to say he's not done enough to justify starting a big run of games and keeping others on the bench.

Please show me where I said these words. To make it easier for you, you won’t find them in my post. I’m not saying he needs to start and play every game in order to be judged completely. I don’t see training, and I don’t have control over what Nuno does. But he’s not picking him because unless he thinks he offers something or deserves a chance. Whether Bergwijn starts all 60 odd games this season or is dropped from thee squad completely, judge at the end of the season. If he doesn’t play nearly as much as a player in that position should, that tells me his status and ability in a different way just as much as if he plays a lot but plays poorly.

Son was almost gone after his first season, and a lot of people ere okay with it. Dier and Sanchez have generally been wanted gone by many, understandably, but look how they’ve started the season. And again, look how long it’s taken them. It’s still not enough, because they need to prove it consistently. The point is, it’s never too late for a player to turn things around or improve. It’s why when a player has talent, because we’re not a club who can just buy everyone, we have to give them all the time to try to show it. For me, 2-2.5 seasons, playing a lot or not playing a lot, is the minimum for younger players or players from abroad to make their case. Now let’s see what Bergwijn does this season and I’ll happily update my stance at the end of it, is all I’m saying.