EL or not EL

[parklane1]

It does bring a smile to your face, on one hand we have fans slamming Levy for only winning one trophy during his spell, and yet on the other hand we have some of the same fans saying they do not want to be in the EL which last time i looked was a tophy.

You could not make it up.

 

[Atomic Flea]

What happens next season in terms of who gets to play in the EL? If we finish 6th will we still play in it? Bit confused with the winners of the carling cup and league cup getting a spot? Anyone care to clarify?

 

[Shadydan]

What happens next season in terms of who gets to play in the EL? If we finish 6th will we still play in it? Bit confused with the winners of the carling cup and league cup getting a spot? Anyone care to clarify?

If a team who is in the top 5 places manages to win the Capital One cup then the extra Europa League place goes to the team who finish 6th which is why this season the EL is 'awarded' to 5th and 6th as Man City won the cup.

The F.A cup has no bearing, the runners up get the Europa League place unless the final is contested by two teams in the top 5 then it gets given to the team who finish 6th.

 

[MaccSpurs]

For footballing reasons, no, I do not want us qualifying for the Europa League which used to be a decent competition until they messed around with it. The worse thing they did was give Champions League failures a second chance.

Where we are right now, we need to take a step back to take two forward. In 2009/10 when we finished 4th and did qualify for the Champions League this is because in 2008/09 we finished 8th and did not have the Europa League to contend with. With the exception of the F.A. and League Cups all we had to do was concentrate on our league position.

However, from a financial perspective it is better to be in the competition then out of it.

 

[spurs9]

Some interesting reading about the effect of the EL on league campaigns. The problem isn't the Europa League but more so the English FA's refusal to help the teams in it by changing schedules to give the teams more recovery time.

With Winning the Europa League giving CL qualification next season it raises the dilemma, do we go for both or not take the EL seriously?

FA's in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, France & Germany do all they can to help their clubs.

The 'recovery day study' shows that only 2 rest days have a negative effect on performance while 3 or more rest days have no negative effect

Spurs have 53 points of 30 games. Without EL they have 40 pts of 19 games (2.1 points per game). After EL on Thu they have only 13 pts of 11 games (8 home games!)(1.18 points per game).

To break these 11 games down, 4 of the games you could argue we would have lost or drawn anyway (Arsenal home & away, Man Utd home and Liverpool Home) but only 1 loss was by more than 1 goal, so maybe we would have been more competitive in these games and got a better result. I think we could have certainly expected better results for West Ham and Newcastle at home and Norwich away.

Swansea (h) - won 1-0
Arsenal (a) - lost 1-0
Cardiff (a) - won 1-0
West Ham (h) - lost 3-0
Hull (h) - won 1-0
Newcastle (h) - lost 1-0
Man Utd (h) - drew 2-2
Liverpool (h) - lost 5-0
Norwich (a) - lost -1-0


Across the study, teams playing after just two days’ recovery against teams who had enjoyed at least a three-day gap were found to be 42% less likely to win.

Verheijen: ‘The problem is not the number of fixtures, but the scheduling. The differences in performance between teams after a three and a six-day gap are almost imperceptible.’

http://www.fifpro.org/en/news/study-only-two-recovery-days-is-unfair-play

 

[MattyP]

I was going to start a new thread but figured as the topic would be along the lines of this thread I should just tag it into here.

We absolutely should go all out to get Europa League football next season, 2014/15. And here's my thought process.

To qualify for the Champions League the season after next (2015/16) we either have to:

1. Finish in the top four competing over 38 games against the likes of Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, them lot down the road, Man Utd (who will not be as shit as this year), plus there's normally one or two other random clubs.
2. Win the Europa League over a maximum of 17 games I think it is, not playing anyone decent until after the group stages.

I don't get the whole argument about qualifying for it means to many midweek games, too much travelling. What happens if we do qualify for the champions league - I'm pretty sure that involves midweek games and travelling too. Playing Thursday/Sunday isn't that different to playing Wednesday/Saturday.

Hell, if we don't have the depth in our squad to rest our best players in the group stages so that the effects of this aren't so great, then will we really have the depth in our squad to be challenging for top four anyway?

 

[Rout-Ledge]

It's depressing slogging through so many tedious non-games in the group stage just to get dicked on by any half-decent footballing side at the first time of asking in the knockout.

I'm pro taking the Europa seriously, but if we're not taking it totally seriously (and we're clearly not, given Tim's approach to the second leg at Benfica) then we need to chip it right off.

 

[shelfboy68]

I was going to start a new thread but figured as the topic would be along the lines of this thread I should just tag it into here.

We absolutely should go all out to get Europa League football next season, 2014/15. And here's my thought process.

To qualify for the Champions League the season after next (2015/16) we either have to:

1. Finish in the top four competing over 38 games against the likes of Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, them lot down the road, Man Utd (who will not be as shit as this year), plus there's normally one or two other random clubs.
2. Win the Europa League over a maximum of 17 games I think it is, not playing anyone decent until after the group stages.

I don't get the whole argument about qualifying for it means to many midweek games, too much travelling. What happens if we do qualify for the champions league - I'm pretty sure that involves midweek games and travelling too. Playing Thursday/Sunday isn't that different to playing Wednesday/Saturday.

Hell, if we don't have the depth in our squad to rest our best players in the group stages so that the effects of this aren't so great, then will we really have the depth in our squad to be challenging for top four anyway?

Problem for us is when we get out the group stages we are simply no good as we never get past quarter final mark in the year's we have been in it.
But it's probably better to be in it than not it's more money coming in.

 

[worcestersauce]

Not, it would seem.

 

[Wrenchy]

So ladies and gents, if we were to qualify for the CL next season (I know we won't but for the sake of this post lets assume we do), who would be in the higher seeding pot, us or Man City?

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

Believe it or not it would still be us. The coefficient rankings are actually quite interesting, and as I said in a previous post in this thread, points are far easier to come by in the Europa League. The seedings for draws are decided by the clubs total coefficient from the previous 5 season, and looking far ahead into the future, if we want to be in pot 2 for the group stage draw in the 2015/16 CL, being in the EL next season will be crucial.

09/10 3.585
10/11 24.671
11/12 10.050
12/13 19.285
13/14 18.214
Total 75.806

So our coefficient for next season is 75.806, putting us 18th in Europe (above Man City), which will comfortably make us top seeds in the EL next season. So depending on how seriously we take the EL next year, we could expect to get get between 15-20 coefficient points. So as I said, next season will be the last that our 09/10 season out of Europe will be included in our ranking, meaning that for the 15/16 season we will have a coefficient between 90-95, which, at a push, could see us rise to as high as 11th in the rankings. That would guarantee us pot 2 in the CL, and if three teams above us aren't in the CL that season, (extremely unlikely, I know) we could conceivably be in pot 1, which would be remarkable for a club that's been in the CL once in recent history.

So yes, we should definitely go for the EL. Even if just for moments such as that two minute spell in Benfica.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

Yes we should qualify for next year. Why? It offers another avenue into the Champions League from next season.

And a better chance of players in the summer. Not that EL football is a brilliant attraction but better than not having any European stage to play on. Add CL if you win and it might offer a bigger attraction?

 

[EQP]

Some interesting reading about the effect of the EL on league campaigns. The problem isn't the Europa League but more so the English FA's refusal to help the teams in it by changing schedules to give the teams more recovery time.

With Winning the Europa League giving CL qualification next season it raises the dilemma, do we go for both or not take the EL seriously?

FA's in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, France & Germany do all they can to help their clubs.

The 'recovery day study' shows that only 2 rest days have a negative effect on performance while 3 or more rest days have no negative effect

Spurs have 53 points of 30 games. Without EL they have 40 pts of 19 games (2.1 points per game). After EL on Thu they have only 13 pts of 11 games (8 home games!)(1.18 points per game).

To break these 11 games down, 4 of the games you could argue we would have lost or drawn anyway (Arsenal home & away, Man Utd home and Liverpool Home) but only 1 loss was by more than 1 goal, so maybe we would have been more competitive in these games and got a better result. I think we could have certainly expected better results for West Ham and Newcastle at home and Norwich away.

Swansea (h) - won 1-0
Arsenal (a) - lost 1-0
Cardiff (a) - won 1-0
West Ham (h) - lost 3-0
Hull (h) - won 1-0
Newcastle (h) - lost 1-0
Man Utd (h) - drew 2-2
Liverpool (h) - lost 5-0
Norwich (a) - lost -1-0


Across the study, teams playing after just two days’ recovery against teams who had enjoyed at least a three-day gap were found to be 42% less likely to win.

Verheijen: ‘The problem is not the number of fixtures, but the scheduling. The differences in performance between teams after a three and a six-day gap are almost imperceptible.’

http://www.fifpro.org/en/news/study-only-two-recovery-days-is-unfair-play

Essentially this, without adequate recovery and prep time teams are always going to suffer on sunday fixtures. But do you see the FA allowing teams in the EL to play on monday? Wouldn't that affect the amount of people who go to the games and isn't safety a concern?

 

[Macspur261]

What position in the PL misses out on Europa, is it 7th ?
Help someone.

 

[spurs9]

What position in the PL misses out on Europa, is it 7th ?
Help someone.

Yes, it will be 7th this year.

 

[Macspur261]

Yes, it will be 7th this year.

Thank you.
I still hope we make the Europa.