Ratings vs Chelsea

[Phomesy]

his corners

Your Eriksen hatred is beyond belief. You can't stand the fact you were proved wrong about him being dropped and proved wrong by how his presence helped turn around our worst midfield performance gainst Monaco to one of our best in the first half.

Is he in great frm? No. Is he a vital cog in our pressing and midfield game plan? Absolutely yes.

Anyone who watched us against Monaco and in the first half tonight knows the difference. It was clear as a fucking bell mate Jesus...

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Dembele didn't just "make a mistake" - he carelessly lost the ball multiple times when, having won the ball, our fullbacks (Walker) were charging forward and were left hopelessly exposed when Dembele's dwelling on the ball cost us a turnover.

It resulted in two goals.

The second of which you want to blame on Eriksen - fine, he as also indeicisve but it's hard being decisive around Dembele at the moment because NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO!

Least of all Dembele.


Now, I agree with you that he's our most important player and actually sometimes we need him to take risks just to shake up the opponents shape. But he cost us badly tonight and pretending otherwise is just a little bit silly.

In case you hadn't realised I had you in the muppet category

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Your Eriksen hatred is beyond belief. You can't stand the fact you were proved wrong about him being dropped and proved wrong by how his presence helped turn around our worst midfield performance gainst Monaco to one of our best in the first half.

Is he in great frm? No. Is he a vital cog in our pressing and midfield game plan? Absolutely yes.

Anyone who watched us against Monaco and in the first half tonight knows the difference. It was clear as a fucking bell mate Jesus...

I don't hate Eriksen, I just think he has been off form. He scored a great goal today but was largely anonymous the test of the time.

As to my comment, are you going to tell me you think his corners are anything short of exceptionally poor ?

 

[whitesocks]

Eriksen deserves credit for a fantastic goal but had a horrible misunderstanding with Dembele to gift the second goal.
Wanyama was pretty steady as was Vertonghen but I'm giving it to Walker who was busy, solid defensively and offered width up front - plus he showed some fancy footwork once or twice.
OK once.

 

[THFC_SWE]

In case you hadn't realised I had you in the muppet category

Who is embarassing here? You quoute every member that you do not agree with, and tell them that they do not know anything about football or that someone is in the muppet category. Are you in the muppet category?

 

[Phomesy]

I don't hate Eriksen, I just think he has been off form. He scored a great goal today but was largely anonymous the test of the time.

As to my comment, are you going to tell me you think his corners are anything short of exceptionally poor ?

Someone complained about Eriksen's corners after he came on against Monaco. This despite the fact he put one on Dier's head and another on Alli's foot. Two clear chances squandered.

Again, tonight - he delivered several perfect corners into dangerous places with NO ONE there. I blame Toby for this. How you can blame Eriksen is beyond me... At least he's consistently getting over the first defender lately!

 

[journeyman]

One of our better performances of the season in my view. More encouraged by that than many games where we picked up points.

 

[double0]

Someone complained about Eriksen's corners after he came on against Monaco. This despite the fact he put one on Dier's head and another on Alli's foot. Two clear chances squandered.

Again, tonight - he delivered several perfect corners into dangerous places with NO ONE there. I blame Toby for this. How you can blame Eriksen is beyond me... At least he's consistently getting over the first defender lately!

I don't see why we can't put a body on the near post for corners to get a few flick on...Wimbledon style

 

[Cravenspurs]

I don't usually abuse fellow Spurs fans but just go and do one. You clearly understand nothing about football. We play well when Dembele plays well. He set the entire tempo of our game in the opening period and was largely responsible for our dominance. Yes he made a mistake and so the muppets come out to have a pop.

Lol...he is a talent, but he is not exempt from open criticism.

These boards are torn on Dembele.

Personally, like some, he has been great at protecting possession but abysmal at starting attacks. He cuts down so much space for players to operate and relys too much on his dribbling prowess.

 

[VertongHen]

Wanyama 8 a rock.

Damn, that must've fucked up his teeth a bit

 

[Shea]

Lloris - 6 not at fault for either goal and largely untested other than that. one goal kick straight to hazard was criminal and almost costly
Dier - 5 - not his worst game but the boy is looking more and more like a CM playing at CB. We need Toby back
Vertonghen - 6 I thought he was ok aside form his ill discipline for their winner. he should have been the leader and organiser and we shouldn't have allowed them so much space for such a cheap goal..
to reiterate WE NEED TOBY BACK
Walker - 7 looked like a top class RB today I thought. solid at the back and explosive going forward. liked play well too
Wimmer - 5 out of position so maybe I'm being harsh. I thought he was a donkey, I thought he's looked too slow and too clumsy most times I've seen him play for austria or us this season. he was useful cover alongside Toby last year but even then I never thought he would be good enough personally. I don't see his future with us.
Wanyama - 7 I thought he was a rock today, broke up play well, retained possession well and even passed it around effectively without trying anything beyond his scope of practice
Dembele - 6 - mixed bag for me. ultimately a frustrating and ineffective performace though. had moments of nice play but didn't influence the game enough and I feel he was at part to blame for the change in momentum gifting them possession close to half time when we had a free kick deep in their half, shortly after they were level
Son - 4 after a terrible performace midweek he bounced back with a slightly less terrible performance today. did nothing to cause chelsea problems and didn't put a defensive shift in when we needed support, left Wimmer exposed
Eriksen - 6 great goal, couple of nice pieces of play after but he also failed to support the team defensively and this cost us
Dele - 5 real lack of discipline and team work ethic today. he only seemed interested when he could directly be involved and would run off throwing his hands in frustration after play broke down instead of getting back behind the ball to support the defence
Kane - 6 worked hard, played well for the most part. shame he was just off side for his goal. lacked service but never stopped working

NkD 7 - looked dangerous as soon as he came on and had a couple of almost moments

Winks 6 - looked tidy on the ball and showed commitment to work back for the team

Janssen 5 - barely noticed he was on - impact sub who, as always , made zero impact

 

[eddiev14]

Kyle Walker was excellent.

Pity Rose wasn't there with him tonight, definitely would not have lost had he been.

Too ponderous at times. Dembele and Eriksen very much to blame for that. The goal aside I just don't see those two being brave enough with the ball.

We do look so much better with Kane back though, it's remarkable the difference he makes.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Which parts of his game have improved under Poch?

His ability to dictate the game.

 

[millsey]

How many mom has Wanyama got for us!

 

[mpickard2087]

This was once again a game of two halves. We started off the game in an encouraging manner, virtually everything about our play was better... The attitude, work rate, our closing down and pressing, our intent with the ball such as trying to pass forward or not being afraid to have a pop at goal... The first half was played mostly on our terms and I think we deserved the lead for doing most of the running and on balance of play.

Tactically this was about who could gain the upper hand with possession and then whether our 4-2-3-1 could do damage in central spaces, or their 3-4-3 variation could overpower down the flanks. The first half we shaded the battle, we had more composure to our play, pressed pretty well, and found some joy between the lines. This didn't continue though, more later.....

We should really have gone in one up, but out of the blue it didn't happen. It was a cracking hit, but it comes from our own free kick. With seconds left we should have been slowing it down and playing territory. Not taking a quick one, dicking about with the ball, and losing it and leaving us vulnerable to a counter. You could then say there was too much time and space afforded to Pedro, but I think it's largely due to us still being disorganised and he's picked up a position between the lines whilst we're still vulnerable in those seconds after giving the ball away.

The second half was a good test for us. Could we regroup at the break, clear our heads and come back out and play again in a composed, focused manner? Unfortunately we couldn't really get back the foothold we had. The early part of it was Chelsea's best spell and this was when they turned things around on the tactical front. They threw off the shackles, pushed their wingbacks forward and we struggled to react to this and it ultimately resulted in the winning goal. Wimmer was targeted, but it wasn't actually his fault in my opinion. If he already has Pedro to mark, then he can't mark Moses as well (which we saw for the winning goal, but numerous other times too). The winger has to track back with him. It didn't happen, we didn't adapt.

Chelsea reverted to a cautious approach, and so we had more ball towards the end, but we didn't really look like forcing an equaliser. I thought the subs were a bit strange, I'm not sure how much fitness played a part but we took off two of our three likely scorers in the team.

Also when we were struggling to play through them, I do think sometimes we need to try something different in the final stages... I'm watching as we've got the likes of Wimmer and our centre backs on the pitch with little to do as they sit off, and thinking why not send one or two of them forward and get the ball in the penalty area, compete, and see what happens? At least make them defend at close quarters. Yes it's a bit desperate, but in the closing moments you have to try. Sometimes we have to think a bit, rather than carrying on by default.

It was a fairly close game overall but we had a setback and couldn't really respond. Chelsea were decisive when they had their best spell after the break and got the deciding goal. We desperately need some 90 min performances (or as close as we can to it) over the next few weeks, pick up some wins, and regain momentum.


Lloris - Didn't actually have a huge amount to do. Nearly put us in real trouble with one short goalkick, and never exudes total confidence in his play with the ball at his feet, but all in all a fairly quiet game.

Walker - Did ok.

Dier - First half hour or so was doing a great job of sticking like glue to Costa and just not allowing him any easy ball into feet. After that Costa had things far more his own way and wriggled away far too easily for the winning goal. Was also a bit loose for the equaliser. I don't think he's a bad a centre back as some make out, but he's got to be a bit more dominant in certain situations.

Vertonghen - Ok.

Wimmer - Don't think he was to blame for Moses having so much space, that's Chelsea exploiting overlaps and us not working out who tracks back with who. Defensively was fairly solid. Some awful use of the ball at times though.

Wanyama - At times could probably have been a bit more positionally savvy, but on the whole was fine.

Dembele - A real mixed bag. Started off pretty well, helping us go forward and playing with purpose. Didn't really last though, and he was a bit ragged at times. Also lost the ball for both goals, even if the second one he got a bit of a hospital pass. Still doesn't look fit enough and quite able to get around the park, especially defensively.

Eriksen - Decent first half, cracking goal, influence tailed off quite badly in the second.

Alli - Found some good positions at times, especially first half, but he also faded as the game went on.

Son - Poor game.

Kane - Had some moments, worked quite hard, but we need more though and for him to be back firing on all cylinders.

Subs:
Nkoudou - Few bright moments. Is he just an impact sub for now though?

Winks - Composed in what he did.

Janssen - n/a.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think it's a massive shame that on a day when we were collectively pretty good, a couple of individual lapses cost us some kind result, because we sure as shit didn't deserve to lose this game.

I am really disappointed with Pochettino's continual peccadillo for shoehorning Dembele into a a CM2. I think a much better application of him, especially if Pochettino is going to insist on playing 4231 would be to push him forward into Lamela's ARM position, drop Alli - we simply can't have Alli and Son fucking around in the same third of the pitch right now, it's like watching a pair of blindfold spaniels chasing a ball with a bell in it, in the middle of a minefield - and play a front 4 of:

Kane
Son------Eriksen-------Dembele​

Then you have balance of bias (L-R) with both Son and Dembele able to swerve inside and unleash, allowing the FB's to overlap in the wide spaces the 343 vacates, you also have a balance of skills, Son is direct and energetic, Eriksen is more metronomic and composed and looks to pass, Dembele holds and dribbles and with Dembele you actually get the same kind of tenacity and even better defensive qualities from the front that you get with Lamela. You also don't get the lethargy and lack of tempo moving the ball from CM that we keep getting when two of Wanyama/Dier/Dembele play in this 4231 CM2 format.

It can look OK when the front four are all pressing vigorously and we are winning the ball high up and all Wanyama and Dembele have to do is mop up the odd spillage, but as soon as we have to create some tempo from midfield, or the opponent digs into a deep block and counters like Chelsea after the second goal and Monaco on Tuesday or most teams at WHL, then Dembele's dawdling around in ever decreasing circles just kills momentum - and I think the withdrawal of Dembele in recent games and his substitution of Winks and pushing Dembele into the AM zone today is an admission of this, I just wish he'd stop starting like it.

Dembele has been getting caught on the ball every single game he plays, and this has caused the defence more problems than Bentaleb's odd stray pass used to. I said last week he's been exceedingly lucky that they haven't cost us, well today they were the catalyst for both goals. On neither occasion should they have been fatal, but because of other poor individual contributions to the clusterfucks, they turned out to be.

The first goal the defending by Dier and Walker is pretty fucking schoolboy. Walker generally had an excellent game, but what the fuck he and Dier are doing with Pedro is anyone's guess, Walker ends up about 5 yards away in complete no mans land, I appreciate he has a man on the flank to think about, but he doesn't end up covering him either, he just goes wandering off Pedro into a fucking wilderness of nowhereness and secondly Dier also just stands way to far off him, marking nobody and allows the little twit all the time and space in the world to pick his spot, it was piss poor.

The second goal, Dembele's caught again taking an unnecessary touch, but the player who deserves most scathing criticism is Son, who when Dembele loses the ball is standing with Moses, he just stands and lets him run away from him, and this was endemic in Tuesday's fucking fiasco too, and why we are out of the CL. That was Son's job, especially in this system and the way these two teams are matched up, with us playing 4231, with a CB as LB, the wide AM has to pick up their wing back and Son just goes to fucking sleep and allows Moses to get 10-15 yards on him and eventually this costs us a goal. A basic and unforgivable unwillingness to take responsibility and put in the effort - and this was ultimately the difference between points and none.

There were some decent things to take out of this game, but the bottom line is, we've somehow managed to turn victory and a bloody good 45 minutes into another defeat which was devoid of much final third moments of clarity.

Individual

Lloris - Another couple of really poor distribution moments.

Walker - Overall a very good game, but poor for the first goal.

Vertonghen - Good game

Wimmer - Decent enough out of position, nothing going forward but hardly a surprise.

Wanyama - Good game.

Dembele - Even in the first half when we were playing well as a group and his remit was pretty straightforward, he was still no more than competent, with a player next to Wanyama who could zip the ball a bit quicker we might just have created more with our dominance and we certainly might not have gone in level if he hadn't been caught dribbling - again.

Eriksen - I thought he had a pretty decent game overall, (saw the ball more than Dembele fore-instance despite playing as an AM) was at the hub of a lot of good moves first half, should have had an assist for a beautiful free kick but for Kane stupidly drifting offside, scored a belter and though he at least continued to play second half unlike some, like the whole team got bogged down second half.

Alli - Lively-ish first half but I don't think he should be starting right now. Was virtually anonymous second half (touched the ball 8 times in the second half).

Son - Followed the debacle of Tuesday with another pretty erratic performance. Was involved enough first half but went to sleep completely on Moses for the second goal and ended up seeing the ball 8 times second half.

Kane - Worked hard, and like Eriksen was the only one of the front group who actually saw as much ball second half as the first. Decent performance.

Subs - OK. I like Winks a lot, he's a nifty little player who'll not let you down and while I thought his introduction was a definite step in the right direction, I would just love to have seen him really gamble and chuck Onomah on as well, because although we haven't seen the best of him yet, he is a player who is capable of something special. I'd have happily seen Winks, Onomah and Nkoudou all chucked into the fray.

 

[YiddoBirdy]

I think you should watch the 1st half again and see how many times Wimmer got down the left wing

Yes but he didn't offer any attacking threat. He did make a few forward runs and fair play to him he did try. But whenever he received the ball his first thought was to go back to Vertonghen. Anyone who thinks that he is a better left back then Davies based on that performance are crazy imo.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

I think it's a massive shame that on a day when we were collectively pretty good, a couple of individual lapses cost us some kind result, because we sure as shit didn't deserve to lose this game.

I am really disappointed with Pochettino's continual peccadillo for shoehorning Dembele into a a CM2. I think a much better application of him, especially if Pochettino is going to insist on playing 4231 would be to push him forward into Lamela's ARM position, drop Alli - we simply can't have Alli and Son fucking around in the same third of the pitch right now, it's like watching a pair of blindfold spaniels chasing a ball with a bell in it, in the middle of a minefield - and play a front 4 of:

Kane
Son------Eriksen-------Dembele​

Then you have balance of bias (L-R) with both Son and Dembele able to swerve inside and unleash, allowing the FB's to overlap in the wide spaces the 343 vacates, you also have a balance of skills, Son is direct and energetic, Eriksen is more metronomic and composed and looks to pass, Dembele holds and dribbles and with Dembele you actually get the same kind of tenacity and even better defensive qualities from the front that you get with Lamela. You also don't get the lethargy and lack of tempo moving the ball from CM that we keep getting when two of Wanyama/Dier/Dembele play in this 4231 CM2 format.

It can look OK when the front four are all pressing vigorously and we are winning the ball high up and all Wanyama and Dembele have to do is mop up the odd spillage, but as soon as we have to create some tempo from midfield, or the opponent digs into a deep block and counters like Chelsea after the second goal and Monaco on Tuesday or most teams at WHL, then Dembele's dawdling around in ever decreasing circles just kills momentum - and I think the withdrawal of Dembele in recent games and his substitution of Winks and pushing Dembele into the AM zone today is an admission of this, I just wish he'd stop starting like it.

Dembele has been getting caught on the ball every single game he plays, and this has caused the defence more problems than Bentaleb's odd stray pass used to. I said last week he's been exceedingly lucky that they haven't cost us, well today they were the catalyst for both goals. On neither occasion should they have been fatal, but because of other poor individual contributions to the clusterfucks, they turned out to be.

The first goal the defending by Dier and Walker is pretty fucking schoolboy. Walker generally had an excellent game, but what the fuck he and Dier are doing with Pedro is anyone's guess, Walker ends up about 5 yards away in complete no mans land, I appreciate he has a man on the flank to think about, but he doesn't end up covering him either, he just goes wandering off Pedro into a fucking wilderness of nowhereness and secondly Dier also just stands way to far off him, marking nobody and allows the little twit all the time and space in the world to pick his spot, it was piss poor.

The second goal, Dembele's caught again taking an unnecessary touch, but the player who deserves most scathing criticism is Son, who when Dembele loses the ball is standing with Moses, he just stands and lets him run away from him, and this was endemic in Tuesday's fucking fiasco too, and why we are out of the CL. That was Son's job, especially in this system and the way these two teams are matched up, with us playing 4231, the wide AM has to pick up their wing back and Son just goes to fucking sleep and allows Wnayama to get 10-15 yards on him and eventually this costs us a goal. A basic and unforgivable unwillingness to take responsibility and put in the effort - and this was ultimately the difference between points and none.

There were some decent things to take out of this game, but the bottom line is, we've somehow managed to turn victory and a bloody good 45 minutes into another defeat which was devoid of much final third moments off clarity.

Individual

Lloris - Another couple of really poor distribution moments.

Walker - Overall a very good game, but poor for the first goal.

Vertonghen - Good game

Wimmer - Decent enough out of position, nothing going forward but hardly a surprise.

Wanyama - Good game.

Dembele - Even in the first half when we were playing well as a group and his remit was pretty straightforward, he was still no more than competent, with a player next to Wanyama who could zip the ball a bit quicker we might just have created more with our dominance and we certainly might not have gone in level if he hadn't been caught dribbling - again.

Eriksen - I thought he had a pretty decent game overall, (saw the ball more than Dembele fore-instance despite playing as an AM) was at the hub of a lot of good moves first half, and though he at least continued to play second half unlike some, like the whole team got bogged down second half.

Alli - Lively-ish first half but I don't think he should be starting right now. Was virtually anonymous second half (touched the ball 8 times in the second half).

Son - Followed the debacle of Tuesday with another pretty erratic performance. Was involved enough first half but went to sleep completely on Moses for the second goal and ended up seeing the ball 8 times second half.

Kane - Worked hard, and like Eriksen was the only one of the front group who actually saw as much ball second half as the first. Decent performance.

Subs - OK. I like Winks a lot, he's a nifty little player who'll not let you down and while I thought his introduction was a definite step in the right direction, I would just love to have seen him really gamble and chuck Onomah on as well, because although we haven't seen the best of him yet, he is a player who is capable of something special. I'd have happily seen Winks, Onomah and Nkoudou all chucked into the fray.

Cannot agree more. Am I the only one who think BC always has good evaluation on the team when we lose?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't usually abuse fellow Spurs fans but just go and do one. You clearly understand nothing about football. We play well when Dembele plays well. He set the entire tempo of our game in the opening period and was largely responsible for our dominance. Yes he made a mistake and so the muppets come out to have a pop.

Don't remember seeing Dembele on the pitch against City?

We played well today but Dembele wasn't great.

Honestly you are really embarrassing yourself, just stop. Perhaps go and watch this if you want a decent perspective on the game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38117911

Don't really see how the, somewhat incoherent, post match ramblings of Pochettino support any of your arguments?

 

[danielneeds]

I actually think the performance today was pretty similar to the one against City at home.

We pressed them as effectively in the first half. The only difference is that City didn't take their chances, or Lloris saved them. And we missed a couple of chances to slip in players while 1-0.

But we've had some bad results so people are angry or panicking, or something.