Ratings vs Chelsea

[Phomesy]

If Eriksen is a "vital cog" then here's what is likely to happen during any game:

View attachment 27078

I think he is overrated by a long margin of late, and his ability to influence a game is far less than any of us think. One goal in a dozen games is one of the reasons we are struggling to win. Time for a change and a run of games with Eriksen on the bench.

That is exactly what happened against Monaco when he didn't start. our midfield was absolutely torn to pieces - the worst midfield display for years.

Look how many times do I have to say it - Eriksen is out of form. So is much of the team. But the point is he performs a role that, currently, no one plays better. It's screamingly obvious how disjointed we are in midfield without him there - particularly as Lamela is missing as well.

There is simply no one better to come off the bench and play his role (until Lamela is fit) - and that has been proven without a shadow of a doubt by the evidence of the games so far.

More importantly it's not me who thinks that (although I do) it's POCH who believes that. And empirical evidence is on his side.

The problem is we don't have enough quality or experience on the bench in that role. Eriksen isn't "overated" he's unfortunately the best we have.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Whats daft about that?

i asked at this level to stop you harping on about what he does at youth level........and asked what he has done when playing in the first team for you to say he should have come on in such a big game to do something special, like you suggested.


Onomah has shown us very little ....and doesn't even look like he really wants it tbh.

Poch seems to have lost a little interest in him too....

What's daft is, as I pointed out, a player doesn't have to have proved something at "this" level to actually end up being capable of playing at this level.

He's had 8 minutes "at this level" so far this season (and about 20 last), if we'd judged Kane at the same stage of his Spurs career (and he'd had loans too) he'd be playing somewhere else now.

Now imagine if Kane had only ever been played as a left winger.

As for the "big game" yesterday, it's not like he could have done any worse than the likes of Alli second half is it? Seriously ?

Onomah is not a winger or wide AM, it's absolutely ridiculous to judge him based on the piss poor opportunities he's had so far.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

That is exactly what happened against Monaco when he didn't start. our midfield was absolutely torn to pieces - the worst midfield display for years..

How on Earth you can say that Eriksen would have prevented that is questionable. I haven't seen him make one tackle in midfield all season, and to say that he would have made a difference to that midfield that was "torn to pieces" beggars belief.

Support a player by all means, but don't show blind love, i mean comments about his game and form aren't solely owned by me.

 

[Phomesy]

How on Earth you can say that Eriksen would have prevented that is questionable. I haven't seen him make one tackle in midfield all season, and to say that he would have made a difference to that midfield that was "torn to pieces" beggars belief.

Support a player by all means, but don't show blind love, i mean comments about his game and form aren't solely owned by me.

If you can't see my point having outlined it as clearly as I can - choosing instead to just believe it's "blind love" - then there's not much point continuing the conversation. Suffice it to say that I'll be over the fucking moon if Eriksen gets dropped and our play overall improves out of sight like you seem to believe.

 

[Ionman34]

How on Earth you can say that Eriksen would have prevented that is questionable. I haven't seen him make one tackle in midfield all season, and to say that he would have made a difference to that midfield that was "torn to pieces" beggars belief.

Support a player by all means, but don't show blind love, i mean comments about his game and form aren't solely owned by me.

I think you're missing the point of BC's argument Gaz. It's not about him getting in tackles to win the ball back, it's about his positioning and how he cuts down options, along with his ability to retain the ball to reduce further options. If they don't have the ball they can't set up attacks.
Admittedly his poor form has seen him turn over the ball far more than usual and his ability to find a penetrative pass has nosedived somewhat, but BC's point is valid, there isn't anyone else available, whilst Lamela (another who gets pilloried on a regular basis by the usual few) isn't available.

Eriksen is a busy player off the ball, he harries the opposition, forces them to make rash decisions or reset and start again. He's not in the same class going forward as a Silva or even Coutinho has been, but I wonder how much of that is down to lack of incisive movement ahead of him rather than him missing glaring opportunities.
Edit: sorry, I should have written Phomesy rather than BC.

 

[Wellspurs]

First Chelsea loss and now Ed Balls is out of Strictly... can't wait for this weekend to end!

 

[Spurs 1961]

I appear to be in the wrong thread. Anyway I can't see how we can rate players as poorly as some do, except of course the common immediate overreaction. For most of the game we made the most in form side in the league look poor me thinks that makes our players decent.
Giving MOTM to Walker for a good all round display.

 

[Gilzeanking]

There's a lot of lively discussion here about player details and different tactics . For me though and this echoes Poch's comments the match turned out as it did as a result of the team's mentality . Every media outlet or social platform was showering the team with abuse after Monaco . Our players were always going to react . The differences between the performances vs Chelski and Monaco were massive.

This isn't to do with moving the deck chairs around a bit on the Titanic , stick player A 5 yards to the left and player B 4 yards forward and bingo , all is sorted . Its bigger than that .

The team were motivated vs Chelski and vs Monaco they weren't ...simple as that .Many games last season had a motivated team and a frantic press , we did well . This year not so much . The key difference is the weaker press . Can Poch get the players back to that level ? he did for 45 vs Chelski so we're all feeling better about seeing that .

However , I'm hoping he can get them motivated for the 'smaller' teams coming up , but given the overall picture this season , its a worry .

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I think you're missing the point of BC's argument Gaz. It's not about him getting in tackles to win the ball back, it's about his positioning and how he cuts down options, along with his ability to retain the ball to reduce further options. If they don't have the ball they can't set up attacks.
Admittedly his poor form has seen him turn over the ball far more than usual and his ability to find a penetrative pass has nosedived somewhat, but BC's point is valid, there isn't anyone else available, whilst Lamela (another who gets pilloried on a regular basis by the usual few) isn't available.

Eriksen is a busy player off the ball, he harries the opposition, forces them to make rash decisions or reset and start again. He's not in the same class going forward as a Silva or even Coutinho has been, but I wonder how much of that is down to lack of incisive movement ahead of him rather than him missing glaring opportunities.
Edit: sorry, I should have written Phomesy rather than BC.

He has scored one goal in a dozen games, whether he harasses other teams players or not, that simply is not good enough or indeed i would guess why he was signed in the first place. GKN, Son, Winks. Dembele and Lamela can all hold the ball up and harass the opposition. I am simply asking for a change over the next half dozen games?

One win in ten would suggest that things need to change if not they will categorically remain the same. After all why buy GKN if you have no intention to start him? What pressure is Eriksen under knowing that his place is under no threat?

 

[Shea]

If the result was won by what you deserved

First half we would have been at least 2 goals up

Second half we would have lost by the odd goal

Overall we were the better team, we are slightly more sloppy and they more clinical

But we played well and imo deserved the win

But I don't think anyone would say we deserved anything less than a draw from that game

A game we played away against one of the strongest teams in the league (if not Europe) with several of our key players out

When we get all our players back and get a run of games to find our form withour a makeshift line up we will be back to being one of the best trams in the league and back to fighting for top four

Maybe a fa cup or Europe league for a bit of silverware - I think we are capable

 

[THFCSPURS19]

If Eriksen is a "vital cog" then here's what is likely to happen during any game:

View attachment 27078

I think he is overrated by a long margin of late, and his ability to influence a game is far less than any of us think. One goal in a dozen games is one of the reasons we are struggling to win. Time for a change and a run of games with Eriksen on the bench.

Yeah, because we were so disastrous last season when Eriksen was starting every game.

And you, like many others, seem to equate 'influence' to 'goals scored'. Eriksen's role has changed since he joined us so he's meant to be more of a metronome in the team. Admittedly, whilst he performed that role very well last season, he hasn't been nearly as good this season - although as I've said, I thought he played well in the first half.

 

[ultimateloner]

In the last 20 mins when we were chasing the game we failed to get a single shot on target.
I think that's our main problem lately; failing to create.

Kane protected the ball well and spread play around; Poch also did the right thing putting that kid Ndokou (sorry can't spell) on. He was risky since he tried taking guys on near the 1/2 way line, but what more can you do.

But aside from above we didn't have alot of ideas. Eriksen can hold a ball but can't run with it under pressure. Dembele couldn't see a pass. In the end we need the full backs to make the runs but they cant come forward with Hazard and Willian's threat.

I think teams have learnt to defend our default strategy of getting the full backs forward; we are going to need a plan B if we want more goals.

 

[double0]

In the last 20 mins when we were chasing the game we failed to get a single shot on target.
I think that's our main problem lately; failing to create.

Kane protected the ball well and spread play around; Poch also did the right thing putting that kid Ndokou (sorry can't spell) on. He was risky since he tried taking guys on near the 1/2 way line, but what more can you do.

But aside from above we didn't have alot of ideas. Eriksen can hold a ball but can't run with it under pressure. Dembele couldn't see a pass. In the end we need the full backs to make the runs but they cant come forward with Hazard and Willian's threat.

I think teams have learnt to defend our default strategy of getting the full backs forward; we are going to need a plan B if we want more goals.

Please stop with all this plan B crap. Pochettinho has tried numerous systems we just need to recover from injuries hit form and most of all be more clinical

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Onomah is not a winger or wide AM, it's absolutely ridiculous to judge him based on the piss poor opportunities he's had so far.

He's had enough opportunities to show whether he's up to the desired levels. Unfortunately for all concerned he's completely fluffed his audition.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Yeah, because we were so disastrous last season when Eriksen was starting every game.

And you, like many others, seem to equate 'influence' to 'goals scored'. Eriksen's role has changed since he joined us so he's meant to be more of a metronome in the team..

What has last season got to do with this thread?

Agree with you about his supposed new role though.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

What has last season got to do with this thread?

Agree with you about his supposed new role though.

View attachment 27087

You said 'If Eriksen is a "vital cog" then here's what is likely to happen during any game'.

'any game' includes last season.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He's had enough opportunities to show whether he's up to the desired levels. Unfortunately for all concerned he's completely fluffed his audition.

Utter rubbish. The boy's had a mixture of sub minutes totalling 28 minutes in the PL, and had what 3 or 4 starts in mish mash cup sides including away at one of the best teams in Europe. And not one appearance for the senior team has been in his proper position. And he was excellent against Gillingham on one of his few starts.

He's got more natural talent and intelligence than Townsend and he got about 80 appearances and It took Kane about 7 loans, a shitload of cup appearances over three managers, and utter failure of the three guys ahead of him in the pecking order before he even began to get a serous chance and look remotely viable and by then he was a couple of years older than Onomah is now.

You will not see the best of Onomah until he's played in his correct role within a proper first team a few times.

Christ, people are excusing Dembele's recent performances because he "needs a run of games to show his best" and you're writing off s 19yo kid who's had a few ad hoc minutes in mish mash sides. Fucking hell.

He might not make it ultimately but let's at least be fair and realistic about what constitutes a "chance".

 

[DJS]

He's had enough opportunities to show whether he's up to the desired levels. Unfortunately for all concerned he's completely fluffed his audition.

Seriously...?

 

[Ionman34]

He has scored one goal in a dozen games, whether he harasses other teams players or not, that simply is not good enough or indeed i would guess why he was signed in the first place. GKN, Son, Winks. Dembele and Lamela can all hold the ball up and harass the opposition. I am simply asking for a change over the next half dozen games?

One win in ten would suggest that things need to change if not they will categorically remain the same. After all why buy GKN if you have no intention to start him? What pressure is Eriksen under knowing that his place is under no threat?

I don't disagree about a change potentially being necessary, I even suggested it a couple of weeks ago. He didn't have a bad game against Chelsea though, scored and his delivery appears to be improving, so I guess we'll have to see how he goes against Swansea next weekend. If he performs then he merits inclusion, if not then I too will be clamouring for him to take a good rest.