Racist abuse in our stands, we need to face it if it’s there.

[John48]

Identified someone for throwing something at Kapa & banned them!

Still haven't found anyone re the raciest chanting!

 

[poc]

Agreed. I think an issue in this thread is too many people are starting from a position of skeptism about Rudiger's claims. I think, for the reasons you have given, we should treat Rudiger's claims with the principle of charity rather than applying the much tougher legal standard of innocence before guilt for perpetrators.

For good reason though many people here have been to many many football matches and maybe even a few live in the area the collective experiences of this people including myself is that ‘monkey chants’ as the racist action at our stadium would be extremely unlikely, I could believe certain things but that one in particular I just find it very hard to believe. Add to that nothing in the way of video and the club not finding anything yet just increases that feeling I guess.

 

[Gb160]

I think an issue in this thread is too many people are starting from a position of skeptism about Rudiger's claims.

I dont think that's how the thread started, I thought very soon after it happened there would be loads of videos and anecdotal evidence all over social media.

48ish hours later theres been no evidence come to light, apart from Rudiger's allegation and one bloke on twitter from a block where no one else heard it, and the club's findings are inconclusive.
I think it's only natural for people to start becoming skeptical.
And I should point out I don't think anyone has suggested he's lying, just that theres a possibility he mis-heard.

What's surprised me is so many posters who are almost desperate to come across as woke, forfeiting any common sense in the process.
I guess thats just the age we live in.

 

[CowInAComa]

Identified someone for throwing something at Kapa & banned them!

Still haven't found anyone re the raciest chanting!

I'd love to hear some racier chanting.

 

[Styopa]

For good reason though many people here have been to many many football matches and maybe even a few live in the area the collective experiences of this people including myself is that ‘monkey chants’ as the racist action at our stadium would be extremely unlikely, I could believe certain things but that one in particular I just find it very hard to believe. Add to that nothing in the way of video and the club not finding anything yet just increases that feeling I guess.

I agree that monkey chants like we've heard in some stadiums in Europe, would seem extremely unlikely. But Rudiger is claiming it was "a couple of idiots" which is something that I don't find so hard to believe.

In fact I would find it hard to believe that anyone who has watched Tottenham live or at nearby pubs more than a handful of times has not heard racist language of some sort being used by fans.

 

[theShiznit]

As well as the cocktail bar syndrome there's also a thing called pareidolia.

Not saying it definitely is the case here but you can't rule it out. Especially when a lot of similar noise could be heard in the boos.
It's like when people hear the chant like Mooossse for the first time and ask "why are they booing"

If he felt he was under attack it's perfectly reasonable to say he may have been looking for that which he has become accustomed as a professional footballer (a verbal racist attack) that's not to say he made it up. But simply misheard based on previous life experience.

The same could be said of the 1 fan that heard it too. (sad thing is he could be vilified if the claims do proof false/inconclusive)

People are strange creatures. Sometimes we hear/see what we want to hear/see when someone else may hear/see the total opposite... (You just have to look at the Harry Winks or Erik Lamela thread to know that )

 

[ShaunL84]

I think it's obvious what happened.

It was the 'who, who, who, who let the yids out' chant.

That does sound a bit like a monkey chant.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

I dont think that's how the thread started, I thought very soon after it happened there would be loads of videos and anecdotal evidence all over social media.

48ish hours later theres been no evidence come to light, apart from Rudiger's allegation and one bloke on twitter from a block where no one else heard it, and the club's findings are inconclusive.
I think it's only natural for people to start becoming skeptical.
And I should point out I don't think anyone has suggested he's lying, just that theres a possibility he mis-heard.

What's surprised me is so many posters who are almost desperate to come across as woke, forfeiting any common sense in the process.
I guess thats just the age we live in.

Look how quick the images were released of Salah and Sterling being racially abused. They were online within hours.
Not a single image has been posted anywhere of anyone racially abusing Rudiger.

 

[DJS]

I think it's obvious what happened.

It was the 'who, who, who, who let the yids out' chant.

That does sound a bit like a monkey chant.

I was wondering the same myself funnily enough.

 

[buckley]

I have been going since 1951 and hand on heart I have never heard racist chants from our fians and in todays climate you would have to be stupid in the extreme to do so and not get found out in a stadium that has cameras everywhere .
The fact that Rudiger had the same problem in Germany says he has previous for calling out racism .
But I view his claims with scepticism and if there was chants it was " Yids Yids Yids " . You might say why would he make such claims and I would say why would he indeed ? I am white and have 4 children and 6 grandchildren with a mixture of races in the grandchildren and I have no axe to grind . And having been at the match with my two sons and been in touch with friends who attended and none of us heard these chants . It makes me think there is an ulterior motive intros CLAIM.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Enlighten me.. Who's Tommy R and DFLA? Defence League..? Anti-muslim immigration or something like that?

He can't. He's paid the price for ignoring our requests to take it elsewhere. It isn't for in here.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Spurs issue ban to supporter for throwing cup

The Premier League game against Chelsea had a number of flashpoints with tensions boiling over as Son Heung-min was shown a red card.

www.football.london

 

[mil1lion]

I think it's obvious what happened.

It was the 'who, who, who, who let the yids out' chant.

That does sound a bit like a monkey chant.

It seems unlikely that anyone was chanting that at that moment in time. Everyone was booing and shouting at Rudiger because of his antics. I can't imagine fans were responding with that chant.

 

[LeParisien]

I dont think that's how the thread started, I thought very soon after it happened there would be loads of videos and anecdotal evidence all over social media.

48ish hours later theres been no evidence come to light, apart from Rudiger's allegation and one bloke on twitter from a block where no one else heard it, and the club's findings are inconclusive.
I think it's only natural for people to start becoming skeptical.
And I should point out I don't think anyone has suggested he's lying, just that theres a possibility he mis-heard.

What's surprised me is so many posters who are almost desperate to come across as woke, forfeiting any common sense in the process.
I guess thats just the age we live in.

I am not woke and deplore the movement. They have noble aims but actually make many of the same mistakes that their “opponents” make.

You and others in this thread are well-meaning, good people. But you continue to parrot things which are false and have no genuine regard for due process.

- People expressed doubt based off anecdotal evidence in the hours after the game.

- People claimed the club’s investigation had proved inconclusive before it had finished and before the police had reviewed any evidence.

- You claimed that there had been no corroborating evidence for Rudiger’s claim. In this thread are tweets from someone who has said they heard racist abuse and has reported that to the club.

- Many have tried to say the burden of proof should fall on other parties, even though the club and the police are leading the investigation and take full responsibility. @Shadydan had the good grace to say he misspoke on this point and I respect that. Other have yet to do so.

All of these things can clearly be found in this thread and are evidence that not everyone is keen for the process to be complete before casting doubt on these serious claims of racist abuse. This creates an impression that defending the club is more important than tackling racism. It isn’t and that has nothing to do with wokeness.

 

[Gb160]

I am not woke and deplore the movement. They have noble aims but actually make many of the same mistakes that their “opponents” make.

You and others in this thread are well-meaning, good people. But you continue to parrot things which are false and have no genuine regard for due process.

- People expressed doubt based off anecdotal evidence in the hours after the game.

- People claimed the club’s investigation had proved inconclusive before it had finished and before the police had reviewed any evidence.

- You claimed that there had been no corroborating evidence for Rudiger’s claim. In this thread are tweets from someone who has said they heard racist abuse and has reported that to the club.

- Many have tried to say the burden of proof should fall on other parties, even though the club and the police are leading the investigation and take full responsibility. @Shadydan had the good grace to say he misspoke on this point and I respect that. Other have yet to do so.

All of these things can clearly be found in this thread and are evidence that not everyone is keen for the process to be complete before casting doubt on these serious claims of racist abuse. This creates an impression that defending the club is more important than tackling racism. It isn’t and that has nothing to do with wokeness.

Surely this cuts both ways though?
Surely all the woke people should've kept their powder dry before hilariously stating how embarrassed and ashamed they are of the club, and how we need to take responsibility for these morons, before this investigation was complete?

 

[LeParisien]

Surely this cuts both ways though?
Surely all the woke people should've kept their powder dry before hilariously stating how embarrassed and ashamed they are of the club, and how we need to take responsibility for these morons, before this investigation was complete?

Youre now using « Woke » to just mean « antiracist » which is troubling. Instead of meaningless dog whistle phrases like « woke » which only encourage people to take entrenched positions, we should stick to the issues.

But yes - I agree it cuts both ways. Some people definitely overreacted. This does not make our club racist and we don’t need to feel ashamed. We need to take strong action and speak out against this sort of behaviour where we see it. It is our response that defines who we are as a club, not the behaviour of a minority of idiots.

 

[worcestersauce]

I have been going since 1951 and hand on heart I have never heard racist chants from our fians and in todays climate you would have to be stupid in the extreme to do so and not get found out in a stadium that has cameras everywhere .
The fact that Rudiger had the same problem in Germany says he has previous for calling out racism .
But I view his claims with scepticism and if there was chants it was " Yids Yids Yids " . You might say why would he make such claims and I would say why would he indeed ? I am white and have 4 children and 6 grandchildren with a mixture of races in the grandchildren and I have no axe to grind . And having been at the match with my two sons and been in touch with friends who attended and none of us heard these chants . It makes me think there is an ulterior motive intros CLAIM.

I've been going since 67 and I can honestly say that I have never seen or heard monkey chanting at the Spurs.

 

[gaffers]

Rudiger made it up like he did against Roma. He'd been done for feigning broken ribs just before, con artist

 

[riggi]

Block 251 same as you.

Thought you were my way for some reason. You change seats?

 

[buckley]

Wow I must be going deaf . IF you hear these noises point it out to the stewards and they I am sure will deal with it and shame on you for not reporting these incidents before as I can only assume that you did not report it otherwise I am sure Levy would have been on the rampage.
If I had heard these shouts I would have been reporting them immediately and if I saw the offenders I would have pointed them out.