Player Watch - Carlos Vinícius

[Thenewcat]

Early days but I struggle to recall many performances from Llorente, Janssen or Soldado that were as well rounded as Vinicius was tonight, even against easier opposition (not that LASK were a walkover).

If he keeps this up then he certainly looks much better value than plenty of other players in that price range (Joelinton, Haller, etc).

Llorente at Ajax was a pretty good performance. Your general point is correct though

 

[Shadydan]

Take a shot every time you see someone put 'early days' on this site.

Dead by Monday

 

[Timberwolf]

Llorente at Ajax was a pretty good performance. Your general point is correct though

True, although the exception proves the rule. It took about 18 months for Llorente to do anything of note at Spurs (legendary though it was).

 

[spurs9]

No offence, and it was a promising start but.

18 goals is decent in 34 games but even though he was joint top scorer with Pizzi and Mahdi Taremi. It is the lowest scoring top scorer in the league since 2007/2008 and a much worse record, then say someone like Dost (who for me is the definition of average but reliable striker). There is also the fact that he essentially flopped at Napoli and then at Monaco , and that was only two seasons ago.

I'm not trying to say he isn't very good I'm very excited about him, he looks built for the PL and looks to have everything we need. But, it's not incredible that he is our back up and I suspect that no team of our status would risk buying him as their number 1 on the back of what was his first successful full season at any club (of course there are mitigating factors, reality is he was a very late bloomer who had an unusual route to the top of the game). There is nothing surprising that he is our backup and there is also a reason we haven't bought him outright. But I am impressed with his performance today and fully believe he has all the tools necessary to be a hit.

Carlos played 1047 mins less than Pizzi (his mins work out to be 62% compared to what Pizzi's played) and 6 of Pizzi's goals were penalties, 0 of CV's were.

Mahdi Taremi played 572 mins more than CV and 7 of his goals were penalties.

He didn't flop at Napoli, they bought him to loan him out, he did well on loan and they quadrupled the money they spent on him in 1 season.

At Monaco, he wasn't given a chance. When he joined them, they were in disarray, close to being relegated and their best performing player (one of the only performing players) was their striker. Even then he scored or assists every 127 mins, which was a better rate than Kane last season.

Context is everything.

 

[yusrisafri]

Looks another happy character too which I like. Face lit up after those assists. If that header had come to him later in the game after he'd had a few decent touches I'm sure he would've buried it.

Can only get better with more minutes and sharpness.
Look forward to seeing him playing in other combinations.

Nice to know we don't have to grind Son and Kane into the ground anymore.

But Jose wants c**ts, not happy characters

 

[Timberwolf]

Take a shot every time you see someone put 'early days' on this site.

Dead by Monday

I wouldn't be on SC if I wasn't fickle as fuck.

 

[yusrisafri]

That header down to Sonny was pure sex.

Gilzean-ish

 

[SpursTillIDie1882]

He made a great account of himself in the game, we can see that there is more to come from him also. His awareness and assist potential was very clear tonight, shame he didnt get the goal with the header. He looks a great foil/target man for moura and son by utilizing their pace/speed , who can hold the ball up and play them in with good passes. His strength is evident and does look to work hard off the ball too, i looked forward to seeing more of him.

 

[C0YS]

Carlos played 1047 mins less than Pizzi (his mins work out to be 62% compared to what Pizzi's played) and 6 of Pizzi's goals were penalties, 0 of CV's were.

Mahdi Taremi played 572 mins more than CV and 7 of his goals were penalties.

He didn't flop at Napoli, they bought him to loan him out, he did well on loan and they quadrupled the money they spent on him in 1 season.

At Monaco, he wasn't given a chance. When he joined them, they were in disarray, close to being relegated and their best performing player (one of the only performing players) was their striker. Even then he scored or assists every 127 mins, which was a better rate than Kane last season.

Context is everything.

OK. Pizzi is also a midfielder, so it's really not a good comparison. But his stats were good. Not that goal stats are a particularly useful measure in determining success in other leagues, My point is simply that a major team would not sign him to be their main striker. That's an over the top assessment.

He didn't flop at Napoli, no, flop is harsh. But they didn't deem him good enough to be worth keeping, and this is a team who did need cover in that position. That's sort of the point I'm making. He had chances to impress at two top 5 league clubs neither were convinced in signing him. That is a concern to take into account. You can then look deeper and say, oh actually it's not too bad and add caveats, like not enough game time etc. But it is still something to take into account. The logic is, if they are good enough, they would establish themselves there.

You can also put other caveats that prove the opposite point, like Dost had incredible stats in the same division but has always looked average every other league he's played in. Or that CV scored only 4 goals in the last 14 games and actually ended up losing his hard earned starting spot as a result of this poor form.

The thing is, stats are not a determining factor in making the right signing, nor is being a hit everywhere needed. My point is that there is enough doubt to say that this isn't a player that you would expect big clubs would try and sign as a first pick striker. He isn't. But that doesn't mean he can't prove himself to be that striker, or that he isn't a very good player. My post was specifically targeted to the claim that it's surprising we managed to get such a talent as back up. Because it really isn't, in fact his profile is exactly what you would expect a top club to pick up as a backup.

 

[spurs9]

OK. Pizzi is also a midfielder, so it's really not a good comparison. But his stats were good. Not that goal stats are a particularly useful measure in determining success in other leagues, My point is simply that a major team would not sign him to be their main striker. That's an over the top assessment.

He didn't flop at Napoli, no, flop is harsh. But they didn't deem him good enough to be worth keeping, and this is a team who did need cover in that position. That's sort of the point I'm making. He had chances to impress at two top 5 league clubs neither were convinced in signing him. That is a concern to take into account. You can then look deeper and say, oh actually it's not too bad and add caveats, like not enough game time etc. But it is still something to take into account. The logic is, if they are good enough, they would establish themselves there.

You can also put other caveats that prove the opposite point, like Dost had incredible stats in the same division but has always looked average every other league he's played in. Or that CV scored only 4 goals in the last 14 games and actually ended up losing his hard earned starting spot as a result of this poor form.

The thing is, stats are not a determining factor in making the right signing, nor is being a hit everywhere needed. My point is that there is enough doubt to say that this isn't a player that you would expect big clubs would try and sign as a first pick striker. He isn't. But that doesn't mean he can't prove himself to be that striker, or that he isn't a very good player. My post was specifically targeted to the claim that it's surprising we managed to get such a talent as back up. Because it really isn't, in fact his profile is exactly what you would expect a top club to pick up as a backup.

We didn't sign him to be our main striker though.

He didn't have chances to impress in 2 top 5 leagues though. In France, he made 3 starts, due to Monaco's only good player being their striker (who finished joint 5th scorer in the league). At Napoli, they had Milik and Mertens, who had scored 17 and 16 goals respectively the season before, as well as Insigne, who the rotated in the front 2 and had just signed Lorzano (who they occasionally play upfront). They only brought in Llorente in as Milik got injured at the start of the season.

Fair enough, as a first choice striker, he wouldn't have been at the top of the list for many top clubs, but neither was Drogba when he went to Chelsea.

 

[Sweech]

Very promising performance. Such a shame he messed up that header but didn’t knock his confidence.
2 assists.

It’s funny that for a guy who is as tall as he is (6’3”+) his highlights didn’t really have any headed goals. The headed assist for Son was probably the best thing I’ve seen him do with his head from all the YouTube clips I saw of him.

 

[JCRD]

I wont be hyperbolic about his performance but I like this guy. Not necessarily because I think he will set the world alight (he wont) but i just like how he played, like he looked reliable and thats what we need. We didnt need another Kane per se, we just wanted someone who will be able to be our focal point and just look somewhat of a threat which he did

I really like this guy and he seems like a great guy - humble is the word... and thats a good trait needed to work hard which he clearly did

 

[NorthernYido]

2 very classy assists showing great awareness and intelligence. Had it in my head that he was a speedster. Think he's more in the mould of Kane albeit many years behind. Good debut

 

[hughy]

Love it when players play with a smile.

 

[EQP]

He's happy to be here and will probably give his all and force our hand to make the deal permanent.

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Early days, but now reading back the first few pages of this thread is hilarious

 

[nailsy]

Bit of a humblebrag but I’ve had sex and it was much worse than that header.

Did you drop the soap? Thinking about it your username makes sense now.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Kane's replacement...

 

[JCRD]

Take a shot every time you see someone put 'early days' on this site.

Dead by Monday

What would be more fun is having a shot every time Bale says 'and yeah'

That would be fun

 

[SlotBadger]

Did you drop the soap?

Drop? Yes. Accidentally? No.