Our "Scattergun" Transfer Approach

[hellava_tough]

Why his history with Mourinho ?

Well they had a big falling out and then Mourinho was slagging him off earlier in the season calling him immature, because of the way AVB supposedly handled the split when they were at Inter.

It's got to be added pressure when your mentor, who's also world famous, is calling you out in the tabloids who have already crucified you previously.

 

[Dr Know]

I've said it all along. Any manager out there would feel like they've won the lotto if they got the call from Levy to manage Spurs. Rather than pissing about looking for players, they could focus on putting this jigsaw together. I really don't think we need much. Definitely a LB, could do with another CB and if a fantastic deal came along for a CF then why not

I'm excited about next season but worried at the same time as to the TS situation. He seems very confident that he's going to be here next season and even if he remains in a different capacity it's still a concern for me

 

[TheGreenLily]

I've read an awful lot (since it's all gone wrong, at least) on here and in the press about how last summer's transfer approach was "scattergun" leaving us with an average and unbalanced squad. I confess that I am one of the many people who couldn't believe what was happening when we were spending the Bale money and could only foresee good things for this season. Ok, I was somewhat wrong there but I'm still baffled by the aforementioned accusation as to me there was a very clear plan to our transfers.

We start with a small analysis of AVB's system and how he deployed it (with much success) at Porto.

As we know, it was a very clear 4-3-3 with the front six usually consisting of the following:

------------Fernando------------
-----Guarin-------Moutinho-----
-----------------------------------
Hulk-----------------------Varela
--------------Falcao--------------
​

As we know though, modern football is concerned more with roles than positions, so a quick reminder of those is in order...
Fernando - DM. Protect the defence, win ball, pass simple. When attacking, drop in between the centre backs allowing the full backs to get forward.
Guarin - Box to box midfielder, defensively sound while offering attacking threat.
Moutinho - Playmaker. Take ball from less technically able players and make things happen, either through passing or by carrying the ball forward.
Hulk - Inverted wide forward. Drift inside as much as possible to support the striker and offer a goal threat.
Varela - Inverted winger. Stay wider but seek to offer more creativity than the battering ram on the other side.
Falcao - No.9. Make space for others with clever running. Loiter in and around the box. Score.

Now, consider the midfielders and forwards that we ended last season with:

Sandro
Huddlestone
Livermore
Parker
Dembélé
Holtby
Carroll
Lennon
Bale
Bentley
Sigurđsson
Falqué
Townsend
Adebayor
Dempsey
Kane

Out of that lot, the closest we could have got to the Porto system was probably:

-------------Sandro-------------
----Dembélé-----Huddlestone--
-----------------------------------
Bale-----------------------Falqué
------------Adebayor--------------
​

Not bad, but hardly going to set the world alight (especially with uncertainty over Sandro's return and Bale's future). Not only that, but the backup is far from stellar (Parker in place of Sandro? Livermore for Dembélé? Dempsey for Adebayor?)

So let's consider the transfers:
Out
Huddlestone - Good passer of the ball, but not overly creative or quick thinking. Reasonable sale for good money.
Livermore - Jack of all trades, master of none. Passable backup to either Sandro or Dembélé but certainly possible to improve upon. Reasonable loan/sale for good money.
Parker - Had seemingly lost the plot. Great bloke but needed to be improved upon. Reasonable sale for good money.
Bale - Ultimately unavoidable.
Bentley - Would anyone have kept him?!
Dempsey - Decent player who scored a fair few goals but doesn't really fit the system. Reasonable sale for good money.
Carroll/Falqué - Reasonable loans for first team football.

So what were we left needing?

1. A quality box to box midfielder to rotate with Dembélé (who we knew would miss games through his hip injury).
2. A quality DM to rotate with Sandro (who had an extremely serious injury).
3. A quality playmaker with the ability to both pass and drive forward with the ball.
4. Wide players to fulfil both the a) Hulk and b) Varela roles.
5. An intelligent penalty box striker to replace/rotate with Adebayor who had had a stinker of a season.

And what did we get?

1. Paulinho - A nailed on Brazilian international starter. Best player at the Confederations Cup.
2. Capoue - Those on here who watch Ligue 1 were extremely excited about this signing. Few doubted his quality before his injury.
3. Eriksen - Pretty much the most highly rated young playmaker in Europe with another (Holtby) in reserve.
4. This is where things alter slightly. Presumably due to the availability of players, the roles switched flanks and we bought in a) Chadli and b) Lamela. Some were underwhelmed with the Chadli signing but when you consider his physical attributes and positional abilities he fits that Hulk role very well. Lamela was one of the most highly rated young players in the world and had just top-scored in Serie A. Very skilful and creative, he fits that Varela role perfectly.
5. Soldado. Knew where the goal was. Runs well. Scored goals. About the best we could have hoped for.

Suddenly, we're in a position to field:

------------Sandro------------
---Paulinho--------Eriksen----
--------------------------------
Lamela------------------Chadli
------------Soldado------------
​

or in the worst injury crisis:

------------Capoue------------
---Dembélé---------Holtby----
---------------------------------
Townsend------------Sigurđsson
------------Adebayor------------
​

I am surely not the only person that can see significant improvement there, not only in personnel but also in suitability for the system. Hardly "scattergun".

I think Baldini did an overall superb job. The only mystery is why AVB didn't practise the system that he preached now that he had been provided with the personnel.

Re: the defence. If AVB didn't fancy Caulker, why not replace him with Romania's captain while making a profit? Only 4 CB's you say? Capoue had played perfectly well there in the past. The only problem was LB, but how did we know that Jan was going to be such a gimp about being asked to play there? Rose had just had a pretty good season on loan at Sunderland and had earnt his chance just as Walker had done before him. I'm in the Naughton-supporter ranks and think he is more than adequate cover for Walker (who rarely gets injured or requires a rest anyway).

And that is why I keep posting this in team in team against threads.

In fact, I remember posting this formation in our strongest team formation.

Just goes to show what a mess we are in, when I can see this, but our managers can't.

Here is hoping for a manager with a bit of brains and for Levy to get his head out of his ass and actually support him.

 

[TheGreenLily]

Agree with OP

i still believe the signings are good, only soldado may struggle unless we really start playing like a Spanish team

It doesn't have to be Spanish, just a team with more than a billionth of a gram of intelligence and common sense. A team that is not 100% static, a team that gets basic training of passing and moving, play balls into channels knowing that others will run on to the ball, a settled side that can learn each others game and the removal of clueless wonders like Lennon, Townsend, Rose.... and the list goes on.

 

[Grey Fox]

A couple of points;

The OP is right about the formation that AVB wanted, but he misses out the key point that AVB, indeed nearly everyone at the club , expected Bale to be at the club for one more season. He had been "promised" by Levy he would stay. Right up to the South Africa tour AVB was planning the squad with Bale in it, hence me betting A&C's bollocks on it . Soldado and Paulinho were sold on coming to the club on the back of him staying and most of the other incomings were lined up with that in mind.

No wonder then that AVB struggled to reinvent the way we played when the key component was taken away. Its media bollocks that we were spending the Bale money before he went (apart from possibly Lamela). Levy/ the club had put £70M aside to invest in the squad, knowing that the TV and even a £40m deal for Bale the next summer would more than cover it.

Its also no wonder that AVB lost it with those inside the club including Sherwood when he felt he could trust no one. If LVG comes in there will have to be wholesale changes in the way footballing decisions are made in the club and who by or there will be an almighty train crash.

Secondly

I really don't get this Jan hate. Again he came to a club that was selling him a five year plan, with Bale in the team and promises money would be spent on improvements. He came from a winning side and playing for one of the best coached international teams in the world at the moment with bags of talented players. For most of this season he has been landed with a load of dross at the back, Dawson ( I love the man), but a headless chicken at times, Rose and Naughton, probably the worst two full backs in the top half of the table and with out Sandro or Capoue playing no real protection in front of him. The man is a winner and wants to win things and sees absolute shit going on around him and within the club, I would feel really pissed off to, but to say he doesn't care is rubbish. Before his injury against Liverpool he was battling for every ball and got injured doing so. Him and Kaboul are an excellent pairing and IMHO anyone wanting rid of that sort of talent want their heads looking at, would you really want Dawson up and at um approach rather than a CB who would be welcomed with open arms at pretty much any top team in Europe? Do me a favour.

 

[van_Pommel]

Agree with OP. I have no idea why AVB insisted in playing 4231. We were toothless in that formation.

 

[CheeseGromit]

I certainly support the OP's opinion in the opening post. And I agree with GF regarding Bale ( I dont think we can blame Levy as bale wanted to go full stop)

The conundrum that follows is that the team is not just about the individual and their ability but about team dynamics. Recruiting so many from outside the prem was the challenge, we hope short term stuttering for long term gain Age is on the side of most of the signings. Will this group ever really gel or are their divisions that will not easily heal. Things we dont know.

For me not only did AVB get sidetracked by how to play he tried to involve the whole squad in all the games. Maybe because he didnt feel he knew them well enough but he really should have selected a league side and a cup side. His cup side would be the replacements ( subs) during the league games enabling them to gain experience and understand the intensity of the league. It would not have been easy to manage especially in the beginning but games came thick and fast and a modicum of success would have encouraged the whole club.

We do have a good selection of players for next season but they wont work in Sherwood's model which is akin to route 1 football where possession is not really key (BBurn Rovers style?) or for another manager who does not want to play the way the players had been bought to exceute so on that basis change is needed any way

I happen to think Walker is OK with proper selection of those in front of him, Playing with Townsend so far as looked vulnerable. Rose clearly is young inexperienced and suffering from a lack of confidence. More would be got out of Rose with judicious selection of the player in front of him. Picking Eriksen on the left side and giving him a free role exacerbates Roses situation. Fyers is in the same boat so a more experienced prem defensive player is needed.

I am very hopeful ( is that just optimism or shacking of this season) that a player or two with the right manager will see us back in the hunt next season. A word of warning though as one of the cricket commentators said of the England cricket team confidence takes a lot longer to regain that it does to lose. Teams will be be more optimistic against us next season.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I agree with this, we missed out on moutinho ok gutted, doesn't mean you can't find a similar player to perform that role. Instead avb wanted paulinho, completely different type of player.

according to Jason burt avb's plan for this season was keep bale and sign hulk, paulinho, villa and coentrao, avb wasn't looking to play 433

But Paulinho easily fits into a 4-3-3 as the box to box midfielder, so playing a midfield 3 of Paulinho - Sandro - Eriksen wouldn't be a problem. We played well against Arsenal at the Emirates with a midfield 3 of Paulinho - Capoue - Dembele, the only thing that was really missing was some creativity, put Eriksen in that midfield for either Paulinho or Dembele and that would instantly add some extra flair to our passing albeit making us a bit lighter defensively.

I don't understand why AVB went on about Eriksen being a pure no 10 when he always played in a midfield 3 for Ajax, often dropping into the central defensive midfield position and picking up the ball from the centre backs. Our midfield along with players like Holtby (wrongly loaned out) is so much suited to a 4-3-3 it's unreal. Yet we keep working with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 variant where the player roles are very different. Tim always used a 4-3-3 for the development squads and AVB used a 4-3-3 at Porto yet we keep fudging around with different systems and the players don't seem to know what they're doing.

While our defence usually picks itself, it's our midfield and attack that has been a mess all season when it should have been straight forward.

Starting lineup:

Paulinho - Sandro - Eriksen
Lamela - Ade - Chadli​

Give them a run of games to gel and see how they get on, if any of the above are injured or form drops, replace with:

Dembele - Capoue - Holtby/Sig
Lennon/Townsend - Soldado - Lennon/Townsend
​

It's really that simple for me and I just can't understand for the life of me how these highly paid managers and coaches have got it so wrong so many times.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well they had a big falling out and then Mourinho was slagging him off earlier in the season calling him immature, because of the way AVB supposedly handled the split when they were at Inter.

It's got to be added pressure when your mentor, who's also world famous, is calling you out in the tabloids who have already crucified you previously.

Can't see that that would make choose 4231 over 433 though ?

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

great read, your 2 improved line ups are the way I thought we would line up maybe one or 2 changes but pretty much bang on

 

[mill]

But Paulinho easily fits into a 4-3-3 as the box to box midfielder, so playing a midfield 3 of Paulinho - Sandro - Eriksen wouldn't be a problem. We played well against Arsenal at the Emirates with a midfield 3 of Paulinho - Capoue - Dembele, the only thing that was really missing was some creativity, put Eriksen in that midfield for either Paulinho or Dembele and that would instantly add some extra flair to our passing albeit making us a bit lighter defensively.

I don't understand why AVB went on about Eriksen being a pure no 10 when he always played in a midfield 3 for Ajax, often dropping into the central defensive midfield position and picking up the ball from the centre backs. Our midfield along with players like Holtby (wrongly loaned out) is so much suited to a 4-3-3 it's unreal. Yet we keep working with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 variant where the player roles are very different. Tim always used a 4-3-3 for the development squads and AVB used a 4-3-3 at Porto yet we keep fudging around with different systems and the players don't seem to know what they're doing.

While our defence usually picks itself, it's our midfield and attack that has been a mess all season when it should have been straight forward.

Starting lineup:

Paulinho - Sandro - Eriksen
Lamela - Ade - Chadli​

Give them a run of games to gel and see how they get on, if any of the above are injured or form drops, replace with:

Dembele - Capoue - Holtby/Sig
Lennon/Townsend - Soldado - Lennon/Townsend
​

It's really that simple for me and I just can't understand for the life of me how these highly paid managers and coaches have got it so wrong so many times.

I agree about paulinho. The point I was making was that imo he abandoned the idea of 433 when he couldn't get moutinho and went a different way completely

 

[mill]

A couple of points;

The OP is right about the formation that AVB wanted, but he misses out the key point that AVB, indeed nearly everyone at the club , expected Bale to be at the club for one more season. He had been "promised" by Levy he would stay. Right up to the South Africa tour AVB was planning the squad with Bale in it, hence me betting A&C's bollocks on it . Soldado and Paulinho were sold on coming to the club on the back of him staying and most of the other incomings were lined up with that in mind.

No wonder then that AVB struggled to reinvent the way we played when the key component was taken away. Its media bollocks that we were spending the Bale money before he went (apart from possibly Lamela). Levy/ the club had put £70M aside to invest in the squad, knowing that the TV and even a £40m deal for Bale the next summer would more than cover it.

Its also no wonder that AVB lost it with those inside the club including Sherwood when he felt he could trust no one. If LVG comes in there will have to be wholesale changes in the way footballing decisions are made in the club and who by or there will be an almighty train crash.

Secondly

I really don't get this Jan hate. Again he came to a club that was selling him a five year plan, with Bale in the team and promises money would be spent on improvements. He came from a winning side and playing for one of the best coached international teams in the world at the moment with bags of talented players. For most of this season he has been landed with a load of dross at the back, Dawson ( I love the man), but a headless chicken at times, Rose and Naughton, probably the worst two full backs in the top half of the table and with out Sandro or Capoue playing no real protection in front of him. The man is a winner and wants to win things and sees absolute shit going on around him and within the club, I would feel really pissed off to, but to say he doesn't care is rubbish. Before his injury against Liverpool he was battling for every ball and got injured doing so. Him and Kaboul are an excellent pairing and IMHO anyone wanting rid of that sort of talent want their heads looking at, would you really want Dawson up and at um approach rather than a CB who would be welcomed with open arms at pretty much any top team in Europe? Do me a favour.

Er the op is saying we're perfectly set up for the 433 even without bale, avb's choice not to play it, that's got nothing to do with bale being sold

 

[Grey Fox]

Er the op is saying we're perfectly set up for the 433 even without bale, avb's choice not to play it, that's got nothing to do with bale being sold

Not sure how you don't realise the difference Bale would have made to that system and how much AVB would have used him to slowly intergrate the new boys into both the club and the system and how much confidence Bale gave to everyone around him

 

[eddiebailey]

We do have a good selection of players for next season but they wont work in Sherwood's model which is akin to route 1 football where possession is not really key

I do not disagree with most of your post, but while Tim has mixed it up more than AVB, he clearly wants to play possession football. This is what he has preached throughout his time at the club technical co-ordinator, and is why our development squad consists of technically gifted midgets like rather than the physically precocious specimens generally favoured by British clubs.

The problem is more that we just do not have the players to play possession football because they do not move the ball quickly or incisively enough. Play possession football with a midfield as ponderous as Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho and you are going to get the static lack of penetration we saw under AVB. Something AVB himself recognised in his frustration at not being able to bring in Moutinho.

Having experimented with playing Eriksen out of position, Tim brought Bentaleb in, again not in his best position, precisely because he wanted someone who could recycle possession quickly and incisively. He has also said that next season Tom Carroll will be back at Spurs, and I think that is as clear an indication of how Tim wants us to play as any.

 

[mill]

Not sure how you don't realise the difference Bale would have made to that system and how much AVB would have used him to slowly intergrate the new boys into both the club and the system and how much confidence Bale gave to everyone around him

Bale would have improved us massively in just about any system we played, there's a reason he's the most expensive player in the world.

We all know avb wanted hulk, if he got him how would the 433 work? Bale had already come out and said he told avb he no longer wanted to play on the left and playing hulk there would've nullified the strongest part of his game

 

[StanSpur]

Not a popular route for transfers but i do feel there are a few freebies out there worth taking a look at and it is something under FFP that the club should make genuine efforts to scout good talent. Obvioulsy the majority of players on the free list are on the wrong side of 30 but there are a few Campbell-esq opportunities for good players who are not playing at very good clubs. Trawling through transfermkt it was quite shocking a) how many ex spurs players there are floating about looking for work this summer b) how many QPR players ending contracts c) how many players that i remember coming up through the youth ranks that are now mid 30s! d) how many really old goalkeepers there are still trying to play e.g. Ian Bennett

That said i do think there are a couple of options to fill squad places without using the funds we will need to add quality to the first XI

GKs - biggest name is Valdes but...... we are Spurs so. How about Kasper Schmeichel or even Paul Robinson to replace Brad. I think Kasper would be a good option at 27 with a good 5-7 years left and could be emergency cover if Hugo does get snatched and nobody else comes in (Robbo not so much but good benchwarmer i'd imagine)

Defence - I've heard this lad Younès Kaboul isn't bad and at 28 hitting his prime...... Seriously though Lescott is not many peoples favourites but for free would he be a bad addition to the squad? Also Alex at PSG? The desperate need for LBs drags up old Cashley and Evra, i think the former would never come whilst the latter will be heading abroad so not much in that market.

Midfield - not much here but i would be interested in looking at [URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/diego-poyet/transfers/spieler_183286.html']Diego Poyet. At 18 and free it looks like a no brainer, if he's got something great, if not no loss. I've seen some talk about Lampard etc but i just dont see that as feasible or cost effective to us so didn't entertain it. The top value player on a free is Jérémy Ménez from PSG - i know little about this player other than he plays on the right and is a good age so cannot comment[URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/paul-robinson/transfers/spieler_3630.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/ian-bennett/transfers/spieler_3299.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/youns-kaboul/transfers/spieler_27114.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/patrice-evra/transfers/spieler_5285.html'] of if he's a good fit or if he will get offers from better teams. There are old favs like Diego or Gomis too but some convos should not be stirred up.[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
[URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/diego-poyet/transfers/spieler_183286.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/paul-robinson/transfers/spieler_3630.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/ian-bennett/transfers/spieler_3299.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/youns-kaboul/transfers/spieler_27114.html'][URL='http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/patrice-evra/transfers/spieler_5285.html']
Anyway just my opinion that despite the hunt for performing, expensive tallent that we will no doubt tell all press we are doing, i think there is some good business we should look at in the free market.[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

 

[King of the Lane]

Not a popular route for transfers but i do feel there are a few freebies out there worth taking a look at and it is something under FFP that the club should make genuine efforts to scout good talent. Obvioulsy the majority of players on the free list are on the wrong side of 30 but there are a few Campbell-esq opportunities for good players who are not playing at very good clubs. Trawling through transfermkt it was quite shocking a) how many ex spurs players there are floating about looking for work this summer b) how many QPR players ending contracts c) how many players that i remember coming up through the youth ranks that are now mid 30s! d) how many really old goalkeepers there are still trying to play e.g. Ian Bennett

That said i do think there are a couple of options to fill squad places without using the funds we will need to add quality to the first XI

GKs - biggest name is Valdes but...... we are Spurs so. How about Kasper Schmeichel or even Paul Robinson to replace Brad. I think Kasper would be a good option at 27 with a good 5-7 years left and could be emergency cover if Hugo does get snatched and nobody else comes in (Robbo not so much but good benchwarmer i'd imagine)
Defence - I've heard this lad Younès Kaboul isn't bad and at 28 hitting his prime...... Seriously though Lescott is not many peoples favourites but for free would he be a bad addition to the squad? Also Alex at PSG? The desperate need for LBs drags up old Cashley and Evra, i think the former would never come whilst the latter will be heading abroad so not much in that market.

Midfield - not much here but i would be interested in looking at Diego Poyet. At 18 and free it looks like a no brainer, if he's got something great, if not no loss. I've seen some talk about Lampard etc but i just dont see that as feasible or cost effective to us so didn't entertain it. The top value player on a free is Jérémy Ménez from PSG - i know little about this player other than he plays on the right and is a good age so cannot comment of if he's a good fit or if he will get offers from better teams. There are old favs like Diego or Gomis too but some convos should not be stirred up.
Anyway just my opinion that despite the hunt for performing, expensive tallent that we will no doubt tell all press we are doing, i think there is some good business we should look at in the free market.

My ideal transfers would be Lukaku, Konoplyanka, Daley Blind (covers both DM and LB) and either Lescott or bring back Caulker.

 

[robin09]

Very good post OP. When you see it like that, the policy made more sense.

I was over the moon to be signing shiny new players. But I felt we overloaded on wingers who aren't wingers, but that ideal formation would probably work well. Just incredibly frustrating we're almost at the end of the season and haven't seen it given a run of games.

 

[Nocando]

And that is why I keep posting this in team in team against threads.

In fact, I remember posting this formation in our strongest team formation.

Just goes to show what a mess we are in, when I can see this, but our managers can't.
.

You must be one hell of a guy. Your talents really are wasted in your current role.

 

[StanSpur]

My ideal transfers would be Lukaku, Konoplyanka, Daley Blind (covers both DM and LB) and either Lescott or bring back Caulker.

All good choices but we need at least 1 keeper too (and i think the first 2 you mentioned are not in our league)