Our "Scattergun" Transfer Approach

[eddiebailey]

The logic of the signings was obvious enough, and the team looks good on paper, it just seems that we failed to factor in the human element.

Most were young players moving to a new country in which some did not speak the language, playing in a league that was faster and more powerful and above all more competitive than anything most of them were used to. And in a squad stripped of leadership and experience.

If anything it is to AVB's credit that he attempted where possible to bleed the new signings into the team slowly.

 

[shelfboy68]

Yeah, I've been rather disgusted by Jan's demeanour this season and don't really care if he does one. We certainly shouldn't be looking to make a lot of changes but when do we ever do what we should?

Your right enough there.

 

[spurs9]

Possibly although in Jan's case he can fuck off I've gone right off him his body language and attitude stinks shame as I used to rate him as for paulinho yes I think so.
Trouble is we don't want to much being shifted or we will be in the same shit as this year.

You must have never had an aggressive fucktard boss that you think doesn't have a clue at what he is doing and blames everyone else for his mistakes. I have in the past and it is very difficult to perform at your job and smiling is almost impossible. Different people handle/express it in different ways, many in my team (not a sports team by the way) looked/acted the way Verts did yet when the boss left every ones attitude changed, happiness came back, performances improved. If he stays, and Tim goes give him a season to see how/if his attitude changes before you judge him.

 

[shelfboy68]

You must have never had an aggressive fucktard boss that you think doesn't have a clue at what he is doing and blames everyone else for his mistakes. I have in the past and it is very difficult to perform at your job and smiling is almost impossible. Different people handle/express it in different ways, many in my team (not a sports team by the way) looked/acted the way Verts did yet when the boss left every ones attitude changed, happiness came back, performances improved. If he stays, and Tim goes give him a season to see how/if his attitude changes before you judge him.

I think he will look for a move anyway regardless but if he stays then we will see how he performs as we can't afford to much upheaval again.

 

[eddiebailey]

Vertonghen had made up his mind that his future did not lie at Spurs in pre-season.

 

[DiscoD1882]

Quite simply the best OP I've have read this year. Balanced. Thought through. And pretty much nailed on.


Can't help making me feel

1) sad we have done nothing with the talent we have bought
2) VERY optimistic about next season.

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

You must have never had an aggressive fucktard boss that you think doesn't have a clue at what he is doing and blames everyone else for his mistakes. I have in the past and it is very difficult to perform at your job and smiling is almost impossible. Different people handle/express it in different ways, many in my team (not a sports team by the way) looked/acted the way Verts did yet when the boss left every ones attitude changed, happiness came back, performances improved. If he stays, and Tim goes give him a season to see how/if his attitude changes before you judge him.

He was captain at Ajax. It isn't captain behaviour at all. This is a time when he should be rallying and getting everyone going for the sake of himself and his teammates. To be so visibly disinterested simply doesn't help anyone, including himself, and just makes him look mentally weak.

I'm sure even if you were all miserable at your office that if a crowd came to watch you work, you'd pull your socks up, even if only for yourself.

 

[Macspur261]

Watching some of the best CL teams, I still feel our coaching is dismal.

Under AVB possession was paramount, and quite rightly, but what we did when in possession was dire and unimaginative.
The only time a formation should mean anything as far as I can see is when possession is lost, but our football in possession lacks any sort of purpose or imagination, Ade pulls wide and no one fills in his position in the centre, so he crosses to no one, players pass and stand still to admire their work, Lennon or Townsend may swap wings, whoop de whoop.

I'm not sure if we need a top class manager ( of which there seem to be few ) or a set of top class coaches, not mates of mates.

 

[tototoner]

A well constructed OP but if they were exactly the players the manager ( Villas-Boas) needed and fitted into previous systems he employed why didn't he use them as such and why did we look so slow, cumbersome and toothless.

As for the English gutter press and Media all seven were signed from abroad and all seven never played in the "best league in the world innit" before so automatically that means they will be underrated and undermined by the media and press, I honestly think that is why Ronaldo is admired more here than Messi, because he played in the English league.

 

[idontgetit]

A well constructed OP but if they were exactly the players the manager ( Villas-Boas) needed and fitted into previous systems he employed why didn't he use them as such and why did we look so slow, cumbersome and toothless.

Because he never had any intention to play 4-3-3 at Spurs and didn't understand team attacking football

 

[RichieS]

Because he never had any intention to play 4-3-3 at Spurs and didn't understand team attacking football

Which is all the more bizarre when you consider the big interview(s) about his philosophy and the success that his system had brought to Porto.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I've read an awful lot (since it's all gone wrong, at least) on here and in the press about how last summer's transfer approach was "scattergun" leaving us with an average and unbalanced squad. I confess that I am one of the many people who couldn't believe what was happening when we were spending the Bale money and could only foresee good things for this season. Ok, I was somewhat wrong there but I'm still baffled by the aforementioned accusation as to me there was a very clear plan to our transfers.

We start with a small analysis of AVB's system and how he deployed it (with much success) at Porto.

As we know, it was a very clear 4-3-3 with the front six usually consisting of the following:

------------Fernando------------
-----Guarin-------Moutinho-----
-----------------------------------
Hulk-----------------------Varela
--------------Falcao--------------
​

As we know though, modern football is concerned more with roles than positions, so a quick reminder of those is in order...
Fernando - DM. Protect the defence, win ball, pass simple. When attacking, drop in between the centre backs allowing the full backs to get forward.
Guarin - Box to box midfielder, defensively sound while offering attacking threat.
Moutinho - Playmaker. Take ball from less technically able players and make things happen, either through passing or by carrying the ball forward.
Hulk - Inverted wide forward. Drift inside as much as possible to support the striker and offer a goal threat.
Varela - Inverted winger. Stay wider but seek to offer more creativity than the battering ram on the other side.
Falcao - No.9. Make space for others with clever running. Loiter in and around the box. Score.

Now, consider the midfielders and forwards that we ended last season with:

Sandro
Huddlestone
Livermore
Parker
Dembélé
Holtby
Carroll
Lennon
Bale
Bentley
Sigurđsson
Falqué
Townsend
Adebayor
Dempsey
Kane

Out of that lot, the closest we could have got to the Porto system was probably:

-------------Sandro-------------
----Dembélé-----Huddlestone--
-----------------------------------
Bale-----------------------Falqué
------------Adebayor--------------
​

Not bad, but hardly going to set the world alight (especially with uncertainty over Sandro's return and Bale's future). Not only that, but the backup is far from stellar (Parker in place of Sandro? Livermore for Dembélé? Dempsey for Adebayor?)

So let's consider the transfers:
Out
Huddlestone - Good passer of the ball, but not overly creative or quick thinking. Reasonable sale for good money.
Livermore - Jack of all trades, master of none. Passable backup to either Sandro or Dembélé but certainly possible to improve upon. Reasonable loan/sale for good money.
Parker - Had seemingly lost the plot. Great bloke but needed to be improved upon. Reasonable sale for good money.
Bale - Ultimately unavoidable.
Bentley - Would anyone have kept him?!
Dempsey - Decent player who scored a fair few goals but doesn't really fit the system. Reasonable sale for good money.
Carroll/Falqué - Reasonable loans for first team football.

So what were we left needing?

1. A quality box to box midfielder to rotate with Dembélé (who we knew would miss games through his hip injury).
2. A quality DM to rotate with Sandro (who had an extremely serious injury).
3. A quality playmaker with the ability to both pass and drive forward with the ball.
4. Wide players to fulfil both the a) Hulk and b) Varela roles.
5. An intelligent penalty box striker to replace/rotate with Adebayor who had had a stinker of a season.

And what did we get?

1. Paulinho - A nailed on Brazilian international starter. Best player at the Confederations Cup.
2. Capoue - Those on here who watch Ligue 1 were extremely excited about this signing. Few doubted his quality before his injury.
3. Eriksen - Pretty much the most highly rated young playmaker in Europe with another (Holtby) in reserve.
4. This is where things alter slightly. Presumably due to the availability of players, the roles switched flanks and we bought in a) Chadli and b) Lamela. Some were underwhelmed with the Chadli signing but when you consider his physical attributes and positional abilities he fits that Hulk role very well. Lamela was one of the most highly rated young players in the world and had just top-scored in Serie A. Very skilful and creative, he fits that Varela role perfectly.
5. Soldado. Knew where the goal was. Runs well. Scored goals. About the best we could have hoped for.

Suddenly, we're in a position to field:

------------Sandro------------
---Paulinho--------Eriksen----
--------------------------------
Lamela------------------Chadli
------------Soldado------------
​

or in the worst injury crisis:

------------Capoue------------
---Dembélé---------Holtby----
---------------------------------
Townsend------------Sigurđsson
------------Adebayor------------
​

I am surely not the only person that can see significant improvement there, not only in personnel but also in suitability for the system. Hardly "scattergun".

I think Baldini did an overall superb job. The only mystery is why AVB didn't practise the system that he preached now that he had been provided with the personnel.

Re: the defence. If AVB didn't fancy Caulker, why not replace him with Romania's captain while making a profit? Only 4 CB's you say? Capoue had played perfectly well there in the past. The only problem was LB, but how did we know that Jan was going to be such a gimp about being asked to play there? Rose had just had a pretty good season on loan at Sunderland and had earnt his chance just as Walker had done before him. I'm in the Naughton-supporter ranks and think he is more than adequate cover for Walker (who rarely gets injured or requires a rest anyway).

Very good and well constructed rationale Richie. Agree with almost all (I don't overly rate Walkker or Naughton either).

The bit in bold is the conundrum none of us can fathom. I do not understand why AVB did not revert to a system he had used so effectively at Porto and which would have suited the players we signed.

And I still can't fathom why Sherwood, supposed overseer of our mostly 433 playing academy, who also helped choose some of the players we signed, who has talked about a symmetry between development and first team group, who's best game as a manager was probably the 433 game at Newcastle, and even against 433 playing top sides and also having seen AVB suffer because of not using it, also eschews the system.

It's a fucking mystery of three shams.

 

[JaySpur]

So where do we go from here? We supposedly have the players to play one particular system very well, but not a manager/coach to lead them consitently down that road.

If only there was someone out there rooted in the nuances of 433 that could take over soon.... if only...

(Forgive the sarcasm. It's been a tough season and yet i'll probably be writing similar waffle next April)

 

[idontgetit]

The thing is the few times our managers have played 4-3-3 we've been really good. AVB when we spanked Man City last year, the wonky T.S version early on in his managerial 'career'. Arguably the closest thing to the correct set-up was the home game against Arsenal. Sandro sitting, Bentaleb and Eriksen linking up in the middle, Townsend and Chadli wide and Ade leading the line. We'd never set-up like that before but we played really well. If that was the first game of the season and we lost to an on form Arsenal by a single thunderbolt in opening minutes everyone would be saying 'well that sucks but give these players a few games together in this set-up to gel and we'll be golden!'

 

[mill]

Because he never had any intention to play 4-3-3 at Spurs and didn't understand team attacking football

I agree with this, we missed out on moutinho ok gutted, doesn't mean you can't find a similar player to perform that role. Instead avb wanted paulinho, completely different type of player.

according to Jason burt avb's plan for this season was keep bale and sign hulk, paulinho, villa and coentrao, avb wasn't looking to play 433

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

You lost me when you said "Soldado runs well".

 

[hellava_tough]

Very good and well constructed rationale Richie. Agree with almost all (I don't overly rate Walkker or Naughton either).

The bit in bold is the conundrum none of us can fathom. I do not understand why AVB did not revert to a system he had used so effectively at Porto and which would have suited the players we signed.

And I still can't fathom why Sherwood, supposed overseer of our mostly 433 playing academy, who also helped choose some of the players we signed, who has talked about a symmetry between development and first team group, who's best game as a manager was probably the 433 game at Newcastle, and even against 433 playing top sides and also having seen AVB suffer because of not using it, also eschews the system.

It's a fucking mystery of three shams.

In hindsight, I get the impression that AVB bottled it because of his history with Mourinho and the EPL, reverting to defensive football, and Sherwood just doesn't have a clue.

 

[SandroClegane]

One of the best posts I've read on this board in months. Well done. Nice to have a completely realistic view of what's going on.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

In hindsight, I get the impression that AVB bottled it because of his history with Mourinho and the EPL, reverting to defensive football, and Sherwood just doesn't have a clue.

Why his history with Mourinho ?

 

[buttons]

Three points to make:

- the team in the OP looks great, be interested to know if there has been a single game this season when all have been fit and available?

- I think AVB bottled the 4-3-3 because of the perceived instant success needed in the PL. 4-2-3-1 is tried and tested, and a little more defensive, and after the Chelsea debarkle I think he played it safe.

- great OP.