How do we compete currently? (1st XI vs top 6)

[lukespurs7]

I find a lot of stuff wrong with this post, firstly its something that is abit of fun and I understand that but your decision making isn't consistent imo

So for example you say that Chadli deserve a high rating due to the amount of goals he got but then with the striker you have Rooney above Kane. Rooney hasn't got 20 goals in 3 seasons and has only got 20 goals or more twice in his career. He is good striker imo, then you have Costa second who got the same amount of goals as Kane and has only been a top striker for 3 seasons. Then Giroud who has been one of the best strikers last season for goals per mins ratio

Then there is Walcott, a guy who has achieved nothing in over a year and even then he hasn't been consistent enough.

Anyway here is my version since I am bored
Top6 1st XI Comparison:

GK:
Courtious 1
De Gea 1
Lloris 1
Hart 2
Cech 3
Mignolet 4

I actually think Courtois is overrated by players aren't noticing his flaws and taking advantage

RB:
Ivanovic 1
Zabaleta 2
Clyne 3
Bellerin 4
Tripper 4
Darmian 4 * unknown in PL

The bottom 3 have to prove they are ready, ballerin perhaps slightly edges it

CB pairings:
Terry & Cahill 1
Kompany & Demichelis 2
Mertsrsacker & Koscielney 2
Vertongthen & Alderwield 3
Rojo & Smalling 4
Skrtel & Sakho 5

I think Man City and Arsenal have flaws but the others are worse. Ours is very high considering the amount of goals we shipped however Rojo and Smalling don't look comfortable and De Gea saved their arses a lot. Also I think our players suffer because of the system and for example arsenal are better than Kompany and co. because of the way they defend and not necessarily because of the players. I actually think Terry and Cahill are only the best because of Mourinho, cahill was horrific at times last season.

LB:
Rose 1
Azpiliqueta 1
Monreal 2
Clichy 3
Shaw 4
Moreno 4

Moreno isn't a bad LB and out of all of the positions I there really isn't much between and this is the closest group of players.

DM1:
Schniederlin 1
Matic 1
Bentaleb 2
Fernandinho 2
Lucas 3
Coquelin 4

Now Bentaleb should be on this list but we don't have a DM. Lucas been demoted a place for injury issues

CM2:
Fabregas 1
Henderson 2
Schweinsteiger 3
Ramsey 3
Fernandinho 4
Mason 5

Ramsey would have been top the season before but had a poor year last season. Schweinsteiger is low because it is unknown if he can handle the PL after a poor season in the bundesliga. Mason is last but that doesn't mean he is very bad, the rest are really good.

LWF:
Hazard 1
Sanchez 2
Sterling 3
Depay 3
Firmino 3
Chadli 3

I actually think I being too kind on Sterling but he is PL proven. Depay and Firmino are unproven in the PL whilst Sterling is better than Chadli but then he doesn't get enough assists or goals. I actually think it should be Chadli last as the rest have a lot more potential but then that would be unfair to a player who has got 16 goals and assists in the PL

CAM:
Toure 1
Eriksen 2
Mata 2
Coutinho 3
Oscar 3
Ozil 4

The best AM is probably Fabregas but he is counted as a CM.

RWF:
Silva 1
Milner 2
Di Maria 3
Willian 4
Walcott 4
Lamela 4

Harsh on Willian who works hard for the team but he needs to do more as he hasn't

ST:
Ageuro 1
Costa 2
Rooney 2
Sturridge 2
Kane 2
Giroud 2

Rooney and kane have the most to prove(as one hasn't been a striker for a while and the other needs to do it on their second season, whilst the other 3 are on par with the other 2 because of their injury record)

Overall ratings: (lowest is best)
Back 5:
1st CHELSEA 4
2nd Man.City 7
3rd Arsenal 11
4th Tottenham 9 +4 for corporation tax(for lack of organisation)
4th Man.U 13
6th Liverpool 16

Midfield:
1st Chelsea 10
2nd Man.City 11
3rd Man.U 12
4th Liverpool 13
5th Arsenal 17 (they are better than his but inexperience of Coquelin and inconsistency of Walcott and Ozil hurts them)
6th Tottenham 16 + 2 for night tax (for overworking ourselves and looking tired)

OVERALL 1st XI with taxes:
1st: Chelsea 16
2nd: Man.City 19
3rd: Man Yoo 27
4th Arsenal 30
5th: Liverpool 31
6th: Tottenham 27 + 6 in taxes = 33

If we can sort out our tax issues on our day, we can compete with Liverpool and Arsenal and expose their failings but over a season with their better squads and issues paying tax Liverpool and Arsenal are better(liverpool have 10 strikers and Arsenal have better midfield options)

Very interesting mate and thanks for taking the time to do that.

Agree with some of this and I see your point about consistencey but the ratings are a combination of recent form and overall ability and likelihood to perform.

You mention Walcott, he basically won Arsenal the FA cup and on his day is outstanding he's just been injured. Arsenals midfield is their strongest part, I Know they're our biggest rivals but I really think you've under-rated it.

Agree on the 'taxes' thing this is where it all becomes subjective as other factors are involved rather than just individual player ability.

As for strikers would you really say going into next season you'd rather have Kane than Rooney leading our line? Sorry but after one good season it's a risk to say that and right now Rooney is a better more proven bet and Id swap them in a heartbeat.

 

[lukespurs7]

Oh, grow the fuck up. People are allowed to argue against something if they think it's wrong. No forum is going to be everyone nodding in agreement. Some sad cry babies on this site whenever they see a disagreement.

He does have a point though there is disagreeing with a valid opinion based on some form of logic and then there are the users who just outright disagree with everything/think they know everything or just spout crap to try and get a reaction or because they're Spurs blinded and can't have a neutral opinion. It's a bit zzz tbh.

 

[wearetheparklane]

Great post - enjoyable read. I really hope Alderweid turns out to be a good buy, and Trippier isn't another in the long list of failed full backs from the last few years.

As a side note, it's one thing to disagree with someones opinion but there is a certain etiquette and manner about doing it that can be seen as deriding someone.

 

[cliff jones]

Oh, grow the fuck up. People are allowed to argue against something if they think it's wrong. No forum is going to be everyone nodding in agreement. Some sad cry babies on this site whenever they see a disagreement.

haha. dont worry, youre not the only one your tone towards other spurs fans who are making a good effort is objectionable. opinions shouted at facts. anyone who disagrees is a nerd, needs to grow up. en!joy the rest of the summer.

 

[WiganSpur]

My views relative to the opposition:

-Goalkeepers. Very competitive with Lloris and Vorm, up there with the best GK and sub keeper in the league. Courtois and Begovic may just edge it though. 2nd

-Full Backs. Relative to our opponents I think right back is an area we may be weak in. We all know about Walker and Trippier has yet to prove himself. On the other side Rose and Davies are solid, Rose definitely up there with the best in the league but Azpilicueta is better for me. 5th

-Centre Backs. Average to good in comparison with our rivals. Toby is a good addition, has yet to play for us of course but you'd think he shouldn't have too many problems adapting. Jan is top class, Dier is a great prospect. Wimmer unproven, Fazio solid enough for backup. 4th

-Central Midfield. Without a doubt our weak point relative to the opposition. Bentaleb is our only real standout and he's still got a long way to go to be considered one of the best in the league. Alli hasn't yet proven himself. Without a signing we're 6th best in terms of our CMs imo. We may be better than Liverpool at a push, but I do rate Can and Henderson. 6th

-Wingers. Not overly competitive to be honest. No genuine world class talents to boast about really. Lamela is promising and Chadli is solid. Don't think we're any better than any of our rivals in these positions though. We're probably 6th here, but may have the potential to move higher after this season. 6th

-Creative midfielders. Eriksen pretty good but no better than the likes of Ozil, Coutinho etc, not on the same level as Silva though. Probably about 5th or 6th. Depends how the likes of Firmino get on really. 6th

-Strikers. Kane is top but with him out the equation we're shite. I'd say we were about level 4th with Arsenal and Liverpool due to the better depth they have. Liverpool of course have far far more depth but Sturridge seems a bit of a sick note these days and we're not quite sure if Benteke is going to work out. In Kane it seems we have a proven goalscorer. 4th/5th

In summary we're about 6th between us, Liverpool, Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea and City, at a push 5th ahead of Liverpool with the right transfers. Makes sense really as that's where we usually finish.

Depends on: If we buy a CM or what CM we buy, what striker(s) we buy, if Townsend is sold and we replace him, if Trippier can prove himself at RB.

 

[Hoops]

Hmmm. I think we are a long way off top 4. And slightly behind liverpool. I may be wrong

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

no offense intended, but this thread just reinforces my belief that we tend to overrate our own players. Danny Rose being the best left-back in the league, for instance, or Eriksen being better than Ozil and Mata.

I personally think we're going to be way off top 4 pace this season. maybe not points-wise at the end of the season, but I don't believe we'll be in realistic contention at any point. unless something significant occurs in the next few weeks, our squad really doesn't look that good in comparison to the others.

 

[ILS]

Entitled to your opinion but mabye read when I write not all players are in correct positions as this is a rough guess at each teams best XI.

As for Lloris as I said the top 5 are all pretty similar really, his kicking is shite and he does make the occasionally error like the rest but on his day Hart,Courtious and De Gea are also world class, you can't really deny that and it's difficult to say Lloris is outright better as much as we like him I saw games last season where nothing could get past Hart or De Gea.

And did you not see Coutiniho last season he was absolutely class, Mata and Ozil went hiding far more often. Coutiniho won many games for L-pool. And as a player comparison Milner is more proven than Schneiderlin and was outstanding for Man.City in the league and Champions League so hard to say Scheniderlin is better.

Mata and ozil went hiding?? What the hell did eriksen do?

Your original post is deluded and the bit about Rose being best left back....really?

We are a just above average premiership side who struggles in the later rounds of the Europa league every season so trust me apart from Hugo you are seriously over rating the majority of our players apart from Lamela which is spot on.

 

[Deleted member 25918]

Nice post, but some of the rankings are a bit skewed because the positions don't all match as others have said.

That said, it's a good call and does show where we probably all know we need to strengthen. DM, CF and a ideally 2 wide men would be ideal. I think Lamela could still come good, and Erikson could become more consistent.

I think Trippier might also surprise a lot of people this year, he shone in a struggling team last year, and his crossing stats were immense. Makes me wonder how good Kane and hopefully Llorente will look with decent service from wide men and Trippier and Rose.

All in all, if we strengthen a bit more, I do think the top 4 is realistic this year, especially with a lot of the dead wood going, should help the team spirit, something which has helped sides like Bournemouth, Soton and Burnley punch above their weight in the past few seasons.

COYS!

 

[faze_coys]

no offense intended, but this thread just reinforces my belief that we tend to overrate our own players. Danny Rose being the best left-back in the league, for instance, or Eriksen being better than Ozil and Mata.

Couldnt agree more

 

[WhiteStripe]

I appreciate the sentiment of the original post and rather than slating it, I would say that it's post like this that are the bread and butter of a forum. They should spark reasoned, lively debate, not abuse.

I think the OP has tried to come up with a method of comparison, for me though, bundling in a position by position comparison where teams play in different styles and square pegs are shoehorned into round holes doesn't work. Also, the subjective ranking of players is again just that, subjective. In my opinion, whilst not getting enough game time, Willian is a fantastic, hard working player who probably suits other positions better and is not really comparable to any on the list for LWF.

The point of my post is that I like posts like the OP's, because whether you agree with them or not, they are what forums were made for....to spark debate amongst like minded people. So credit where credit is due.

 

[Shanks]

Honestly, I'd say we were bottom of the list in Defenders (apart from LB), central midfield and wingers.

So, overall, 6th best squad in the league, which also fits with our wage bill,
As such, target has to be 6th, as a minimum, anything over that, great.

The more interesting part for me, is our defence, we were terrible last season - in fact we let in the 3rd highest amount of goals, so form from last year, would put our defence way lower than 6th. This part of critical, if we can tidy up our defensive, we should have a better season.

I'd just like us to take our chances, rather than always fluffing our lines

 

[michaelden]

Kompany & Mangala are 1, Jan & Toby are 6 - just my opinion.

 

[Lufti]

Kompany & Mangala are 1, Jan & Toby are 6 - just my opinion.

Come on, any defence with Sakho in it is an automatic 6th place. Also Mertesacker is getting worse by the year, thought he was trash last year. I suspect their defence will be changing to Koscielny - Gabriel next year

 

[beats1]

Kompany & Mangala are 1, Jan & Toby are 6 - just my opinion.

Come on, any defence with Sakho in it is an automatic 6th place. Also Mertesacker is getting worse by the year, thought he was trash last year. I suspect their defence will be changing to Koscielny - Gabriel next year

Also smalling and Rojo, rojo was poor at defending last season and Smalling is literally Smalling

Also Mangala was a bit of a wreck last season

 

[Blake Griffin]

Also Mangala was a bit of a wreck last season

so was kompany, i think he might've fallen off the cliff actually.

 

[TottenhamLegend]

RWF:

Schweinstiger

Genuine lol from me

 

[Mattspur]

I also have a lot of time on my hands today.

Top 6 1st XI Comparison:

GK:
Lloris 1
Hart 1
De Gea 1
Courtious 1
Cech 1
Mignolet 2

RB:
Ivanovic 1
Zabaleta 2
Clyne 3
Bellerin 3
Tripper 4
Darmian 4 * unknown in PL

CB pairings:
Terry & Cahill 1
Kompany & Demichelis 2
Mertsrsacker & Koscielney 3
Skrtel & Sakho 4
Vertongthen & Alderwield 4
Rojo & Smalling 5

LB:
Azpiliqueta 1
Clichy 2
Monreal 3
Rose 3
Shaw 4
Moreno 4

CM1:
Matic 1
Schniederlin 2
Bentaleb 3
Fernandinho 3
Milner 4
Coquelin 4

CM2:
Fabregas 1
Toure 1
Schweinsteiger 2
Ramsey 3
Henderson 4
Mason 5

LWF:
Hazard 1
Sanchez 1
Sterling 2
Depay 3
Lallana 4
Chadli 4

CAM:
Silva 1
Mata 2
Firmino 3
Ozil 4
Eriksen 4
Oscar 4

RWF:
Cazorla 1
Di Maria 2
Willian 3
Navas 3
Coutinho 4
Lamela 5

ST:
Ageuro 1
Costa 2
Rooney 2
Sturridge 2
Kane 2
Giroud 2

Overall ratings: (lowest is best)
Back 5:
1st Chelsea 4
2nd Man City 7
3rd Arsenal 10
4th Tottenham 12
5th Liverpool 13
6th Man Utd 14

Midfield:
1st Chelsea 10
2nd Man City 10
3rd Man Utd 11
4th Arsenal 13
5th Liverpool 19
6th Tottenham 21

OVERALL 1st XI:
1st: Chelsea 16
2nd: Man City 19
3rd: Arsenal 25
4th: Man Utd 27
5th: Liverpool 34
6th: Tottenham 35

 

[Blake Griffin]

RB:
Ivanovic 1
Zabaleta 2
Clyne 3
Bellerin 3
Tripper 4
Darmian 4 * unknown in PL

CAM:
Silva 1
Mata 2
Firmino 3
Ozil 4
Eriksen 4
Oscar 4

so how does this work?

 

[Mattspur]

so how does this work?

Never seen Darmian play but have seen Frimino a few times and I think he'll do very well.

By the way, you do realise that this is all just guess work for a bit of fun and I haven't performed any sort of physical or statistical anaylsis to back up my scores.