Harry Winks - Leicester City

[Trix]

Not sure why Winks gets so much grief. We have a front line that no longer moves, lacklustre full backs and a defence that has half give up. Yet he is expected to provide killer forward passes and tackle like Sandro .

Winks is a mobile possession recycler similar to Carrick, play him in a mobile balanced team and he will play well, like he did last season and like he is doing for England. The team ain’t functioning right now and that’s the issue. It’s why Kane and Winks are struggling at Spurs but not England.

He's in the same boat as most of our better players. What he's being asked to do does not play to his strengths. I thought he was very good yesterday.

 

[cliff jones]

Not sure why Winks gets so much grief. We have a front line that no longer moves, lacklustre full backs and a defence that has half give up. Yet he is expected to provide killer forward passes and tackle like Sandro .

Winks is a mobile possession recycler similar to Carrick, play him in a mobile balanced team and he will play well, like he did last season and like he is doing for England. The team ain’t functioning right now and that’s the issue. It’s why Kane and Winks are struggling at Spurs but not England.

unfortunately, he has neither the vision nor the two footed balance and execution of MC.

I don't think he should start v park the bus teams at home- given he doesn't succeed in passing between the lines nor break up counter attacks.

But he is getting too much hammer, and doesn't deserve scapegoating. The irony being that Poch keeps picking Aurier, Rose and Eriksen, who are typically HW's main outlets- and their all-round shiteness is making him look more unproductive.

I think HW is good for the squad, gives a ****, and will recover confidence as and when the team at large turns the corner.

Actually, I'd play him mainly as a finisher, in the Rugby Union sense- assuming we can get our noses in front in games.

 

[Gassin's finest]

He was playing against a team who would struggle against Barnet.. He's woeful against the bigger teams like Bayern, Liverpool and City

Yeah of course, that's why he was so damn impressive against the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona in recent seasons...

 

[Gspurs11]

Yeah of course, that's why he was so damn impressive against the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona in recent seasons...

I also remember in those games Winks' passing being expansive! For Dele's goal he played the neat dink over the defence for Tripper to run onto and was generally excellent.

Poch's current tactics expose Winks' flaws and dampens his skill set; a prime example is when he's asked to play in the diamond, usually at the base.

 

[Gspurs11]

He was playing against a team who would struggle against Barnet.. He's woeful against the bigger teams like Bayern, Liverpool and City

Winks was probably our best player in the CL Final. When everyone else looked lost and bereft of ideas, he was excellently going about his duties.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Fantastic post

Love this.

 

[Trotter]

Winks was probably our best player in the CL Final. When everyone else looked lost and bereft of ideas, he was excellently going about his duties.

Total difference of opinion to me.
I thought he was the main reason we basically didn’t cause Liverpool any problem until after the 75th minute when we substituted him.
He spent the whole game playing triangles between himself, full back and centre back and did not once look to move the ball forward.
We had zero shots on target (2 in total) in the 75 mins he was on the park, and 8 on target in the 15 mins he wasn’t.
Having an acceptable proactive game, let alone a good game for us has been the exception rather than the rule since his introduction into the side, and I see Poch is going that way now, as we are constantly substituting/dropping him. Injuries have meant he has played way too often for us, as Poch has had few options in my view.
Not saying Sissoko and Tanguy is a good partnership (getting a proper DM in there to play alongside Ndombele is what is needed), but Winks should really be 4th choice for 2 positions for a team at our level, and if he cannot add another string no to his bow (defensive awareness or a creative threat) then really there should not be any reason to play him, with possible exception of maybe trying to kill a game off.

 

[Gspurs11]

Total difference of opinion to me.
I thought he was the main reason we basically didn’t cause Liverpool any problem until after the 75th minute when we substituted him.
He spent the whole game playing triangles between himself, full back and centre back and did not once look to move the ball forward.
We had zero shots on target (2 in total) in the 75 mins he was on the park, and 8 on target in the 15 mins he wasn’t.
Having an acceptable proactive game, let alone a good game for us has been the exception rather than the rule since his introduction into the side, and I see Poch is going that way now, as we are constantly substituting/dropping him. Injuries have meant he has played way too often for us, as Poch has had few options in my view.
Not saying Sissoko and Tanguy is a good partnership (getting a proper DM in there to play alongside Ndombele is what is needed), but Winks should really be 4th choice for 2 positions for a team at our level, and if he cannot add another string no to his bow (defensive awareness or a creative threat) then really there should not be any reason to play him, with possible exception of maybe trying to kill a game off.

I think that's a fair take on him and the game, and I can see why.

TBH I've not actually watched the game back so your position might be one i agree with if I ever did (which now I will certainly not).

However, I think Winks was giving a set of instructions by Poch that helped us break their press well. Maybe his passing wasn't as progressive as I remember but his triangles, sideways passing helped suck them out of shape on a few good occasions in that 1st half. It was then down to terrible decision making by Dele and Son as well as good defending and awful shooting why we didn't have more on target then. I can't really remember the 2nd half as I was half cut.

I just remember a theme throughout the game with him being off the pitch and on it was we weren't clinical when we had the numerical advantage on counters. I stick by a lot of the good work we did in the 1st half was down to his methodicalness.

Fair point on the shots on target after he came off, though.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

I’m not having this HW 'isn’t all that' talk

Because

I’ve seen him have some absolutely fantastic games where he dictates the tempo and flow of our entire game and hasn’t put a foot wrong, against some very good opposition

But I think he is a mirror of where a team is at. In a vibrant, confident team full of energy and movement always dictating and on the front foot he is fantastic

When the team is none of those he becomes pedestrian and without ideas or outlets

He’s a top player with a great footballing brain and hasn’t suddenly become crap or ordinary

The problem is like Tottenham he’s not functioning properly but rest assured there is still a top player bubbling under the surface

Hasn’t got the defensive ability of a Carrick or the physical presence of a Dembele nor has he the force of nature of a Keane to take the game by the scruff of the neck but in a confident well oiled machine he’s a vital and very intelligent cog

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I’m not having this HW 'isn’t all that' talk

Because

I’ve seen him have some absolutely fantastic games where he dictates the tempo and flow of our entire game and hasn’t put a foot wrong, against some very good opposition

But I think he is a mirror of where a team is at. In a vibrant, confident team full of energy and movement always dictating and on the front foot he is fantastic

When the team is none of those he becomes pedestrian and without ideas or outlets

He’s a top player with a great footballing brain and hasn’t suddenly become crap or ordinary

The problem is like Tottenham he’s not functioning properly but rest assured there is still a top player bubbling under the surface

Hasn’t got the defensive ability of a Carrick or the physical presence of a Dembele nor has he the force of nature of a Keane to take the game by the scruff of the neck but in a confident well oiled machine he’s a vital and very intelligent cog

spot on.

 

[Goobers]

He's in the same boat as most of our better players. What he's being asked to do does not play to his strengths. I thought he was very good yesterday.

I can't see our midfield have any balance or getting the best of the players we have with the current incumbents. I can see a combination of what we have playing well together in rotation with at least one addition. It will not change until that is addressed.

 

[skaz04nik]

However, I think Winks was giving a set of instructions by Poch that helped us break their press well. Maybe his passing wasn't as progressive as I remember but his triangles, sideways passing helped suck them out of shape on a few good occasions in that 1st half. It was then down to terrible decision making by Dele and Son as well as good defending and awful shooting why we didn't have more on target then. I can't really remember the 2nd half as I was half cut.

Winks always plays the safe pass when he's on his half, not matter for Spurs or England.

It doesn't look that bad when he is surrounded by players naturally focused on aggressive and risky forward passing or forward push (Trent, Chilwell, Ox et al). But we don't have them but Davies, Aurier, Toby and Sissoko. Not to mention Dele now loses the ball way too quickly when he gets it

However, at some point Maguire stopped giving the ball to Winks and took it forward himself. Btw Toby or Jan in the same situation are often lazy and just shoot the longball somewhere in hope that Kane wins it

 

[The Apprentice]

It’s weird the amount of hostility he gets from our own fans.

He’s a good little player and has been one of our more consistent performers this year in midfield. Find a system that suits him and he’ll perform.

Southgate seems to like him and he linked up the play beautifully yesterday. Granted, it was Montenegro but still more than did his job.

For a player that only passes backwards and can’t pass incisively, his forward ball to Sancho before Kane’s goal looked awfully incisive and probing.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

It’s weird the amount of hostility he gets from our own fans.

He’s a good little player and has been one of our more consistent performers this year in midfield. Find a system that suits him and he’ll perform.

Southgate seems to like him and he linked up the play beautifully yesterday. Granted, it was Montenegro but still more than did his job.

For a player that only passes backwards and can’t pass incisively, his forward ball to Sancho before Kane’s goal looked awfully incisive and probing.

The last time England played rice instead of winks we were woeful.

 

[John48]

Yeah of course, that's why he was so damn impressive against the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona in recent seasons...

Tend to agree with this, although I do think he's better suited to European & International matches, but the Prem league is more physical & I think he struggles in these games.

 

[Typical Spurs]

I like Winksy. He's a good tidy player. Nothing more, nothing less in my opinion. He's never ever going to be a world class playmaker. Again, just my opinion. But he doesn't have to be. We don't need world class players in every position.

He shines in games where he has more space. I know people talk about the Real Madrid games, but they gave us time and space all over the pitch. I even remember our players saying they couldn't believe how much space they had in Madrid.

He's a Spurs lad and that counts for a lot. He cares about us which is more than can be said for some of our players.

Unfortunately due to the way we're playing, even truly world class players like Kane look ordinary at times.

 

[Navin R Johnson]

unfortunately, he has neither the vision nor the two footed balance and execution of MC.

I don't want to spoil the thread by going off topic but I feel quite privileged to have seen Carrick at Spurs, a great player, the fact it took all those fans from Guildford a good few seasons to appreciate him tells you all you need to know about Man Yoo fans. As others have mentioned, Harry's a good, tidy, efficient but unspectacular player, not in the same mould as Carrick but to be compared to Carrick is a big compliment in my opinion.

 

[rsmith]

Winks always plays the safe pass when he's on his half, not matter for Spurs or England.

Except that's not actually true. Watch the 2nd half vs. SHU.
49:02 forward run and pass to Son which led to Son attempt
52:04 forward pass to lo Celso through to Son, keeper gathered
53:30 forward pass to dele led to Son attempt
57:11 cross field ball to Sissoko in lead up to son’s goal
76:00 winks shot from edge of penalty area
86:22 cross from Winks above Kane’s head

So it was offensive passes from Winks were part of 60% of our attacking chances in the second half.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

To get the best out of Winks he needs be alongside another CM whom can also pass and move the ball quickly eg not Sissoko. I’d like to see Poch or post Poch go with a central midfield 3 of:

Lo Celso........ Winks .......... Ndombele

Winks - calm in possession, good passing
Lo Celso - energetic, hardworking, intricate passing, creative
Ndombele - skill, pace, power, progressive ball movement, creative

Then a front 3 of:

Son................ Kane .............. Sessegnon

Balance, pace, skill, creativity, finishing.

 

[Locotoro]

To get the best out of Winks he needs be alongside another CM whom can also pass and move the ball quickly eg not Sissoko. I’d like to see Poch or post Poch go with a central midfield 3 of:

Lo Celso........ Winks .......... Ndombele

Winks - calm in possession, good passing
Lo Celso - energetic, hardworking, intricate passing, creative
Ndombele - skill, pace, power, progressive ball movement, creative

Then a front 3 of:

Son................ Kane .............. Sessegnon

Balance, pace, skill, creativity, finishing.

I'd like to see that midfield three as well but I've noticed we struggle to get players into the box so moving a player from the 3 behind Kane to the midfield role would be detrimental to that problem