Downing - that left midfielder....

[Legend10]

TT and Davids did help, but untill this season when Steed has played LM he offerd hardly any suport for the LB, and alsays cut into midfield so left a huge gap for teams to attack down.

Lennon's defensive game has been poor, but has always done a job at helping, even with just his pace players know they wont get far passed him or chimbonda befor he is there again so even though Lennon isnt the best at defending, his pace still causes problemsfor the attackers

Before this season Steed has played no more than a dozen games at LM in front of Lee.

In fact last season Lee was far from a regular at LB until BAE got injured.

BAE didn't paly again after January and still racked up 16 Prem starts.

Lee is a decent player and I don't have any problems with him but there is definitely some selective memory going on. Since he has been at Spurs he has only ever been automatic 1st choice LB when his competition for the position has been injured. When other LB's have been fit and available his selection has actually been quite limited.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I've stated before that while I believe Lee can do a Job at LB. I honestly think that this area is a weak area. It seems to me that many opposing teams think this too as they constantly look to probe down that area. Especially long looping balls over. Lee doesn't handle them to well.

Do I see a solution right now? In all honesty in our current squad....YES!! Bale showed great promise before being injured and none of us have really seen allot of Gilberto to say one way or the other. For the now though I do think Chimbonda is a better defender then Lee and if I was Ramos, I would play Chimbo ahead of Lee until either Bale is fit or Gilberto is Match fit and ready to play. Need to see more of Gilberto tbh before I can fully answer that though.

I disagree - Chimbonda's defending and attitude have been woeful for the last few weeks, bar one half decent display against Everton, but that was alongside Gunter and Woodgate, both making their league debut and he really had to step up to the plate. His game against Man U was great, but other than that he's still guilty of not making the effort to get back and slack passing - combine the two and it can spell disaster, especially seeing as Lennon, as stated above, isn't the most tackley of midfielders (new word!).

Either way, i couldn't see Downing and Chimbonda getting along and could only see Downing fitting into a side if it was along the same lines as he has at the moment - left to run that flank pretty much on his own, relying on putting most of his crosses in from deep and following them up... :shrug:

I still think he could've done a job 18 months ago, but we've evolved passed the Downing style player as a team...

 

[Evolution]

I still think he could've done a job 18 months ago, but we've evolved passed the Downing style player as a team...

Best thing you said all day :clap: :beer:

 

[tRiKS]

Presumably if everyone was fit Ramos will put out what he thinks is his best team for the CC final. I say if Lee is in that team at LB, RockSS deserves some kudos for having the same opinion as an excellent coach. The people who disagree will then have to admit they also disagree with Ramos... Imagine in your heads how silly "i know better than Ramos" would sound.

RockSS.. be aware that if Lee is fit and available but still isn't picked at LB then obviously you are telling Ramos he is a wrong'un too.

 

[SpurSince57]

Before this season Steed has played no more than a dozen games at LM in front of Lee.

In fact last season Lee was far from a regular at LB until BAE got injured.

BAE didn't paly again after January and still racked up 16 Prem starts.

Lee is a decent player and I don't have any problems with him but there is definitely some selective memory going on. Since he has been at Spurs he has only ever been automatic 1st choice LB when his competition for the position has been injured. When other LB's have been fit and available his selection has actually been quite limited.

Lee was injured at the start of last season and then had a few games at RB after Chimbonda was injured against Chelsea. Meanwhile, after BAE appeared to make an OK start, his deficiencies became increasingly apparent until Jol took him off at half-time at the Death Star before he was sent off. The injury came some time later.

 

[Legend10]

Bale won't be fit so even if Lee plays how will it prove that Ramos sees Lee as his 1st choice LB?

 

[Legend10]

Lee was injured at the start of last season and then had a few games at RB after Chimbonda was injured against Chelsea. Meanwhile, after BAE appeared to make an OK start, his deficiencies became increasingly apparent until Jol took him off at half-time at the Death Star before he was sent off. The injury came some time later.

Yep,

My point was that Lee has never been an automatic choicesince he has been at the club, and indeed has quite often been left out when other options have been available.

I have to emphasise I'm not trying to knock Lee, I'm just trying to bring a sense of reality of how Lee's time at Spurs has been.

 

[sloth]

Who is then? Judging by past performances, experience, overall skill and general consistency?

I think Lee is a very good full-back but with severe limitations. I think the modern full-back needs to be able to bomb forward and put crosses into the box. I think when a side dominates on one flank or the other it is because the combination of FB and winger are going forward not because they’re resisting the attacks of the other side. Obviously this leaves a side vulnerable to the occasional break but better that than sustained pressure and playing off the back-foot.

I think Lee is an above average defender and a below average attacker, an all round solid Premiership performer and a worthy addition to a team of Birmingham or Fulham’s calibre.

I don’t think he’s number one choice at our club I believe Gilberto is and when Bale is fit I believe he is. In fact I don’t think Senor Ramos rates Lee very much at all.

I understand the groundswell for a dedicated professional who always gives 100%, I doubly understand it in the face of the scandalous criticism he’s come in for over the years, but I think in an effort to stand-up for him people have moved too far in the other direction.

All that said, this is at the end of the day only my opinion, however I’m confident that it will be borne out by Ramos and his future selection policy and will feel I’ve won the moral argument if it is.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I don’t think he’s number one choice at our club I believe Gilberto is

see, this is what drives me nuts - so what if Giblets, being the new miraculous first choice without even being in the company of the rest of the team for more than a week - steps into the side and then we realise he just cannot get it together in the English game? :shrug:

No, Giblets is not our number one choice. If he is set to become our first choice left back then fair enough, but how can he be first choice when he's not actually played a single game for us? :lol:

 

[nidge]

Yep,

My point was that Lee has never been an automatic choicesince he has been at the club, and indeed has quite often been left out when other options have been available.

I have to emphasise I'm not trying to knock Lee, I'm just trying to bring a sense of reality of how Lee's time at Spurs has been.

Really in his first season he played in 32 of the 40 games we played that season and you have to take into account he had already played 3 games for PSV so didn't join right at the begining of the season. Oh and that season just so happened to be our best defensively for fucking years.

Lee for me is a solid and reliable LB. He is better defensively than people give him credit for. One thing that sticks in my mind was Wigan away last season. This was at a time when many on here were saying that Lee was the biggest weakness in our team yet Paul Jewel set his team up to attack down their left our right and the supposidly superior Chimbonda.

Neither Chimbonda or Lee are top class players and that is why in this window we have bought in Hutton, Gunter and Gilberto.


Edit: Just to keep this on topic and to annoy Stoof, Downing would be a crap signing. :wink:

 

[sloth]

see, this is what drives me nuts - so what if Giblets, being the new miraculous first choice without even being in the company of the rest of the team for more than a week - steps into the side and then we realise he just cannot get it together in the English game? :shrug:

No, Giblets is not our number one choice. If he is set to become our first choice left back then fair enough, but how can he be first choice when he's not actually played a single game for us? :lol:

I think he's Ramos' first choice.

 

[Legend10]

Really in his first season he played in 32 of the 40 games we played that season and you have to take into account he had already played 3 games for PSV so didn't join right at the begining of the season. Oh and that season just so happened to be our best defensively for fucking years.

Lee for me is a solid and reliable LB. He is better defensively than people give him credit for. One thing that sticks in my mind was Wigan away last season. This was at a time when many on here were saying that Lee was the biggest weakness in our team yet Paul Jewel set his team up to attack down their left our right and the supposidly superior Chimbonda.

Neither Chimbonda or Lee are top class players and that is why in this window we have bought in Hutton, Gunter and Gilberto.


Edit: Just to keep this on topic and to annoy Stoof, Downing would be a crap signing. :wink:

No real need for the aggression fella!

You are indeed right through that season he probably was an automatic choice and it would have been fairer if I had said he hasn't been so for the last 1 & a half seasons.

There really is a touchy little circle round this site.

 

[gregga]

Absolutely no need for him.
Malbranque has been quality this season.
Gilberto can play left wing and has bags of experience.
Bale is ace in left midfield and already looks better than downing could ever be.

 

[nidge]

No real need for the aggression fella!

You are indeed right through that season he probably was an automatic choice and it would have been fairer if I had said he hasn't been so for the last 1 & a half seasons.

There really is a touchy little circle round this site.

Wow was I really that agressive? Certainly wasn't meant in that way.

 

[DJS]

Erm isn't this thread supposed to be about Downing... :think:

:lol:

I'd like Downing to come, and at left back I'd like to see Gilberto in action to see how good he is!

I mean he's Brazil's first choice left back which is wicked, but perhaps more cred is that he's player in Germany for several years so must be well disciplined defensively! :up:

If he plays well at left back and Steed continues playing well at left midfield I couldn't see Bale let alone Downing getting in the team... :think:

I'd still like Downing though as I'm greedy plus as Stoof has said, bring balance to the midfield he will! :up:

Oh and I like Lee too - just really wanna see Gilberto in action!

 

[DJS]

Wow was I really that agressive? Certainly wasn't meant in that way.

You scared me...