Does Dawson....

[danielneeds]

The problem is the way we want to play, passing out from the back, defence high pushing up on the opposition. He just doesn't suit any of that.

If he was playing for someone like Pullis at Palace. A team that sits deep getting men behind the ball with little space behind, he'd shine, because his pace wouldn't be exposed and he wouldn't have to make so many decisions, just win physical duels and make blocks.

 

[nidge]

Thanks, but that wasn't the post I was referring to

Was it this one @Archibald&Crooks?

In the rush to kick Dawson in the nuts, the usual suspects are ignoring or lets be charitable and say missing the point.

He plays bad, he gets criticised, nobody has a problem with that. But what do you expect? Should he have walked into the dressing room at Chelsea and kept his gob shut because why? Some people think he's shit? Because he didn't have a good game should he not be upset? Pfffft! Do me a favour.

I think Sherwood's comments about certain players being over the result before they got to the motorway tell us a lot. It goes a lot deeper than who played well on the day and 'earned' the right to have a hissy. Something by the way that isn't coming from some of the more fashionable names in the squad.

Again. Nobody is saying he's Franz Beckenbauer incarnate and this isn't about fair and balanced criticism. The level of abuse and vitriol directed at certain players when they are the current scapegoat of choice isn't deserved, is unnecessary and way over the top.

This time around it just happens to be Dawson.

Lets put it another way. Here are a few examples of what i'm getting at. Obviously, it's been more than Dawson but he's the subject right now………….

Die Dawson
You piece of shit Dawson
I hope you catch bad aids Dawson
Fuckoff out of our club Dawson

Anyone here defending that? Seriously? Anyone here have a problem with the suggestion that he deserves a bit more respect than to be on the receiving end of this kind of thing? Come on then, lets see who here really hates Dawson that much that they'll make up some sort of reason to defend this kind of thing. Lets see which of you is really that petty and mean spirited.

 

[Black]

If anyone makes mistakes then he gets called on it. Simples.

Fixed it a bit

 

[ultimateloner]

Really? I think you must have dropped your moral compass and put a dent in it, mate.

I dont know what moral compass you speak of but footballers are not known for this.

Just imagine how Ade thinks when we are up and concede a goal due to inept defending from Dawson (if the situation involves him). How can you respect a guy if you don't rate him? You can't.

 

[dagraham]

Just imagine how Ade thinks when we are up and concede a goal due to inept defending from Dawson (if the situation involves him). How can you respect a guy if you don't rate him? You can't.

Just imagine what Dawson thinks when Ade decides in which particular periods of the season he actually gives two fucks in.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I dont know what moral compass you speak of but footballers are not known for this.

Just imagine how Ade thinks when we are up and concede a goal due to inept defending from Dawson (if the situation involves him). How can you respect a guy if you don't rate him? You can't.

You respect the guy because of what he's done for the club, and you call him out for the things he can't do as a player. Thankfully for us, he played no part whatsoever when he was the mainstay in a defence that saw us qualifying for the CL, back in 2010, right? That must have all been down to the World Class Bassong .

A club record of consecutive clean sheets, with a supposed "clown" behind the defence, yet you can't respect that? And people can't understand why WHL isn't as loud as it used to be, and our away record eclipses our home record. Yep, it's a head-scratcher

 

[ultimateloner]

Just imagine what Dawson thinks when Ade decides in which particular periods of the season he actually gives two fucks in.

Yes but respect comes from ability not from professionalism.
You can be the person with the best attitude but if you fail to produce then it means nothing.
On the other hand you can be the worst diva (Ballotelli/Tevez) but players/fans will still love you in the end of the day because you have ability.

So in your example Dawson would probably think 'he's being a diva again' but in the back of his mind he knows that the team's result rests largely on him so you can't complain.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I don't go in for personal abuse, so I have no problem respecting the man as I would any of our other players. my problem is that you just can't say anything to criticise the guy, because he "cares", and runs around shouting "come on" and clapping his hands all the time. those kind of things appear to be the be-all and end-all for some people, but I couldn't give a damn for the most part if they're at the expense of ability and end-product.

he's just not a very good player as far as I'm concerned. so yeah, while it's great that he quite literally has the heart of a lion, runs through brick walls, puts his body on the line, and all this other meaningless guff people like to come out with, I think I should be able to point this out without anyone having a problem with it.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I find it funny when people say he’s not good enough for a top 4 clubs but we are not a top four club but we have been finished around it for the last 9 years if you don’t count the two blips and he’s been at the heart of the defence for most of that.

2012/2013 FA Prem 5th
2011/2012 FA Prem 4th
2010/2011 FA Prem 5th
2009/2010 FA Prem 4th
2008/2009 FA Prem 8th
2007/2008 FA Prem 11th
2006/2007 FA Prem 5th
2005/2006 FA Prem 5th

Dawson is that kind of player that people already have a opinion on before the match has even started, what i find very surprising is people complain about his long balls out of defence but most of the time they are our most creative weapon especially when were stuck in our own half no one wants to collect the ball his punts get us up the pitch.
​

When we had the best defence in Europe at the start of the season where were all his haters or even when he came back into the side last season and we went on a run of losing no games, spurs fans have the shortest memoires ever

we were never the best defence in Europe. we may have had the best stats over a very small sample, but that's far from the same thing.

 

[ultimateloner]

You respect the guy because of what he's done for the club, and you call him out for the things he can't do as a player. Thankfully for us, he played no part whatsoever when he was the mainstay in a defence that saw us qualifying for the CL, back in 2010, right? That must have all been down to the World Class Bassong .

A club record of consecutive clean sheets, with a supposed "clown" behind the defence, yet you can't respect that? And people can't understand why WHL isn't as loud as it used to be, and our away record eclipses our home record. Yep, it's a head-scratcher

I think you've changed the subject. I am talking about what Ade thinks; not what the fans think.

If i was a player (e.g. Ade) i wouldn't give 2 cents about what any of my colleagues had done for the current employer in the past; what matters is what they can do in the future and respect comes off that. The past is past and makes no difference to the future; a player's interest is what he can win, not what he had won.

 

[Shadydan]

Maybe so, but if Daws was able to do that, I think he'd be a far better footballer and far more appreciated by Spurs fans

I don't see how?

John Terry doesn't get the respect from a footballing perspective because he goes around shagging team mates wife's and throws racial abuse around...he gets that respect because he's one of the best in the business at what he does.

 

[riggi]

Fixed it a bit

Got himself a reputation now unfortunately.

 

[dagraham]

Yes but respect comes from ability not from professionalism.
You can be the person with the best attitude but if you fail to produce then it means nothing.
On the other hand you can be the worst diva (Ballotelli/Tevez) but players/fans will still love you in the end of the day because you have ability.

So in your example Dawson would probably think 'he's being a diva again' but in the back of his mind he knows that the team's result rests largely on him so you can't complain.

Sorry but that first sentence is nonsense. There are many ways of earning respect. Appreciation of one's ability is just one. My boss is very good at his job but I can't think of many people I respect less.

In order to really succeed in football you need both talent and application. Unless you're in the top echelon of players your talent won't be enough alone. Even then to really become one of the greats you need application (Ronaldo is renowned for tirelessly working on his game).

You could actually argue that application is even more important. A testament of this is the amount of players with minimal talent who have succeeded, whilst many super young talents are now in the lower leagues.

Anyway, its slightly off the point. This thread is not really about how good a pkayer Dawson is. It's the fact that everyone has already decided he is shit and anything that goes wrong in defence is blamed on him and aanything he does well is ignored. The notion that he gets fair criticism is simply not true. Why people can't just call things as they see them and on merit, rather than in some preordained viewpoint I just don't know.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I think you've changed the subject. I am talking about what Ade thinks; not what the fans think.

If i was a player (e.g. Ade) i wouldn't give 2 cents about what any of my colleagues had done for the current employer in the past; what matters is what they can do in the future and respect comes off that. The past is past and makes no difference to the future; a player's interest is what he can win, not what he had won.

Ah, then you're right, I did completely change what you were talking about. Still, I wonder why Dawson isn't first in line to ask Adebayor why so many previous managers have been so happy to get rid of him?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Sorry but that first sentence is nonsense. There are many ways of earning respect. Appreciation of one's ability is just one. My boss is very good at his job but I can't think of many people I respect less.

In order to really succeed in football you need both talent and application. Unless you're in the top echelon of players your talent won't be enough alone. Even then to really become one of the greats you need application (Ronaldo is renowned for tirelessly working on his game).

You could actually argue that application is even more important. A testament of this is the amount of players with minimal talent who have succeeded, whilst many super young talents are now in the lower leagues.

Anyway, its slightly of the point. This thread is not really about how good a pkayer Dawson is. It's the fact that everyone has already decided he is shit and anything that goes wrong in defence is blamed on him and aanything he does well is ignored. The notion that he gets fair criticism is simply not true. Why people can't just call things as they see them and on merit, rather than in some preordained viewpoint I just don't know.

Very good post. Seeing as you mentioned Ronaldo & him being renowned for tirelessly working on his game, I thought I'd also mention Beckham. There was a player who was adored by almost everyone in the game, let alone respected. He too was renowned for staying behind when training had finished, working on his dead-ball delivery, teaching youngsters what he knows, etc etc. However, as a footballer, what could he do apart from hit a decent pass, and take a decent set-piece? Not blessed with blistering pace, possessed very little actual 'skill', and very rarely took a player on, because he really wasn't able to. He was actually very limited as a 'footballer', yet look at the respect he achieved from people all around the world.

 

[dagraham]

Very good post. Seeing as you mentioned Ronaldo & him being renowned for tirelessly working on his game, I thought I'd also mention Beckham. There was a player who was adored by almost everyone in the game, let alone respected. He too was renowned for satying behind when training had finished,m working on his dead-ball delivery, teaching youngsters what he knows, etc etc. However, as a footballer, what could he do apart from hit a decent pass, and take a decent set-piece? Not blessed with blistering pace, possessed very little actual 'skill', and very rarely took a player on, because he really wasn't able to. He was actually very limited as a 'footballer', yet look at the respect he achieved from people all around the world.

Yep, definately made the absolute maximum of his talents. And conducted himself with remarkable dignity throughout his career in the face of outrageous press pressure.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

He's definitely one of the most committed players at the club and maybe that's because he's also the longest serving player.
However, he's recently had too many brain farts, stepping up past the halfway line and/or completely missing challenges, which have led to the opposition getting shots at goal.
Right now I'd rather have him and Kaboul at the back than any partnership with Jan "couldn't give a shit" Vertonghen.

 

[E.L.Strict]

To be honest i would say that currently he gets an undeserved total lack of respect from some fans, and an equally undeserved absolute respect from some other fans.

Personally I feel for both sides. Dawson has pretty much always been a professional and has been committed to the team for around a decade. 05/06 I absolutely loved his combination with Ledley, and he did well as a partner for Kaboul a couple of seasons back. He has been amongst my favourite players at times.

However on the other hand, I find the arguments made in defence of him pretty weak, and that contributes to my frustrations with him. (I figure the opposite is also true, and that his attackers strengthen the conviction of his defenders.)

What exactly are the benefits of having him in the team? Supposedly it is that he has heart and is fully committed to the cause, yet we apparently aren't benefitting from this? Isn't it that sort of player that is supposed to stop a team from capitulating and galvanise his team mates? Would our thrashings have been by greater margins if he HADN'T played, due to the loss of his presence? I highly doubt it.

Secondly, giving 100% isn't a good thing if your performances are consistently below standard. Personally I would be happier if I thought he actually had room to improve, but no, that's him trying his hardest. Depressing.

Thirdly, why on earth are people praising him for not leaving in the summer? If it was Madrid in for him I would understand. Turning down the Championship to stay with Tottenham does not require loyalty.

Fourthly, his crying/overcelebrating just doesn't impress me. I believe they are his true feelings, but why is he so fixated on showing it? The city tunnel cam is the perfect example, he deliberately came up to the camera just so it could get a good shot of his forced tears.

So yeah, I'd say he currently gets heaps of undeserved respect for those 4 points (to go along with the undeserved disrespect that has already been demonstrated in here.)

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

To be honest i would say that currently he gets an undeserved total lack of respect from some fans, and an equally undeserved absolute respect from some other fans.

Personally I feel for both sides. Dawson has pretty much always been a professional and has been committed to the team for around a decade. 05/06 I absolutely loved his combination with Ledley, and he did well as a partner for Kaboul a couple of seasons back. He has been amongst my favourite players at times.

However on the other hand, I find the arguments made in defence of him pretty weak, and that contributes to my frustrations with him. (I figure the opposite is also true, and that his attackers strengthen the conviction of his defenders.)

What exactly are the benefits of having him in the team? Supposedly it is that he has heart and is fully committed to the cause, yet we apparently aren't benefitting from this? Isn't it that sort of player that is supposed to stop a team from capitulating and galvanise his team mates? Would our thrashings have been by greater margins if he HADN'T played, due to the loss of his presence? I highly doubt it.

Secondly, giving 100% isn't a good thing if your performances are consistently below standard. Personally I would be happier if I thought he actually had room to improve, but no, that's him trying his hardest. Depressing.

Thirdly, why on earth are people praising him for not leaving in the summer? If it was Madrid in for him I would understand. Turning down the Championship to stay with Tottenham does not require loyalty.

Fourthly, his crying/overcelebrating just doesn't impress me. I believe they are his true feelings, but why is he so fixated on showing it? The city tunnel cam is the perfect example, he deliberately came up to the camera just so it could get a good shot of his forced tears.

So yeah, I'd say he currently gets heaps of undeserved respect for those 4 points (to go along with the undeserved disrespect that has already been demonstrated in here.)

"Thirdly, why on earth are people praising him for not leaving in the summer? If it was Madrid in for him I would understand. Turning down the Championship to stay with Tottenham does not require loyalty."

By "people", I can only assume you mean me, seeing as, I believe, I'm the only person that has mentioned him not going when we had an offer accepted for him? Well, to me, it doesn't matter who came in for him. The point is/was, he wasn't playing, and his manager had made it perfectly clear that he had no intention of using him. It's not at all absurd to believe, based upon the pampered sods most footballers appear to be these days, that he could well have taken the easy route, and walked out of the club, whilst sticking 2 fingers up at AVB. However, unlike the majority of today's pampered sod footballers, he chose to do the exact opposite, stayed at the club, worked hard & proved his worth to the very manager who wanted to get rid of him. If you don't deem that worth of even a little respect, then that's your choice. However, I, for one, applaud the guy for not taking the easy route, and respect him for it too.

Does that translate as me believing he's a world beater? Not on your nelly. He isn't, he never will be, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be respected for what he has done, rather than dismissed because of the things he can't do.

For the record, I think you made a very good post, but I had to respond to that third part, because it seems to be in relation to something I said earlier.

 

[Shanks]

Can't stand his long balls.

Thats as far as I get with Dawson, he's been doing it for years, simply passing over a good midfield a lot.