Rafa Vdv: Harry is better than Jose

[Welshiespursboyo]

Yawn. Yet again a bunch of....
Oh I can't even be bothered, it's got that old!

Harry redknapp ftw!

 

[EastLondonYid]

Yawn. Yet again a bunch of....
Oh I can't even be bothered, it's got that old!

Harry redknapp ftw!

Simple...if you find a subject a yawn....don't read it:shrug:

 

[$hoguN]

I think alot of people are going to read this and misinterpret what VDV is actually syaing. All he has said is that 1) Harry tells them who is playing 20 mins before the match and tells them where he wants them to play during the game, while designating who will man mark who 2) VDV says that they did not work on Bale pulling off his defender and making a run to the near post at corners and asks how they could practice his sublime goal against Inter.

VDV does not say that they do no tactical preparation at all before the day of the match merely that Harry takes some of the pressure off by just walking in and telling they know their respective jobs, he also does not say we do not practice set pieces, defending or anything else, he just says that Bale's run and subsequent header were luck which was brought about from good movement and a good set piece.

Lets not get too over excited about these comments, all this article is really is just VDV saying he prefers Harry's approach in the moments before a match to Mourinho's

 

[EastLondonYid]

I think alot of people are going to read this and misinterpret what VDV is actually syaing. All he has said is that 1) Harry tells them who is playing 20 mins before the match and tells them where he wants them to play during the game, while designating who will man mark who 2) VDV says that they did not work on Bale pulling off his defender and making a run to the near post at corners and asks how they could practice his sublime goal against Inter.

VDV does not say that they do no tactical preparation at all before the day of the match merely that Harry takes some of the pressure off by just walking in and telling they know their respective jobs, he also does not say we do not practice set pieces, defending or anything else, he just says that Bale's run and subsequent header were luck which was brought about from good movement and a good set piece.

Lets not get too over excited about these comments, all this article is really is just VDV saying he prefers Harry's approach in the moments before a match to Mourinho's

exactly.............

But we are so keen to have a pop at harry its untrue....

We adore a loser like pav...but doubt a man who has transformed us.

 

[dontcallme]

I remember reading Ian Wright's autobiography. He wrote about his time in the England squad and how and why Graham Taylor froze him out. GT used to give long, boring and obvious speeches and the players stopped listening. Ian Wright blatantly wasn't paying attention and got the elbow.

Players aren't robots who need to be told exactly what they do. I don't believe football is anywhere near as tactical as many people on here like to think.

Harry gets the atmosphere within the club right but at the same time lets everybody know that he demands a high work rate in return. He doesn't treat his players like morons who need his constant instruction and our results have been very good.

There really isn't a problem here.

 

[Turbo]

Listen mate, I don't think there's a single person who doesn't agree that Harry's been great for us and that as a package he's one of the best managers we've had.

That doesn't give him a free pass on all aspects though does it? Because he's over all good doesn't mean people can't say but he's poor here and here...

The fact remains that a lot of us have been saying for a long while that even though he's a great manager his lack of tactical nouse is worrying. Tactics aren't the be all or end all, there are far more important things than tactics (our results show that!), but when two teams have equally motivated, equally good players what makes the difference?

Harry's very good at what he's good at, but his biggest failing is that he doesn't know his own weaknesses, he prefers that reductor some people employ in everything from Tea Party American politics, to culture, to science and morality... if you don't get it, it must be rubbish!

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but my fear is that Harry will reach a glass ceiling in the next couple of seasons beyond which his ability as a manager won't take him... perhaps we should be grateful England will be looking for a new manager before long?

Luck? rub of the green? Dodgy ref? Home advantage lifting the team?

all the above?

Sir Les' autobiography basically said the same about Keegan, which kinda proved the point that it takes you only so far. I think with Keegan though his personality wasn't suited to the high pressure of where they found themselves. I'd like to think if Harry ever took us there he would fair better.

 

[Lapland]

Personally, I can not say that this feels like a surprise. My attitude to Harry has always been a bit ambivalent. I have seen good things but also the parts that make me a bit hesitant ... surley with most managers =)

The fact that Harry has some shortcoming in terms of the tactical skills that I thought more noticed. Therefore, he surrounds himself with capable help coachs ....

Anders Svensson Swedish national team players who had him as coach describes him like this:

Anders Svensson apologizes that he may sound bitter, because he ended up in the freezer when Redknapp enlisted again, but his criticism is not personal, but directed at the manager's tactical skills.

- I was surprised that his tactical skills were so non-existent. I have several examples of the horror.
Like when Southampton were facing their most important match in 27 years.
In the penultimate round of games we met Crystal Palace away in an almost totally crucial game of the relegation places.
- We came to the away arena for an hour and five minutes before the match and had not had any review at all. In the locker room he just says "these are not as good as we only make our job, we will beat them."

Anders Svensson on why he is successful:

The explanation for Redknapp to succeed is that he possesses tactical spells - but his ability to create a mood in the dressing room.
- He is pleasant and easygoing and do not whine a lot, so he is usually very popular.

http://fotboll.expressen.se/internationellt/1.1370018/svenskarna-sagar-succetranaren-harry-redknapp

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

Simple...if you find a subject a yawn....don't read it:shrug:

I'll read what I like. And I don't find the 'subject' a yawn - I find the people who are STILL constantly criticising Harry a yawn. There's a difference.
It's fucking irritating...not to mention completely absurd.

 

[pjspur1961]

OK, so Harry doesn't do much in training. He picks the team, tells the Russian lad to "run about a bit". But whatever he's doing, seems to work in the majority!

The worrying bit for me is what in the hell do all the coaches do?

 

[teejay]

So are you suggesting that harry has let us down so far?

If jose had took over when harry did and turned us around from relegation contenders to CL the following season, wouldn't you be happy.

Harry, has done a magnificent job,we are on the verge of the final 16 of the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE....give the guy a break.

Very true, im happy where we have got from few years back, but I think that with Harry we are in poor position about winning anything.

With Harry when we beat Inter and other big games, players have the sort of mentality to go out and give it all to beat bigger/better team (if you think it about yourself, I think you also would be there 110%). But when it comes to smaller games, when we are favourites maybe the players dont have the mentality about giving it all, then the tactics and routine comes handy.

 

[StartingPrice]

Well, there is a reason why guys like Mourinho win. Its not because he just says go out and have fun before match.

I personally think VDV was mis-quoted.
You only have to listen to the likes of paul merson, who has played under alot of top managers, he has said many times on sky that Harry is a top tactition, the sun can take a long interview and edit it for a headline to suit them.

Besides, if Harry is as VDV describes...so what....if that gets us CL again..then who cares...."fucking run around abit" is ok with me!

That does not win titles....

Listen mate, I don't think there's a single person who doesn't agree that Harry's been great for us and that as a package he's one of the best managers we've had.

That doesn't give him a free pass on all aspects though does it? Because he's over all good doesn't mean people can't say but he's poor here and here...

The fact remains that a lot of us have been saying for a long while that even though he's a great manager his lack of tactical nouse is worrying. Tactics aren't the be all or end all, there are far more important things than tactics (our results show that!), but when two teams have equally motivated, equally good players what makes the difference?

Harry's very good at what he's good at, but his biggest failing is that he doesn't know his own weaknesses, he prefers that reductor some people employ in everything from Tea Party American politics, to culture, to science and morality... if you don't get it, it must be rubbish!

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but my fear is that Harry will reach a glass ceiling in the next couple of seasons beyond which his ability as a manager won't take him... perhaps we should be grateful England will be looking for a new manager before long?

OK, so Harry doesn't do much in training. He picks the team, tells the Russian lad to "run about a bit". But whatever he's doing, seems to work in the majority!

The worrying bit for me is what in the hell do all the coaches do?

There's so much niavity in this,and so little understanding of what a manager does.
Basically Mourinho is a Don Revie type of manager, all folders on the oppsition and tactical analysis. 'Arry is more of a Cloughie type manager (not quite as good, I'm afraid), all motivation and (to quote VDV) intuition. I have heard it said by former Forest players that they would hardly see Cloughie before match days, he didn't 'take' training, that was the Coach's job. Cloughie might watch training occasionally, to see who was moving well, etc. But having talent and being fit, that ain't a manager's job. It's the player's job, aided by the coach, to be fit, and as for talent...:shrug: What a manager like Cloug does is man management, building team spirit (often by delegation), picking the right team for the right occasion.

Anyone who has seen 'The Damned United' should get this;
"Mister Revie used to give us files on the opposition", to which Cloughie would respond, it's simple "all you've got to do is stop Player X from playing, and then play yourselves" (I paraphrase).

Both styles of management work...it is fatuous to imagine only one does. As ELY says, Rafa's probably been misquoted, and 'Arry does more work behind the scenes anyway. But to just compare him to Mourinho and say we are in trouble, or will never win things, because he has a different style to Mourinho is niavity in the extreme.

 

[adiepf]

There's so much niavity in this,and so little understanding of what a manager does.
Basically Mourinho is a Don Revie type of manager, all folders on the oppsition and tactical analysis. 'Arry is more of a Cloughie type manager (not quite as good, I'm afraid), all motivation and (to quote VDV) intuition. I have heard it said by former Forest players that they would hardly see Cloughie before match days, he didn't 'take' training, that was the Coach's job. Cloughie might watch training occasionally, to see who was moving well, etc. But having talent and being fit, that ain't a manager's job. It's the player's job, aided by the coach, to be fit, and as for talent...:shrug: What a manager like Cloug does is man management, building team spirit (often by delegation), picking the right team for the right occasion.

Anyone who has seen 'The Damned United' should get this;
"Mister Revie used to give us files on the opposition", to which Cloughie would respond, it's simple "all you've got to do is stop Player X from playing, and then play yourselves" (I paraphrase).

Both styles of management work...it is fatuous to imagine only one does. As ELY says, Rafa's probably been misquoted, and 'Arry does more work behind the scenes anyway. But to just compare him to Mourinho and say we are in trouble, or will never win things, because he has a different style to Mourinho is niavity in the extreme.

what bothers me is we are defensively awful right now & we have been terrible at set pieces (defending & attacking) for ever....

if we arent doing the needed training on set pieces etc....thats not good enough...

 

[EastLondonYid]

I'll read what I like. And I don't find the 'subject' a yawn - I find the people who are STILL constantly criticising Harry a yawn. There's a difference.
It's fucking irritating...not to mention completely absurd.

apologies ....i got wrong end of your post

 

[StartingPrice]

what bothers me is we are defensively awful right now & we have been terrible at set pieces (defending & attacking) for ever....

if we arent doing the needed training on set pieces etc....thats not good enough...

But that's not what's being said.

Firstly, again, I think ELY is right, and that, as so often with Journos, someone has not quite comprehended what is being said. I don't think Rafa means they go into training for five minutes and amble about...and then to the pub. I just thnk he means they don't do loads of the regimented stuff that he personally finds boring.

Secondly, Kevin Bond is a coach and a very good one, so is Joe Jordan. Does it really matter if it is them doing the day-to-day training stuff (what they are paid for after all) and not 'Arry. He is off doing 'manager' thangs.

Thirdly, poor as our defence has been, I really don't think it is anything whatsoever to do with 'Arry's managerial style. If it was, then how would you explain our hugely impressive defensive form last season:shrug: Isn't it more likely to be down to the personnel, and the adoption of a new tactical system (amazing isn't it that 'Arry who 'suddenly' doesn't know anything about tactics was talking at length about the need to play 4-5-1 in Europe and has, this year, adopted it).

A lot of panic sets in because a player says a manager is really good at getting his players relaxed and playing spontaneously...which is when flowing football is at its best.

Seemingly, some folk would prefer Rafa the Gaffer and his Zonal Marking:grin:

 

[jackson]

what bothers me is we are defensively awful right now & we have been terrible at set pieces (defending & attacking) for ever....

if we arent doing the needed training on set pieces etc....thats not good enough...

I agree, alot of what VdV says is down to a management style (no long speeches about tactics etc) which is one thing but a lack of working on things in training like set pieces, which I'm sure most people would agree we're very poor at, is worrying if true...

 

[14/04/91]

Gareth Bale has been quoted as saying he's done a lot of work on the training ground to improve his game.
I'd guess our coaching team concentrate on things that need work, VDV doesn't need much coaching he's that good!!

As for set pieces, I've been watching Spurs since 1983 and we've never been good at defending them. Even under George Graham we weren't great.

 

[DiscoD1882]

“Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.”


Bill Shankley. He did alright didnt he?

 

[SpurSince57]

As was continually pointed out when a previously solid defence started leaking goals from set pieces in 2006-2007 and 2007-2008, Jol hadn't suddenly forgotten how to drill a defence; you can train as much as you like, but it only takes one player (usually Chimbonda, in those days) to forget his lines for the whole carefully constructed edifice to come tumbling down. Things didn't materially improve under Random, despite all the extra training sessions we were hearing about, until we signed Woody. Then things did start getting better. Funny, that.

We've conceded just two more goals than United. Our defence isn't as tight as it could be, but it's certainly not awful.

 

[WhiteStripe]

There are always the "lurkers" on this forum waiting for any chance they can to criticise Harry.

It's laughable I tell you!! I have supported Spurs for 27 years,we have the best squad, the most competitive squad in the most competitive league, that I have seen in that time. Other managers have been heavily backed financially (some more-so than Harry), other managers have had the resources available that Harry does. Other managers have been given the freedom that Harry is afforded, but no other manager has managed to achieve what Harry has achieved.

For me, at the lane, a couple of weeks ago, watching The current European champions walk out and line up alongside the lilywhite Spurs, champions league music blaring, hairs standing up on the back of my neck, I felt a little tear in the corner of my eyes. It was emotional. I was watching something I had started to think I would never see as a Spurs fan.

I'm not saying Harry takes sole praise for this, but he has knitted a squad together, he has assembled the coaching staff, he has motivated and coached the players, like Bale, that at one point were dead and buried, and he has gotten us our highest ever EPL finish and is on the cusp of guiding us to the knock-out stages of the UCL at our very first time of asking.

Harry should get nothing but respect from Spurs fans, and the attitude of some is the exact reason we have not achieved this kind of success in my lifetime. We have been too quick to criticise our managers at the slightest glimpse of bad form.

I am happy with the way the team are playing on the whole. The brand of football Harry's "tactically inept" coaching has given us is one of, if not the best in the league. We are short of a couple of players, but Harry cannot force players to come if they are not available, or deemed too expensive.

In Harry I (and I hope We) Trust.

COYS

 

[sloth]

Your failing to understand my take on why he gets slaughtered for defeats but no tactical praise for major victories...why's that difficult to understand?

Ok, we're talking at cross purposes here, I think my original post dealt with your take on matters, but clearly you don't so I'll rephrase it to make it more explicit...

There are several factors which determine whether a team is successful or not. Of those several factors tactics comes a fair way down the list. Of more importance is the quality of the players at your disposal (this includes depth of squad), the balance of players at your disposal and team morale. Tactics comes a long way after these factors. For the truth of that, can you imagine Mourinho winning the Champions League with Blackpool? Or consider why we were poor for so long under Ramos despite his tactical sophistication, or look at Liverpool under Benitez last season.

So if we look at Spurs under Redknapp we can see a talented, deep, balanced squad of players who are extremely well motivated, this in stark contrast to the team he took over in the wake of Ramos' departure.

Thanks to Redknapp we qualified for the Champions League for the first time in two decades of trying.

So we can all see he's a manager with abundant qualities.

To answer your question directly then there are many reasons why a team wins a game and tactics are down the list. That's why we beat teams like Inter at WHL.

Some people will criticise whatever he does, others will be in love with him no matter his errors. They're two sides of the same coin imo.

For myself, I have an issue with Harry and his personality - I don't like it. I also don't do love very much. I try to keep my criticism balanced though and recognise his merits even while I think I'm right to point out his faults. If he does something tactically astute and we lose I praise him for it, if he does something I think is tactically dumb and we win I'll criticise him.

Finally, this isn't the first time people have said Harry doesn't do tactics, he himself has disparaged the emphasis people place on them often enough. I remember Clive Woodward being totally dumbfounded by Harry at Southampton, I see the quote from Svensson above and now also Van Der Vaart has come out and said something similar. Fine, tactics aren't all important and as a package Harry's very good, but has he the quality to take us to the top? Personally I don't think so.

exactly.............

But we are so keen to have a pop at harry its untrue....

We adore a loser like pav...but doubt a man who has transformed us.

I'd have doubted Jesus Christ if I'd met him - actually we probably all would have; a man who claims he can do magic... come off it! - I think everyone deserves to be doubted. It just should be informed doubt.

Luck? rub of the green? Dodgy ref? Home advantage lifting the team?

all the above?

Sir Les' autobiography basically said the same about Keegan, which kinda proved the point that it takes you only so far. I think with Keegan though his personality wasn't suited to the high pressure of where they found themselves. I'd like to think if Harry ever took us there he would fair better.

Randomness is the biggest single factor after the quality of the players. Trouble is you can do nothing about that, just hope that it evens itself out over time.

I agree, alot of what VdV says is down to a management style (no long speeches about tactics etc) which is one thing but a lack of working on things in training like set pieces, which I'm sure most people would agree we're very poor at, is worrying if true...

Absolutely right! If there weren't clear tactical deficiencies even when we win, there wouldn't be a topic 30 odd pages long about Harry's lack of tactical nouse.