Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[therhinospeaks]

Tis a pity young Luca is a Gooner.

Wonder how many Barca fans are in Real Madrid academy.

 

[ljinko888]

Walker-Peters should expect to start against Brighton next week unless the manager does something weird like Sanchez at right back again

 

[coys200]

Will be Foyth.

 

[therhinospeaks]

Will be Foyth.

Should be Foyth. Don't want to see KWP again.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Should be Foyth. Don't want to see KWP again.

i think you're overreacting a bit as whilst his performances haven't been amazing i don't think he's been especially bad either, it's just that he really needed to take the opportunity and run with it but hasn't really done that.

it's a real shame as aged 16-18 he was such a rampant attacking threat from rb and now he plays so safe and cautious to the point where he's not really impacting anything. think a number of factors have contributed to that and obviously the step up from youth to senior is a big one but maybe it's been coached out of him a bit or he's just lost the confidence to do it anymore. he does have to take some responsibility himself but like always it's the player who will take all the blame and the conclusion will be that he just wasn't good enough but no one can tell me that hardly playing in the past three years has helped him. looks like he'll be moved on in the not too distant future meaning he has wasted years of his career already, he should have been on loan ages ago and perhaps he'd be better equipped now than he currently is.

 

[allatsea]

Walker-Peters should expect to start against Brighton next week unless the manager does something weird like Sanchez at right back again

What’s he done to justify starting ?

 

[coys200]

For me the main issue with KWP is largely physicality and also lack of pace which I actually thought he had. He gets out fought to easily and simply doesn’t have the strength or pace to beat a man and he’s now 22. Just can’t see these attributes or lack of improving .

 

[EQP]

i think you're overreacting a bit as whilst his performances haven't been amazing i don't think he's been especially bad either, it's just that he really needed to take the opportunity and run with it but hasn't really done that.

it's a real shame as aged 16-18 he was such a rampant attacking threat from rb and now he plays so safe and cautious to the point where he's not really impacting anything. think a number of factors have contributed to that and obviously the step up from youth to senior is a big one but maybe it's been coached out of him a bit or he's just lost the confidence to do it anymore. he does have to take some responsibility himself but like always it's the player who will take all the blame and the conclusion will be that he just wasn't good enough but no one can tell me that hardly playing in the past three years has helped him. looks like he'll be moved on in the not too distant future meaning he has wasted years of his career already, he should have been on loan ages ago and perhaps he'd be better equipped now than he currently is.

I remember you put together and posted this compilation of KWP vs CSKA and I was so sure that he would show this level of performance when he made the jump to the 1st team.

kwpvcska - Streamable

Check out this video on Streamable using your phone, tablet or desktop.

streamable.com

 

[Blake Griffin]

I remember you put together and posted this compilation of KWP vs CSKA and I was so sure that he would show this level of performance when he made the jump to the 1st team.

kwpvcska - Streamable

Check out this video on Streamable using your phone, tablet or desktop.

streamable.com

i just hope it doesn't end the same way for skipp but i don't think anyone can say with complete confidence that it won't. where's his next game coming from? maybe the fa cup if we get the right draw? brilliant ...

 

[C0YS]

People with terrible memories. He played very well against Aston Villa. Then basically got injured and this negativity started. All very odd. I don't think he is a clear starter, and his first team appearances have been very inconsistent but with a run out I think he might do alright.

 

[C0YS]

i just hope it doesn't end the same way for skipp but i don't think anyone can say with complete confidence that it won't. where's his next game coming from? maybe the fa cup if we get the right draw? brilliant ...

Wait? What happens?

The gap between PL and youth football is incredibly high, and players can rarely replicate their performances with the first team. Walker Peters is still very much got time to prove fans wrong. Let's say he has got more support than Rose did at his age. Even Kyle Walker there was a period he was considered a complete liability.

Skipp is super young, but like last season I think we will see him in the PL. But he's got another 2-3 years before he should be expecting to be in the 18 man squad. And what? He is currently 19th/20th something like that.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Wait? What happens?

The gap between PL and youth football is incredibly high, and players can rarely replicate their performances with the first team. Walker Peters is still very much got time to prove fans wrong. Let's say he has got more support than Rose did at his age. Even Kyle Walker there was a period he was considered a complete liability.

Skipp is super young, but like last season I think we will see him in the PL. But he's got another 2-3 years before he should be expecting to be in the 18 man squad. And what? He is currently 19th/20th something like that.

i make him more like 23rd/24th and at best 6th in his position but possibly 7th, 8th or 9th depending on how a couple of the other players are viewed. last season was a positive one for skipp but it's about progression and on the face of it he's going backwards in poch's thinking, it's difficult to see where any games are going to come from. if he's not playing first team then we could loan him but poch won't allow that, he could play u23s/u19s but same story. people will bleat on at how dele and sessegnon benefited from getting regular football at a young age but with our own players we're supposed to pretend it's a good thing that they spend years not playing any games.

 

[C0YS]

i make him more like 23rd/24th and at best 6th in his position but possibly 7th, 8th or 9th depending on how a couple of the other players are viewed. last season was a positive one for skipp but it's about progression and on the face of it he's going backwards in poch's thinking, it's difficult to see where any games are going to come from. if he's not playing first team then we could loan him but poch won't allow that, he could play u23s/u19s but same story. people will bleat on at how dele and sessegnon benefited from getting regular football at a young age but with our own players we're supposed to pretend it's a good thing that they spend years not playing any games.

He's regularly featured on the bench. Seems like he's slipped behind Wanayama, who's getting game time. But I think that will change by Jan. He seems to be a part of the team right now. I think he will get 15+ games this season.

Maybe but I think the game focus is very much a fan thing more than anything else. I mean youth games are useful to an extent. But the level is so poor.

I think a lot of times fans do make excusses for why a player failed to make it. Even though this will happen to the magority of highly rated players, regardless of how their path towards the first team is.

For me KWP is a lot better now than he was in his first appearances in the squad and I have hope for him. Though I suspect this is his make or break season. Fans have very bizarrely scapegoated him during his injury. Which comes in part out of the frustration that he isn't that exciting he isn't what they wished he was. But he got a lot of plaudits against Villa. Here and elsewhere. The problem is every performance is super highlighted when you are breaking through. To the point where passable performances are seen as negatives. Skipp had this problem as well.

 

[ljinko888]

Should be Foyth. Don't want to see KWP again.

Poch rarely throws players in the starting line up who have not trained properly. Kane is probably the exception. Foyth is just back from injury and probably will have to wait just like more senior players had to.

In fact given we are out of the league cup I struggle to see Foyth starting until the FA Cup is underway providing we have no injury problems. The fact we've signed Ndombele + Skipp emerging means Dier is perhaps a defender again in Poch's eyes.

 

[therhinospeaks]

i think you're overreacting a bit as whilst his performances haven't been amazing i don't think he's been especially bad either, it's just that he really needed to take the opportunity and run with it but hasn't really done that.

it's a real shame as aged 16-18 he was such a rampant attacking threat from rb and now he plays so safe and cautious to the point where he's not really impacting anything. think a number of factors have contributed to that and obviously the step up from youth to senior is a big one but maybe it's been coached out of him a bit or he's just lost the confidence to do it anymore. he does have to take some responsibility himself but like always it's the player who will take all the blame and the conclusion will be that he just wasn't good enough but no one can tell me that hardly playing in the past three years has helped him. looks like he'll be moved on in the not too distant future meaning he has wasted years of his career already, he should have been on loan ages ago and perhaps he'd be better equipped now than he currently is.

I agree with this in its entirety.

 

[danielneeds]

i think you're overreacting a bit as whilst his performances haven't been amazing i don't think he's been especially bad either, it's just that he really needed to take the opportunity and run with it but hasn't really done that.

it's a real shame as aged 16-18 he was such a rampant attacking threat from rb and now he plays so safe and cautious to the point where he's not really impacting anything. think a number of factors have contributed to that and obviously the step up from youth to senior is a big one but maybe it's been coached out of him a bit or he's just lost the confidence to do it anymore. he does have to take some responsibility himself but like always it's the player who will take all the blame and the conclusion will be that he just wasn't good enough but no one can tell me that hardly playing in the past three years has helped him. looks like he'll be moved on in the not too distant future meaning he has wasted years of his career already, he should have been on loan ages ago and perhaps he'd be better equipped now than he currently is.

It's hard to say whether the lack of loans has hindered him. Winks had a similar lack of games from around 18-21 and then took to the first so well. I think with KWP he just lacks that little bit of cast-iron self-belief, eye of the tiger, or call it what you will, that the likes of Kane, Winks, and the majority of academy graduates who make it in the PL have.

 

[Blake Griffin]

It's hard to say whether the lack of loans has hindered him. Winks had a similar lack of games from around 18-21 and then took to the first so well. I think with KWP he just lacks that little bit of cast-iron self-belief, eye of the tiger, or call it what you will, that the likes of Kane, Winks, and the majority of academy graduates who make it in the PL have.

winks was actually still playing u21s during those years though and whilst that's far from ideal i'd still say it's preferable to not playing at all - as is the case with kwp and others. winks probably benefited from the fact that onomah was poch's chosen one at that point as well so he was allowed to carry on as normal. despite that though winks is an outlier, i don't think one player in five years is enough to say that it's working as intended. i often see people bring up a list of academy players we've sold and the money they've brought in but the vast majority of them pre-date pochettino so it's not great on that side of things either looking at the more recent trend. i'm not putting this all on poch and i've said above that there's a few things i think we can improve in the academy from the bottom up but he's definitely not helping matters.

i put this in the parrott thread but whilst i don't think there's a one cap fits all approach, i would say that getting players out on loan early(as we did in the days of kane/townsend/mason/carroll/caulker etc will on average bring a greater return than our current way of no one plays and no one goes anywhere.

 

[danielneeds]

winks was actually still playing u21s during those years though and whilst that's far from ideal i'd still say it's preferable to not playing at all - as is the case with kwp and others. winks probably benefited from the fact that onomah was poch's chosen one at that point as well so he was allowed to carry on as normal. despite that though winks is an outlier, i don't think one player in five years is enough to say that it's working as intended. i often see people bring up a list of academy players we've sold and the money they've brought in but the vast majority of them pre-date pochettino so it's not great on that side of things either looking at the more recent trend. i'm not putting this all on poch and i've said above that there's a few things i think we can improve in the academy from the bottom up but he's definitely not helping matters.

i put this in the parrott thread but whilst i don't think there's a one cap fits all approach, i would say that getting players out on loan early(as we did in the days of kane/townsend/mason/carroll/caulker etc will on average bring a greater return than our current way of no one plays and no one goes anywhere.

It's hard to know what the benefits are this season for Parrott. Now we're out of the league cup, I'd say that only a catastrophic Kane injury would see him on the bench for the first team and he doesn't seem to be playing much youth football. Obviously training with Kane is gonna be a huge benefit for him in setting the standards he's got to reach, but at the moment I do wonder what the plan is.

 

[nicdic]

It's hard to know what the benefits are this season for Parrott. Now we're out of the league cup, I'd say that only a catastrophic Kane injury would see him on the bench for the first team and he doesn't seem to be playing much youth football. Obviously training with Kane is gonna be a huge benefit for him in setting the standards he's got to reach, but at the moment I do wonder what the plan is.

One of Skipp or Parrott should be on the bench every week. I never want to see Wanyama and Dier on the bench together.

 

[mill]

One of Skipp or Parrott should be on the bench every week. I never want to see Wanyama and Dier on the bench together.

You’re right but poch’s approach seems to be go for the most experience regardless of position