Ratings vs Norwich

[Conando]

Friedel, 8, MOM
Walker, 3, an embarrassment in possession, static to say the least without the ball!.
BAE, 5, At least got the final 3rd, and when there delivered something, lucky for the "pen".
Gallas, 5, Looks shaky at all times.
Vertonghen, 6, looks overwhelmed with physicality, great on the ball, our most creative player until Dembele's arrival.
Sandro, 3, simple balls were going astray, I understand why he came off.
Livermore, 4, just not up to the task he has been given.
Bale, 4, was he playing? is so lazy at times it is frightening.
Lennon, 5, offered little, but made some things happen, I think probably affected by Walkers ineptitude.
Sigurdsson, 4, not in the game, mainly due to the 2 behind him, although was surprised that his touch was so poor at times.
Defoe, 3, why is he still here, arguably a good striker, but doesn't have the all round game we need.

Dembele, 7, great debut.
Ade, 5, offered something up front, obviously not match fit.

Due to the mockery of a midfield 2 we started with, we had to go long or wide, too often and too quickly, cured in part by the arrival of Dembele, who was great when he entered the fray. Up until that point, nobody wanted the ball, we looked so ponderous in possession, which makes us unable to stretch teams, movement off the ball is woeful, little support to the player in possession.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Was thinking about either putting carroll or vertonghen in Centre mid only those two can actually pick a pass

 

[jamesc0le]

vertonghen in Centre mid

fm you should be the manager that is actually a good idea at the mo.

sandro and verts in the middle for a couple of games
moosse in gifs position for a bit


either that or send sandro back to brasil for a weeks rest, it can do no harm surely

 

[Bus-Conductor]

That article is bang on Sloth.

At this rate I wouldn't mind seeing young Tom Carroll in a three with Dembele and Sandro.

I think we are crying out for a three. I really wish we'd gone in for Cabaye or Allen instead of wasting time on the Moutinho deal.

We could have spent about 2/3rds of the money (fee and wages) and then had money to spend on a creative player nearer the deadline.

A three of:

Allen/Cabaye Sandro Dembele

Would have been very good. I think we now have to go with either Jenas or Carroll until Parker gets back:

Jenas/parker Sandro Dembele


You have two dynamic box to boxers either side of Sandro providing protection. Jenas has always done that water carrying role very well (despite the utter bollocs written by the dimwits) he regularly sees more ball and gives it away less than players like Hudd, Sandro etc and his range and vision isn't top drawer but it's much better that he's given credit for, which is why he's always just about matched or bettered Hudds goal/assist rate. He will get into the opposition box if given license to do so, but still get back and defend.

The logic of getting rid of VDV is terrible under the circumstances, but shipping out GDS who (despite divided opinions) could have played instead of Lennon and even played in the Adebayor position for Mexico in the Olympics. If we had upgrades to come in fair enough, but we haven't. Our bench is so light on people who can come on and change or influence games now.

 

[jamesc0le]

jenas is gone mate. THANKFUCK

or is he? was i dreaming?

 

[Bulletspur]

Agree with all that BC, and an excellent point on the likes of Pienaar, Kranky etc..anybody who could of added something different to Lennon, or the very averagre Bale at the moment.

I was surprised with the lack of tempo, there just doesn't seem to be any urgency in our play whatsoever, we looked nervous and frightened to actually play some football. We wern't pressing either, it just seemed like a disjointed, fragile and unsure performance. The worst of our three performances by a distance. I was encouraged after Newcastle (obviously disappointed by the result), a little worried after West Brom - but after today I'm nervous.

Been very disappointed with Bale and Walker so far. I know Walker isn't as cultured as Bale, far from it, but practically every cross he attempted to day he fucked up - it was so careless.

Still, its going to take time for AVB to get his methods and ideas across and for them to come to fruition, I knew that would be the case so nothing has changed in my eyes, its still early days and I prepared myself for a slow start.

I do have reservations over Gallas though, something isn't right for me there. Its just not inspiring confidence, he looks a little clumsy and unsure in terms of anticipating and reading etc,.

I agree with both you and BC. With regards to the Newcastle game compared to the other two, I think Kaboul made the difference in terms of stability at the back, therefore we seemed more in control.

 

[steve]

When I saw the team at 2:30 my heart sank - the same team as last week minus our best player.

I watched a lot of Swansea last season, a friend is a big fan, and I was underwhelmed when we signed Sig - if I'd known we were selling VDV I would've been gutted. He's a decent technician, he scores goals, but the rest of his game in open play is neglibile. I watched him closely yesterday. He was actually knackered at half time because he never stopped moving, the problem is he doesn't know what runs to make, how to find space and he's moving about in areas where he can't receive the ball - it's a waste of energy. A few times he dropped short, received and returned the ball from someone and then just ran away into an area where he was useless to the player on the ball. It's night and day between him and VDV, asking a boy to do a man's job.

A lot of shit has been talked about VDV, he's a luxury player, he only plays for 60 minutes, doesn't work hard enough off the ball, he doesn't fit into AVB's system etc. Since when did a top class player not fit into a managers system? Especially a manager who's just lost 3 other creative players (Modric, Kranky and Pienaar) and hasn't been gifted the one player he really wanted. I wonder would people say the same about Hoddle were he playing now?
VDV on top of Modric will be sorely missed, both always willing to take the ball, both capable of opening teams up in tight areas.

Use throw ins yesterday as an example. Who was coming short to take the ball and return it to the thrower or turn out with the ball and open play up? We took it for granted with Mod and VDV, at times yesterday we were reduced to giving the ball away in areas we should've been building attacks from. Levy must take some stick - if you sell VDV you MUST get some sort of replacement of the required quality - if AVB agreed on Sig as that replacement then he should take some stick too. I'd have kept Kranky and saved £3m personally.

But there were other worries yesterday from a coaching point of view. Sig goes off and Bale (one of our best headers of a ball) is taking corners whilst wee little Aaron Lennon is standing on the edge of the box - why is this happening? Get Lennon to take corners or Benny or ANYONE but Bale. Sandro and Livermore we know are limited but why can't they pass and then move to take the ball again? I'm watching Soton now and their players (not one of whom would get near our team) and they pass and move throughout the team in every position. It's not that hard to coach surely? The lack of movement yesterday was galling at times, sometimes Benny picked the ball up on the left in their half and there was no one within 15 yards or trying to get near him to give him an option.

I can only assume Adebayor isn't fit (which doesn't say much for him) if Defoe is starting. If we're selling players for decent money who don't fit AVB's system I can see no better example than Defoe. Can't hold the ball up, easy to mark, unintelligent, selfish etc etc. We've said it so many times before.

Thank fuck for Dembele whose moment of class brought about the goal - he needs to play every week and we need him fit. I'm curious as to how Dempsey will be used - off Adebayor or instead of Lennon? It shows how important Moutinho was, as we could've played him Parker/Sandro and Dembele and played Dempsey instead of Lennon for example. It would've given us good options and cover. Without him we're a bit fucked and I think we can kiss the top 4 goodbye, the only hope is we cling onto the rest and buy in January which I fully expect now.

We're missing Kaboul, Verts hasn't fully settled and Gallas seems to suffer in the later stages of games. I thought Benny was atrocious to start with yesterday but seemed to improve second half and the less said about Walker the better. Brad is an excellent shot stopper - will Lloris command the area like he can't?

Things will be clearer in 2 weeks - we need Dembele, Dempsey and Adebayor in and Parker back and we need AVB getting the best out of them. He needs time to do his thang but I'm concerned about his judgement. I know Sandro was poor yesterday but does he really rate Livermore as a better player overall? We shall see...

 

[nedley]

Simon Davies, GDS, Bentley, Kranjcar etc. Lennon has seen off a fair few competitors for RW in his time, OK some are not out and out right wingers but neither is Dempsey

Oh the threat of GDS.

They really had a tussle for the starting berth didn't they.

Oh the threat of Bentley.

They really had a tussle for that starting berth didn't they.

Krancjar played on the left - rarely did he play on the right.

Davies wasn't even at the club at the same time so you got that wrong.

Like I said Lennon has little or no competiton since he's been here.

I look forward to Dempsey giving him a kick up the ass. And yes, he's played many-a-time or the right of a front 3.

 

[Mr Pink]

When I saw the team at 2:30 my heart sank - the same team as last week minus our best player.

I watched a lot of Swansea last season, a friend is a big fan, and I was underwhelmed when we signed Sig - if I'd known we were selling VDV I would've been gutted. He's a decent technician, he scores goals, but the rest of his game in open play is neglibile. I watched him closely yesterday. He was actually knackered at half time because he never stopped moving, the problem is he doesn't know what runs to make, how to find space and he's moving about in areas where he can't receive the ball - it's a waste of energy. A few times he dropped short, received and returned the ball from someone and then just ran away into an area where he was useless to the player on the ball. It's night and day between him and VDV, asking a boy to do a man's job.

A lot of shit has been talked about VDV, he's a luxury player, he only plays for 60 minutes, doesn't work hard enough off the ball, he doesn't fit into AVB's system etc. Since when did a top class player not fit into a managers system? Especially a manager who's just lost 3 other creative players (Modric, Kranky and Pienaar) and hasn't been gifted the one player he really wanted. I wonder would people say the same about Hoddle were he playing now?
VDV on top of Modric will be sorely missed, both always willing to take the ball, both capable of opening teams up in tight areas.

Use throw ins yesterday as an example. Who was coming short to take the ball and return it to the thrower or turn out with the ball and open play up? We took it for granted with Mod and VDV, at times yesterday we were reduced to giving the ball away in areas we should've been building attacks from. Levy must take some stick - if you sell VDV you MUST get some sort of replacement of the required quality - if AVB agreed on Sig as that replacement then he should take some stick too. I'd have kept Kranky and saved £3m personally.

But there were other worries yesterday from a coaching point of view. Sig goes off and Bale (one of our best headers of a ball) is taking corners whilst wee little Aaron Lennon is standing on the edge of the box - why is this happening? Get Lennon to take corners or Benny or ANYONE but Bale. Sandro and Livermore we know are limited but why can't they pass and then move to take the ball again? I'm watching Soton now and their players (not one of whom would get near our team) and they pass and move throughout the team in every position. It's not that hard to coach surely? The lack of movement yesterday was galling at times, sometimes Benny picked the ball up on the left in their half and there was no one within 15 yards or trying to get near him to give him an option.

I can only assume Adebayor isn't fit (which doesn't say much for him) if Defoe is starting. If we're selling players for decent money who don't fit AVB's system I can see no better example than Defoe. Can't hold the ball up, easy to mark, unintelligent, selfish etc etc. We've said it so many times before.

Thank fuck for Dembele whose moment of class brought about the goal - he needs to play every week and we need him fit. I'm curious as to how Dempsey will be used - off Adebayor or instead of Lennon? It shows how important Moutinho was, as we could've played him Parker/Sandro and Dembele and played Dempsey instead of Lennon for example. It would've given us good options and cover. Without him we're a bit fucked and I think we can kiss the top 4 goodbye, the only hope is we cling onto the rest and buy in January which I fully expect now.

We're missing Kaboul, Verts hasn't fully settled and Gallas seems to suffer in the later stages of games. I thought Benny was atrocious to start with yesterday but seemed to improve second half and the less said about Walker the better. Brad is an excellent shot stopper - will Lloris command the area like he can't?

Things will be clearer in 2 weeks - we need Dembele, Dempsey and Adebayor in and Parker back and we need AVB
getting the best out of them. He needs time to do his thang but I'm concerned about his judgement. I know Sandro was poor yesterday but does he really rate Livermore as a better player overall? We shall see...

This is grim reading, but unfortunately I agree with most of it. I didn't want to start jumping on any of the new players yet, but Sig does worry me. I've been very unimpressed with his start and its not like the League is new to him. Still he is a good little player but I think he'll be on the bench more often that not when Dempsey works his way into the side.

He's a good finisher but there is something seriously lacking with his contribution in open play when we are trying to build attacks, just doesn't see to have the knack of good passing and movement..yet.

I would of done anything to have Kranjcar or Pienaar in the squad at the moment. I think it was a real mistake selling Pienaar, I was hoping he would of been given a chance this season. I can sort of understand Kranjcar being sold with AVB's consent (I know he started after he was sold) given he's not really going to press and work hard off the ball, but Pienaar - he would of worked like fuck given the chance, and he had the quality on the ball.

Levy is an excellent negotiator and he's totally right to stick to his model, however its very worrying that we 'failed' (not sure how hard we really tried) to get in a proper ball player who can pull strings from deep.

 

[Mr-T]

Oh the threat of GDS.

They really had a tussle for the starting berth didn't they.

Oh the threat of Bentley.

They really had a tussle for that starting berth didn't they.

Krancjar played on the left - rarely did he play on the right.

Davies wasn't even at the club at the same time so you got that wrong.

Like I said Lennon has little or no competiton since he's been here.

I look forward to Dempsey giving him a kick up the ass. And yes, he's played many-a-time or the right of a front 3.

Lennon was Davies replacement under Jol , he was an upgrade.

The point being that Kranjcar, GDS and Bentley were all full internationals and considered good players yet none of them could displace Lennon.

Personally I think Dempseys versatility just gives us options in all attacking areas

 

[THOWIG]

fm you should be the manager that is actually a good idea at the mo.

sandro and verts in the middle for a couple of games
moosse in gifs position for a bit


either that or send sandro back to brasil for a weeks rest, it can do no harm surely

I suggested that we should sign Vertonghen a few seasons ago when he played in midfield. In my opinion it's his best position. I also think he could play as a sweeper, but that would involve a drastic change in shape.

 

[nedley]

Lennon was Davies replacement under Jol , he was an upgrade.

The point being that Kranjcar, GDS and Bentley were all full internationals and considered good players yet none of them could displace Lennon.

Personally I think Dempseys versatility just gives us options in all attacking areas

So he didn't 'fight off' competition from Davies. As I said.

Like ive said - Lennon hasn't had to 'fight' for his starting berth.

I hope Dempsey gives him that challenge.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

it would be interestion to know Spurs results with Livremore when is on the pitch..

it wouldn't hide the fact, Bale & Lennon are shocking these days..

I also questioning AVB goodness in dreassing room, you can't question all of these players plus Chelsea players..

Glenn Hoddle was right before AVB arrival, Levy put himself inunnecessary position to sack Redknapp, and it would be a huge a pressure on AVB at his start..

 

[ShelfSide18]

I had a strangely poignant moment on Saturday after the game, I was sat in the same Shoreditch bar as I was almost 2 years ago where I had a Real Madrid fan falling over himself to tell me how much he loved Spurs, Modric, VDV, Bale in particular. This was a few days after the Inter home game where we'd scored perhaps my favourite Spurs goal where Modric bamboozled their defence and slid in Rafa who finished and he and the stadium went absolutely mental. Mod and VDV were for 2 years the brains behind our success, the 2 players that got us moving, always available for a pass and then found the right pass themselves. It's often you really see what they bring to you when they aren't there, and that was against Norwich on Saturday.

It's not just to brilliant things they do, but the consistent passing and moving of the ball. When we talk of XXX made X amount of passes it really does matter, because when you have a lot of the ball you need to work defences around, back and forth, side to side. Quickly and incisively, and when that space opens up as a physically and mentally weary defender strays out of position they can find the right pass. Not once did we ever look like doing this to Norwich, we saw a lot of ball but it was defined by a complete lack of imagination, speed of thought and movement. These last few seasons we've seen plodders get on OK because every time they look up they see a Modric, a VDV, even a Kranjcar, now they look up and see another plodder or someone who is as equally reliant on some craft and ingenuity on the ball like Lennon or Bale. It's worrying, and they have to get used to the fact that Mod and VDV aren't there any more, they need to take responsibility for this, rather than shift the responsibility to someone equally as limited in the brains department. It's not difficult to play simple pass and move football, Soton outplayed Utd on the ball for a spell yesterday - limited players passing then moving, it's obvious what flaws in HRs coaching have come apparent when you take VDV and Modric out the side. Can AVB change this? Should he already have changed this?

We may not be as watchable, we may not have Mod and VDV to provide us with that real quality that has seen Modric go to one of the best sides in world football, and has already seen VDV pass through there himself - but if teams like Swansea can drill average players into playing good, passing moving football the we certainly can, and it needs to happen soon. And that means Dembele must start every game now (which I imagine he will), because he was the only one who showed that he could pass the ball and move, that he could arrive in the final third and do something useful with it, or at least try too (he isn't going to offer the final third craft of Mod and VDV though).

Selection wise I guess AVB saw Ade as still well off match fitness, as I'd want him sacked on the spot if he sees Defoe ahead of Ade in the pecking order, even the moron who sits in front of me at WHL can see this and he labelled Modric as a 'Championship Player' once. I can understand leaving Dembele on the bench, but thank fuck he came on eh. Taking Sandro off for Livermore was very odd, at least Sandro broke forward a few times although he never looks like doing anything with it when he arrives, just marginally more than Zokora I guess. Can't see him becoming the box to box man I thought he may turn into being.

The change to 442 was odd too, but I guess Defoe is always worth planting one in despite of his limited contribution, but I would have taken him off for a straight swap myself.

Friedel 8 Some great, great saves but as ever, his inability to come off his line invites pressure on us. We look very frail from set pieces, the best weapon in dealing with crosses is the guy who can use his hands, no?
Walker 4 The best thing he did all day was bollock Friedel for not coming off his line, but in the context of his own performance, that was fucking rich of him to do so.
Ekotto 5 He acts like a barometer of how well we are playing, when we are passing and moving well he gets involved and uses the ball intelligently, when he has no options he looks entirely lost on the ball. Still lets in crosses come in too easily.
Gallas 6 Alright, but nearly cocked up when he chested the ball back to Friedel stupidly.
Verthongen 6 Ok, but let down by fuck all movement and offering for the ball in front of him which must be particularly odd for someone schooled in the Ajax academy.
Sandro 6 Not his best 45 minutes showing, 1 very good driving run was interrupted by Defoe standing brainlessly in his way, who then blamed Sandro for some reason like the greedy kid in the playground, an infant school playground.
Livermore 5 Ok when surrounded by Modric and VDV, in their absence his limitations completely exposed. Not confident in himself to drive forward with the ball and when he eventually, in frustration, tried to play some incisive balls you could see the lack of confidence in himself to pull it off (Steve was bang on about this).
Lennon 6 A few bright moments early doors, but faded miserably really.
Bale 5 Poor game, must work on his movement in behind defences.
Siggy 4 I will give him time, but this game passed him by. He often moved ahead of the ball into a congested area whereas VDV was so adept at just dropping, drifting wide into space. It's why Siggy averages about half as many passes a game than VDV. It's clear he is going to fire in a few goals though, but so did VDV.
Defoe 4 Greedy and ineffective.

Dembele 8 Thank god he came on, passed and moved, great goal, and he's going to be a busy **** off the ball too. Good signing

This game knocked my positive outlook massively, we need to improve rapidly.

 

[Nocando]

When I saw the team at 2:30 my heart sank - the same team as last week minus our best player.

I watched a lot of Swansea last season, a friend is a big fan, and I was underwhelmed when we signed Sig - if I'd known we were selling VDV I would've been gutted. He's a decent technician, he scores goals, but the rest of his game in open play is neglibile. I watched him closely yesterday. He was actually knackered at half time because he never stopped moving, the problem is he doesn't know what runs to make, how to find space and he's moving about in areas where he can't receive the ball - it's a waste of energy. A few times he dropped short, received and returned the ball from someone and then just ran away into an area where he was useless to the player on the ball. It's night and day between him and VDV, asking a boy to do a man's job.

A lot of shit has been talked about VDV, he's a luxury player, he only plays for 60 minutes, doesn't work hard enough off the ball, he doesn't fit into AVB's system etc. Since when did a top class player not fit into a managers system? Especially a manager who's just lost 3 other creative players (Modric, Kranky and Pienaar) and hasn't been gifted the one player he really wanted. I wonder would people say the same about Hoddle were he playing now?
VDV on top of Modric will be sorely missed, both always willing to take the ball, both capable of opening teams up in tight areas.

Use throw ins yesterday as an example. Who was coming short to take the ball and return it to the thrower or turn out with the ball and open play up? We took it for granted with Mod and VDV, at times yesterday we were reduced to giving the ball away in areas we should've been building attacks from. Levy must take some stick - if you sell VDV you MUST get some sort of replacement of the required quality - if AVB agreed on Sig as that replacement then he should take some stick too. I'd have kept Kranky and saved £3m personally.

But there were other worries yesterday from a coaching point of view. Sig goes off and Bale (one of our best headers of a ball) is taking corners whilst wee little Aaron Lennon is standing on the edge of the box - why is this happening? Get Lennon to take corners or Benny or ANYONE but Bale. Sandro and Livermore we know are limited but why can't they pass and then move to take the ball again? I'm watching Soton now and their players (not one of whom would get near our team) and they pass and move throughout the team in every position. It's not that hard to coach surely? The lack of movement yesterday was galling at times, sometimes Benny picked the ball up on the left in their half and there was no one within 15 yards or trying to get near him to give him an option.

I can only assume Adebayor isn't fit (which doesn't say much for him) if Defoe is starting. If we're selling players for decent money who don't fit AVB's system I can see no better example than Defoe. Can't hold the ball up, easy to mark, unintelligent, selfish etc etc. We've said it so many times before.

Thank fuck for Dembele whose moment of class brought about the goal - he needs to play every week and we need him fit. I'm curious as to how Dempsey will be used - off Adebayor or instead of Lennon? It shows how important Moutinho was, as we could've played him Parker/Sandro and Dembele and played Dempsey instead of Lennon for example. It would've given us good options and cover. Without him we're a bit fucked and I think we can kiss the top 4 goodbye, the only hope is we cling onto the rest and buy in January which I fully expect now.

We're missing Kaboul, Verts hasn't fully settled and Gallas seems to suffer in the later stages of games. I thought Benny was atrocious to start with yesterday but seemed to improve second half and the less said about Walker the better. Brad is an excellent shot stopper - will Lloris command the area like he can't?

Things will be clearer in 2 weeks - we need Dembele, Dempsey and Adebayor in and Parker back and we need AVB getting the best out of them. He needs time to do his thang but I'm concerned about his judgement. I know Sandro was poor yesterday but does he really rate Livermore as a better player overall? We shall see...

Dude that's an excellent post, every bit of it is bang on the money, esp the bits about VDV.

 

[Supersi32]

This is grim reading, but unfortunately I agree with most of it. I didn't want to start jumping on any of the new players yet, but Sig does worry me. I've been very unimpressed with his start and its not like the League is new to him. Still he is a good little player but I think he'll be on the bench more often that not when Dempsey walks his way into the side.

He's a good finisher but there is something seriously lacking with his contribution in open play when we are trying to build attacks, just doesn't see to have the knack of good passing and movement..yet.

I would of done anything to have Kranjcar or Pienaar in the squad at the moment. I think it was a real mistake selling Pienaar, I was hoping he would of been given a chance this season. I can sort of understand Kranjcar being sold with AVB's consent (I know he started after he was sold) given he's not really going to press and work hard off the ball, but Pienaar - he would of worked like fuck given the chance, and he had the quality on the ball.

Levy is an excellent negotiator and he's totally right to stick to his model, however its very worrying that we 'failed' (not sure how hard we really tried) to get in a proper ball player who can pull strings from deep.

Fixed...

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Honestly I have watched Gylfi closely over the last 6 months and fuck knows what's wrong with him seems nervous un-loved and not sure on what role to play!

I'm going to see tonight if I can get one of the swans players to get in touch with him to see what's wrong with him and then I will report Back

 

[Francis Gibbs]

Friedel 8 - outstanding game
Walker 4 - awful in possession
Gallas 5 - looked very shaky
Verts 6 - composed but not commanding
BAE 4 - poor in possession and very luck re the Pen when caught on the wrong side
Lennon 5 - couple of bursts early with no end product then disappeared
Sandro 6 - did ok good drives forward and covering
Livermore 4 - limited in the extreme did nothing wrong per se but then did very little above average
Bale 6 - not his best but always looked capable of being a threat
Sig 4 - Oh dear, worked hard but looked out of his depth as the game went on around him
Defoe 4 - might as well have had nobody up front

Demebele - 7 good goal and added some drive to the midfield
Huddlestone - 4 watching the game for their goal and a rash tackle
Adebayor - 5 will be generous as looked a long way from being fit

 

[sloth]

I had a strangely poignant moment on Saturday after the game, I was sat in the same Shoreditch bar as I was almost 2 years ago where I had a Real Madrid fan falling over himself to tell me how much he loved Spurs, Modric, VDV, Bale in particular. This was a few days after the Inter home game where we'd scored perhaps my favourite Spurs goal where Modric bamboozled their defence and slid in Rafa who finished and he and the stadium went absolutely mental. Mod and VDV were for 2 years the brains behind our success, the 2 players that got us moving, always available for a pass and then found the right pass themselves. It's often you really see what they bring to you when they aren't there, and that was against Norwich on Saturday.

It's not just to brilliant things they do, but the consistent passing and moving of the ball. When we talk of XXX made X amount of passes it really does matter, because when you have a lot of the ball you need to work defences around, back and forth, side to side. Quickly and incisively, and when that space opens up as a physically and mentally weary defender strays out of position they can find the right pass. Not once did we ever look like doing this to Norwich, we saw a lot of ball but it was defined by a complete lack of imagination, speed of thought and movement. These last few seasons we've seen plodders get on OK because every time they look up they see a Modric, a VDV, even a Kranjcar, now they look up and see another plodder or someone who is as equally reliant on some craft and ingenuity on the ball like Lennon or Bale. It's worrying, and they have to get used to the fact that Mod and VDV aren't there any more, they need to take responsibility for this, rather than shift the responsibility to someone equally as limited in the brains department. It's not difficult to play simple pass and move football, Soton outplayed Utd on the ball for a spell yesterday - limited players passing then moving, it's obvious what flaws in HRs coaching have come apparent when you take VDV and Modric out the side. Can AVB change this? Should he already have changed this?

We may not be as watchable, we may not have Mod and VDV to provide us with that real quality that has seen Modric go to one of the best sides in world football, and has already seen VDV pass through there himself - but if teams like Swansea can drill average players into playing good, passing moving football the we certainly can, and it needs to happen soon. And that means Dembele must start every game now (which I imagine he will), because he was the only one who showed that he could pass the ball and move, that he could arrive in the final third and do something useful with it, or at least try too (he isn't going to offer the final third craft of Mod and VDV though).

Selection wise I guess AVB saw Ade as still well off match fitness, as I'd want him sacked on the spot if he sees Defoe ahead of Ade in the pecking order, even the moron who sits in front of me at WHL can see this and he labelled Modric as a 'Championship Player' once. I can understand leaving Dembele on the bench, but thank fuck he came on eh. Taking Sandro off for Livermore was very odd, at least Sandro broke forward a few times although he never looks like doing anything with it when he arrives, just marginally more than Zokora I guess. Can't see him becoming the box to box man I thought he may turn into being.

The change to 442 was odd too, but I guess Defoe is always worth planting one in despite of his limited contribution, but I would have taken him off for a straight swap myself.

Friedel 8 Some great, great saves but as ever, his inability to come off his line invites pressure on us. We look very frail from set pieces, the best weapon in dealing with crosses is the guy who can use his hands, no?
Walker 4 The best thing he did all day was bollock Friedel for not coming off his line, but in the context of his own performance, that was fucking rich of him to do so.
Ekotto 5 He acts like a barometer of how well we are playing, when we are passing and moving well he gets involved and uses the ball intelligently, when he has no options he looks entirely lost on the ball. Still lets in crosses come in too easily.
Gallas 6 Alright, but nearly cocked up when he chested the ball back to Friedel stupidly.
Verthongen 6 Ok, but let down by fuck all movement and offering for the ball in front of him which must be particularly odd for someone schooled in the Ajax academy.
Sandro 6 Not his best 45 minutes showing, 1 very good driving run was interrupted by Defoe standing brainlessly in his way, who then blamed Sandro for some reason like the greedy kid in the playground, an infant school playground.
Livermore 5 Ok when surrounded by Modric and VDV, in their absence his limitations completely exposed. Not confident in himself to drive forward with the ball and when he eventually, in frustration, tried to play some incisive balls you could see the lack of confidence in himself to pull it off (Steve was bang on about this).
Lennon 6 A few bright moments early doors, but faded miserably really.
Bale 5 Poor game, must work on his movement in behind defences.
Siggy 4 I will give him time, but this game passed him by. He often moved ahead of the ball into a congested area whereas VDV was so adept at just dropping, drifting wide into space. It's why Siggy averages about half as many passes a game than VDV. It's clear he is going to fire in a few goals though, but so did VDV.
Defoe 4 Greedy and ineffective.

Dembele 8 Thank god he came on, passed and moved, great goal, and he's going to be a busy **** off the ball too. Good signing

This game knocked my positive outlook massively, we need to improve rapidly.

Good post. I too am concerned by what he did and didn't do in that match, but also in the West Brom match. In the West Brom match he subbed VdV before Defoe for Adebayor in the 63rd minute, here it was Siggurdsson before Defoe in the 57th minute. The significance of subbing the number 10 type player rather than the striker is that in both games we have either played a 4231 with Defoe as lone striker, or a 442. Imo playing either is massively flawed, or at least is not the optimum set-up for our side.

My preference is a for a 4-2-3-1 with either VdV (previously), Sigurdsson or Dempsey in the central AM role, and obviously Adebayor as striker. I don't really understand why AVB has failed to try this for a single minute? It isn't as if defoe hasn't a history of being useless as the lone striker either, for a man who prides himself on his research, AVB should know how ill-suited he is to this role, so why does he play him there? For me it shows a worrying character flaw, one which many coaches seem to suffer from, which is to believe they can get something out of/can see something in a player when no one before has. It's fussy, and arrogant. Just play the best players in the best positions, and stop trying to be clever.

I'm also concerned that for two weeks running he's subbed Sandro and left Livermore on the pitch. I really, really don't get this. It's not only that Sandro is a vastly superior player, it's the whole dynamic of a side trying to play 4231, which AVB knows is soon to become 442, with Livermore at the base of your midfield. Fair enough, if Livermore offered you something dramatically better when you're on the ball, but he doesn't. Not even close. You sacrifice Sandro's off-the ball ferocity, for Livermore's on the ball insipidness. It also meant that Dembele is shackled with more defensive duties, and the opposition are more comfortable and enjoy more time on the ball. You can't press up the pitch so effectively either, which I thought was AVB's MO. I don't understand what AVB is trying to achieve...

Now I'm worried about what he's said concerning Friedel, because it's as if a string of fine saves in one game are enough to over-come the underlying deficiencies in his game. Any keeper is capable of having a good game here or there, but over all who will have more good games, Friedel or Lloris? And who brings more to the team as a whole?

The final thing is why make these sorts of announcements at all? You don't have to tell us that Friedel is your number one, because now you're a hostage to fortune. If it serves no benefit - and it doesn't - then say nothing, and simply do.

All of which seems to be evidence of muddied, over-complicated thinking.

 

[Max_Junglie]

Didn't see the match, but sounds like a pretty typical bad day at the Spurs office to me. I've seen Spurs sides fail to turn up and look like strangers at WHL against relegation 'favourites' often enough over the last few years to know that this isn't a new problem.

I do worry that we've sold all our footballing intelligence this window though.