Playing 'the right way' has made football fans spoilt and entitled.

[Typical Spurs]

In short, in my opinion, modern football, modern football media and the likes of worldwide arse kissing of Pep Guardiola, has caused lots of fans including plenty on here of sounding like spoilt, entitled fans.

Football is about winning games. End of. I know we as spurs fans feel an attachment to 'the game is about glory' and not boring the opposition. But I've not time for a lovely performance if we don't win.

Take yesterday, I thought first half we were decent, second half poor. We could've played an open flowing game and still not won. Its an away draw at tough place. On the back of not conceding a goal against City, Chelsea and Arsenal and gaining 7 points from them games. And folk are still moaning.

It really feels like so many fans today literally expect us to win every game. Anything less is not good enough. Drawing away at Palace isn't champions form...blah blah blah. Its nonsense.

Playing the way we play - deep solid block and extremely effective counter has seen us hit a very good run of form in a period many expected us to falter. We are top of the league. Yet some still moan. 'Absolute garbage ', 'fucking boring Jose', 'absolutely clueless', 'he'll ruin this team'....all from some of our fans, when we are top of the league and have won the square root of fuck all for years.

People have been brainwashed that 70% possession and playing out from the back is the flagship way of a proper team. Its complete bullshit. We did it under poch and have zero to show for it. We're now playing a far more pragmatic way which has seen us stay top of the league for the second week but its still not enough for some.

Some on here even say 'if we didn't have Kane and Son we'd be fucked', 'they're saving Jose'. If city hadn't had De Bruyne and Aguero (and Kompany before that) they'd be the same. If Liverpool hadn't got Van Dijk and Allison they'd be the same, irrelevant of how potent their front line is. Thats football.

I think the players have bought in to the mentality Jose requires. Its called a winning mentality. Some of our fans and even media don't get it. I swear some of our fans would rather we played an attacking flowing game and not win games, than kill a team on the counter and be happy to defend (like against Arsenal last week).

If we were mid table then some comments would be completely valid. But we're top and have looked incredibly comfortable in the recent games against big teams. We've won nothing years and years. Let's embrace being top and picking up points however they come. There's a long way to go but I've seen nothing in games against our challengers that has me scared.

 

[dudu]

In short, in my opinion, modern football, modern football media and the likes of worldwide arse kissing of Pep Guardiola, has caused lots of fans including plenty on here of sounding like spoilt, entitled fans.

Football is about winning games. End of. I know we as spurs fans feel an attachment to 'the game is about glory' and not boring the opposition. But I've not time for a lovely performance if we don't win.

Take yesterday, I thought first half we were decent, second half poor. We could've played an open flowing game and still not won. Its an away draw at tough place. On the back of not conceding a goal against City, Chelsea and Arsenal and gaining 7 points from them games. And folk are still moaning.

It really feels like so many fans today literally expect us to win every game. Anything less is not good enough. Drawing away at Palace isn't champions form...blah blah blah. Its nonsense.

Playing the way we play - deep solid block and extremely effective counter has seen us hit a very good run of form in a period many expected us to falter. We are top of the league. Yet some still moan. 'Absolute garbage ', 'fucking boring Jose', 'absolutely clueless', 'he'll ruin this team'....all from some of our fans, when we are top of the league and have won the square root of fuck all for years.

People have been brainwashed that 70% possession and playing out from the back is the flagship way of a proper team. Its complete bullshit. We did it under poch and have zero to show for it. We're now playing a far more pragmatic way which has seen us stay top of the league for the second week but its still not enough for some.

Some on here even say 'if we didn't have Kane and Son we'd be fucked', 'they're saving Jose'. If city hadn't had De Bruyne and Aguero (and Kompany before that) they'd be the same. If Liverpool hadn't got Van Dijk and Allison they'd be the same, irrelevant of how potent their front line is. Thats football.

I think the players have bought in to the mentality Jose requires. Its called a winning mentality. Some of our fans and even media don't get it. I swear some of our fans would rather we played an attacking flowing game and not win games, than kill a team on the counter and be happy to defend (like against Arsenal last week).

If we were mid table then some comments would be completely valid. But we're top and have looked incredibly comfortable in the recent games against big teams. We've won nothing years and years. Let's embrace being top and picking up points however they come. There's a long way to go but I've seen nothing in games against our challengers that has me scared.

It's an interesting point and I was having a similar discussion with someone yesterday.

A manager that wins games is doing their job right. No manager is hired to just play pretty free-flowing football.

People can enjoy football however they want, it's their right but very, very few teams in history have played beautiful football and won every game doing so. Having an expectation where that is going to happen says to me that people are placing a higher value on what's in their heads than reality.

 

[Gassin's finest]

uh... sure, why not?

 

[JimmyG2]

'Football is about winning games. End of.'

I'm afraid you misquote Danny Blanchflower.
It is about 'winning' but in style and with a flourish.

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning.
It is nothing of the kind.
The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish,
about going out & beating the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom"

If we can't have both I suppose we'll settle for winning.
But it's unrealistic to expect to win every game however you play.
It's not a choice,( play well lose/ play poorly, win.
it's a false dichotomy.
No team ever won anything playing poorly over a period of time.
Counter-attacking football is not intrinsically dull.
Kane, Son, Bale eventually, N'dombele, Lo Celso, Moura, Reguilón and Bergwijn
are exciting to watch and good defending is very satisfying.
But we relaxed our grip against Palace and paid the price.
We are not making full use of our assembled talents.

Blanchflower won many honours including the Double.
so he knows whereof he speaks.

 

[TheTanguy]

There are many ways, as long as it leads to silverware imo.

 

[shelfboy68]

In short, in my opinion, modern football, modern football media and the likes of worldwide arse kissing of Pep Guardiola, has caused lots of fans including plenty on here of sounding like spoilt, entitled fans.

Football is about winning games. End of. I know we as spurs fans feel an attachment to 'the game is about glory' and not boring the opposition. But I've not time for a lovely performance if we don't win.

Take yesterday, I thought first half we were decent, second half poor. We could've played an open flowing game and still not won. Its an away draw at tough place. On the back of not conceding a goal against City, Chelsea and Arsenal and gaining 7 points from them games. And folk are still moaning.

It really feels like so many fans today literally expect us to win every game. Anything less is not good enough. Drawing away at Palace isn't champions form...blah blah blah. Its nonsense.

Playing the way we play - deep solid block and extremely effective counter has seen us hit a very good run of form in a period many expected us to falter. We are top of the league. Yet some still moan. 'Absolute garbage ', 'fucking boring Jose', 'absolutely clueless', 'he'll ruin this team'....all from some of our fans, when we are top of the league and have won the square root of fuck all for years.

People have been brainwashed that 70% possession and playing out from the back is the flagship way of a proper team. Its complete bullshit. We did it under poch and have zero to show for it. We're now playing a far more pragmatic way which has seen us stay top of the league for the second week but its still not enough for some.

Some on here even say 'if we didn't have Kane and Son we'd be fucked', 'they're saving Jose'. If city hadn't had De Bruyne and Aguero (and Kompany before that) they'd be the same. If Liverpool hadn't got Van Dijk and Allison they'd be the same, irrelevant of how potent their front line is. Thats football.

I think the players have bought in to the mentality Jose requires. Its called a winning mentality. Some of our fans and even media don't get it. I swear some of our fans would rather we played an attacking flowing game and not win games, than kill a team on the counter and be happy to defend (like against Arsenal last week).

If we were mid table then some comments would be completely valid. But we're top and have looked incredibly comfortable in the recent games against big teams. We've won nothing years and years. Let's embrace being top and picking up points however they come. There's a long way to go but I've seen nothing in games against our challengers that has me scared.

I agree and from memory the palace keeper was MOTM so unfortunately that happens, but top of the league going into a six pointer on Wednesday is fantastic.
I'm sure arsenal fans would rather have what we have instead of a relegation six pointer on their hands.

 

[Thewobbler]

As long as we win the PL I don't care what brand of football we play.

 

[Trix]

'Football is about winning games. End of.'

I'm afraid you misquote Danny Blanchflower.
It is about 'winning' but in style and with a flourish.

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning.
It is nothing of the kind.
The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish,
about going out & beating the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom"

If we can't have both I suppose we'll settle for winning.
But it's unrealistic to expect to win every game however you play.
It's not a choice,( play well lose/ play poorly, win.
it's a false dichotomy.
No team ever won anything playing poorly over a period of time.
Countering football is not intrinsically dull.
Kane, Son, Bale eventually, N'dombele, Lo Celso, Moura, Reguilón and Bergwijn
are exciting to watch and good defending is very satisfying.
But we relaxed our grip against Palace and paid the price.
We are not making full use of our assembled talents.

Blanchflower won many honours including the Double.
so he knows whereof he speaks.

Another one trotting out 60 year old quotes like it's even remotely relevant to us today. It isn't.

The sheer amount of money in the game has seen to that.

 

[JimmyG2]

Another one trotting out 60 year old quotes like it's even remotely relevant to us today. It isn't.

The sheer amount of money in the game has seen to that.

I don't follow your train of thought.
Winning in style is not an out of date concept.
It's positively Post Modern.
Money doesn't change the spirit of the gameor unravel our history.
The game has undoubtedly changed in some respects
but in essence it remains the 'beautiful game'
and gives the same satisfaction and rewards to the fans
that it always has.
Of course it's still relevant and where it is not it's a pity.

I'm thrilled to be top of the league and we would have been
even further ahead with a little more concentration and variation in tactics.
But I wouldn't come to any conclusions with less than a third of the season gone
and Liverpool away on Wednesday.
One goalkeeping error or a silly foul in a dangerous position,
or both as on Sunday, can undo the most deep laid plans.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Some on here even say 'if we didn't have Kane and Son we'd be fucked'

we would be.

let's just hope they stay on form and injury free.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

In short, in my opinion,

A-ha

 

[neogenisis]

Thing is, and it is very simple. We have Jose, he is our manager and he has decided that this is the way Tottenham will win the league. We can talk about bullshit all day long, quote this quote that. Jose has won a fuck load of trophies, if he melted that shit down he would have enough metal to cover a sykyscraper. If you want to win a league this is how it is, if you dont we can go back to playing good footy but all we will ever do is finish 4th.

 

[andrewt]

I don't follow your train of thought.
Winning in style is not an out of date concept.
It's positively Post Modern.
Money doesn't change the spirit of the gameor unravel our history.
The game has undoubtedly changed in some respects
but in essence it remains the 'beautiful game'
and gives the same satisfaction and rewards to the fans
that it always has.
Of course it's still relevant and where it is not it's a pity.

I'm thrilled to be top of the league and we would have been
even further ahead with a little more concentration and variation in tactics.
But I wouldn't come to any conclusions with less than a third of the season gone
and Liverpool away on Wednesday.
One goalkeeping error or a silly foul in a dangerous position,
or both as on Sunday, can undo the most deep laid plans.

genuine question would you rather play like City and win nothing or like jose and win the lot ?

 

[Trix]

I don't follow your train of thought.
Winning in style is not an out of date concept.
It's positively Post Modern.
Money doesn't change the spirit of the gameor unravel our history.
The game has undoubtedly changed in some respects
but in essence it remains the 'beautiful game'
and gives the same satisfaction and rewards to the fans
that it always has.
Of course it's still relevant and where it is not it's a pity.

I'm thrilled to be top of the league and we would have been
even further ahead with a little more concentration and variation in tactics.
But I wouldn't come to any conclusions with less than a third of the season gone
and Liverpool away on Wednesday.
One goalkeeping error or a silly foul in a dangerous position,
or both as on Sunday, can undo the most deep laid plans.

The teams that win stuff "in style" do so by outspending the rest of the pack. I'll start to agree these quotes from the 60's apply to us when a team goes on to win something playing wonderfully attractive football without outspending the rest of the pack to do so.

 

[C0YS]

Your view is fine. But wanting 'to play the right way' is not entitled, it's just a different view of football. The way that certain section of fans has been demonised for not warming to Jose's brand of football is really over the top. I personally support Jose and I'm happy to play defensively.

I also think Jose made a mistake against Palace, because I think it's more effective to play more openly against teams which are not direct rivals. Particularly as it only takes one win in three to equal three draws. Risk is worth it in certain games.

There is nothing entitled about not warming up to a certain playing style, or not even valuing pragmatic winning over entertainment. Not everyone watches or enjoys football in the same way.

On the complaints in match threads, honestly ignore it. It happens every time we don't win, and always has, even if we do win sometimes. It's people venting frustration, don't take it seriously. It happened under every single manager we have had in this forum. Don't take it personally, or throw a tantrum cos people aren't supporting your guy. A lot of people who write these things, don't hate Mourinho, but simply want the best for the club and have fallen into very short term emotional thinking.

On the other side. I would argue that a lot of Poch was shit logic, also is very entitled, and frankly delusional on the idea of where a club our size should be and where it was. That's my opinion, and you don't have to agree. But a lot of fans here obsession to tear into the past like that, well just why. I've heard people being called pathetic, wankers and all kind of things for not supporting Jose to the tilt, or for not supporting him at all. It's toxic and horrible. And I think both sets of fans entrenched on either side of this debate need to just focus on the now. And generally, people need to be nicer to each other and accept differing views.

 

[C0YS]

The teams that win stuff "in style" do so by outspending the rest of the pack. I'll start to agree these quotes from the 60's apply to us when a team goes on to win something playing wonderfully attractive football without outspending the rest of the pack to do so.

Erm Dortmund? Instantly comes to mind. You could argue Liverpool. What they spent net was hardly a colossal some. It's a hard one because it's true in general, defensive or not. I don't mind defensive football, I can sometimes enjoy it. But bringing up that quote is perfectly valid, and there is little evidence defensive football is more effective for smaller teams than offensive football. Both can be very effective when done right. I'm happy that right now we seem to be doing well with our set up. But have no issue's if fans prefer something else.

I am not at the winning at all costs camp btw. I watch football because I enjoy it. Right now I'm enjoying it. Because defensive football isn't de facto boring. But who knows in the future.

 

[Trix]

Erm Dortmund? Instantly comes to mind. You could argue Liverpool. What they spent net was hardly a colossal some. It's a hard one because it's true in general, defensive or not. I don't mind defensive football, I can sometimes enjoy it. But bringing up that quote is perfectly valid, and there is little evidence defensive football is more effective for smaller teams than offensive football. Both can be very effective when done right. I'm happy that right now we seem to be doing well with our set up. But have no issue's if fans prefer something else.

I am not at the winning at all costs camp btw. I watch football because I enjoy it. Right now I'm enjoying it. Because defensive football isn't de facto boring. But who knows in the future.

"Net spend" means precisely naff all as far as football is concerned. Players are only ever worth what a buying club is willing to pay and what a selling club is willing to accept. Arsenal paying the money they did for Pepe is a prime example of this.

You also have to take into account how agents engineer deals to reduce and over inflate the value of certain deals in exchange for other deals to happen.

Net spend means nothing in today's game and is nothing more than a media tool.

 

[C0YS]

"Net spend" means precisely naff all as far as football is concerned. Players are only ever worth what a buying club is willing to pay and what a selling club is willing to accept. Arsenal paying the money they did for Pepe is a prime example of this.

You also have to take into account how agents engineer deals to reduce and over inflate the value of certain deals in exchange for other deals to happen.

Net spend means nothing in today's game and is nothing more than a media tool.

Net spend means naff all? How do you calculate a rough amount of how much is actually spent, instead of just seeing how much of the team is replaced if you don't count net spend. Im very confused, willing to be educated.

The problem is overall spend is completely inaccurate because, well, it just shows player turnover not anything financial at all. In any way you count it Liverpool are not the biggest spenders. They spent a lot of money from Coutinho leaving. But that would also mean in 2013 when we sold Bale, we should have been aiming for the title. I'm not saying it's not flawed but what other metrics can we use?

 

[Trix]

Net spend means naff all? How do you calculate a rough amount of how much is actually spent, instead of just seeing how much of the team is replaced if you don't count net spend. Im very confused, willing to be educated.

The problem is overall spend is completely inaccurate because, well, it just shows player turnover not anything financial at all. In any way you count it Liverpool are not the biggest spenders. They spent a lot of money from Coutinho leaving. But that would also mean in 2013 when we sold Bale, we should have been aiming for the title. I'm not saying it's not flawed but what other metrics can we use?

He point is this. Our net spend has been very low for a while now. This isn't because we haven't spent on players it's because Levy is a genius at selling off the crap and youth products, something Pool have done well also. Doesn't mean we haven't spent a lot more on players than other teams with greater net spends though.

It's not a true reflection of how much is being spent on players and more significantly how much is being paid as wages.

 

[C0YS]

He point is this. Our net spend has been very low for a while now. This isn't because we haven't spent on players it's because Levy is a genius at selling off the crap and youth products, something Pool have done well also. Doesn't mean we haven't spent a lot more on players than other teams with greater net spends though.

It's not a true reflection of how much is being spent on players and more significantly how much is being paid as wages.

That’s true that wage spend is more important. Though I would say net spend absolutely has a place. By wages Liverpool have also overachieved. So have we mind, massively so actually. Under Poch as well.

Monaco are another club who won a league playing attacking football without massive finances, in fact their win came as they were selling off assets left right and centre.

The point is I don’t think Danny’s statement is less relevant today than it was then. In fact back then defensive clubs were much more common at the top.

Football tactical trends promote attacking play of big clubs asthe division in wealth means that more teams are pushed to defend in those games as survival is also predicated on how many games you don’t lose not win. Attacking sides in recent decades are not attacking because of style or principle but because it works better when you are facing so many teams happy to sit deep.

Mourinho makes almost a personal point of going against that trend and is one of the best managers in the world at that. We are lucky to have that, but there are concerns, though at the moment very small and he has always drawn a little too many games. Mind I’m more than happy with him.

I just do think one could win a league playing offensive football and be of our stature. I also believe that it is a close to impossible task regardless of the style we play.If we do it winning offensive or defensive football it would be an incredible achievement and rank there behind the Porto champions league and probably on Par with the inter success.