Next DoF

[dontcallme]

Im honestly not even that fussed about the accusations leveled at FP from Juve. Even if they’re true they are miles away from “bad” stuff going on with other clubs, owners and players.

The old 2 wrongs make a right approach.

 

[kmk]

Im honestly not even that fussed about the accusations leveled at FP from Juve. Even if they’re true they are miles away from “bad” stuff going on with other clubs, owners and players.

Exactly, corruption (inc bribing refs) was going on at Juventus before Paratici joined them. It's the culture of Juventus.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

The old 2 wrongs make a right approach.

“2 wrongs” has always been an empty analogy. It’s equating shoplifting to murder, just because both are “wrong”. As with anything in life, there’s perspective that needs to be kept in mind.

Paratici may have done something wrong according to the rule books, but he did so under the instruction of his previous employers. Not only that, but he’s been punished for it and once that’s done he should be allowed to carry on with his career.

We have to look at his performance in isolation to his tenure with us, and it’s been nothing short of spectacular so far.

 

[dontcallme]

“2 wrongs” has always been an empty analogy. It’s equating shoplifting to murder, just because both are “wrong”. As with anything in life, there’s perspective that needs to be kept in mind.

Paratici may have done something wrong according to the rule books, but he did so under the instruction of his previous employers. Not only that, but he’s been punished for it and once that’s done he should be allowed to carry on with his career.

We have to look at his performance in isolation to his tenure with us, and it’s been nothing short of spectacular so far.

Sure. My point is we should be judging the situation on the merits of what happened. Not bringing other irrelevant cases into it.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Sure. My point is we should be judging the situation on the merits of what happened. Not bringing other irrelevant cases into it.

Fair enough, OP did state the equivalency first so I understand you point, it’s a false equivalency anyway as each wrong should be looked at in isolation.

Not trying to justify what he did wrong either, I just don’t think it’s relevant to what he’s done for our club.

 

[HildoSpur]

Few points about Paratici.

Gollini at the time was spoken about as being seen as lloris' successor and whilst financially it was no great loss he was utterly atrocious. Awful player.

Gil so far has been such a waste of money that last season he played for the club we gave 20 odd million to, aswell as Eric Lamela who we also gave them. He might come good, might but so far he looks miles off and I suspect had he been fit he would have been another one on loan.

Spence another disaster. Conte didn't want him, neither does Ange and he is now on his second loan.

Richarlison was totally non effective last season and despite starting as first choice hasn't looked any better this. That's sixty million quid. Although I suspect he wasn't a Paratici pick, I'll expand on that in a sec.

Lenglet another waste of space, as was Danjuma.

If you take away the Juve deals of which I include Romero his major success has been Udogie who looks an absolute steal. And that again brings me back to the Richarlison. Both of them came from the Pozzo group which is also where our chief scout comes from so he has clearly played a huge role on both with his inside track.

He has a mixed record at best and that's with the ability to take advantage of the chaos at Juventus, plus he is banned from football.

The signings of Bentancur, Sarr, Udogie and Kulusevski (yes I know he is out of form) for a combined £72 million is a phenomenal bit of business from Paratici. Arguably the best value and quality of signings we have had in years. 'Mixed record at best' is total and utter nonsense mate. How much would those players be worth now if we chose to sell them? Sarr alone must be worth at least £40 million already, Udogie probably more, Bentancur is one of the best midfielders in Europe imo as well.

 

[muppetman]

 

[Albertbarich]

The signings of Bentancur, Sarr, Udogie and Kulusevski (yes I know he is out of form) for a combined £72 million is a phenomenal bit of business from Paratici. Arguably the best value and quality of signings we have had in years. 'Mixed record at best' is total and utter nonsense mate. How much would those players be worth now if we chose to sell them? Sarr alone must be worth at least £40 million already, Udogie probably more, Bentancur is one of the best midfielders in Europe imo as well.

I've gone over and over it in previous posts. Already given him credit for the juve signings and sarr and udogie so not sure why I need to be told my opinion is nonsense when your own post misses out the bad signings.

Its going round in circles now, I know a few of you feel strongly about it but I don't agree sorry. Hopefully you all back the new man this much.

 

[HildoSpur]

I've gone over and over it in previous posts. Already given him credit for the juve signings and sarr and udogie so not sure why I need to be told my opinion is nonsense when your own post misses out the bad signings.

Its going round in circles now, I know a few of you feel strongly about it but I don't agree sorry. Hopefully you all back the new man this much.

The hits are so very good that they more than cancel out any signings that havent worked out though.

 

[Albertbarich]

The hits are so very good that they more than cancel out any signings that havent worked out though.

I literally said a few posts up that the juve signings alone make his appointment worthwhile!

 

[newbie]

Have I upset the fabio paratici fanclub here ?

The votes..He's a crook!

Look at the players he signed when we have paid for them!

Tbh I believe DJed was a levy signing
I would argue
CR
Bis
Sarr
Udogie
Maddison
Bents
Kulu
Our goalie
Forester
Porro
Vdv
All look good biz

 

[Johno1470]

Regarding placing responsibility on FP for the success or failures on bringing in certain players, specifically Bryan Gil. According to Transfrmarket, Gil has played a grand total of 233 minutes of PL football since he arrived.

Udogie has already managed 332 minutes in just four games.

The jury is still out on Gil. He has hardly been given a proper chance to show what he can do and when he has, it’s usually been in cup games where we have made a huge amount of changes. An already tough environment for a young player to try impose himself.

If any manager can get the best out of Gil, it’ll be Ange and the style of football that he implements.

Back to the main topic, I can’t see FP being reinstated. I’d imagine he’ll remain in a consultancy role with a new DoF coming in to work alongside Ange and Munn.

 

[ClonedFromSandrosBeard]

Romero
Sarr
Bentancur
Kulusevski
Bissouma
Udogie
Porro
Vicario
Van de Ven
Maddison

In two and a half years, almost a full starting XI of very good players. If that’s underwhelming what on earth are you expecting

Fair points I suppose. Didn't think we were crediting this windows business with Paratici but tbh haven't been keeping up to date with what he's doing at the club so.maybe he's more involved than I thought still. That list of players are mostly good I still have some question marks after a few but yes, good players.

I think what I was trying to get at was that we have had 2+ years of the guy not really making establishing a clear vision of where the club is going and now things look rosey because we have got a manager (by all accounts our 3rd or 4th choice at the time) who is getting us playing good football (for 4 matches...) I just don't think Paratici gets a free ride on the back of that.
It all speaks to rot from the top down to be clear. I'm not saying Paratici is necessarily bad at what he does, except for the whole doing it in a way that is legal thing.

 

[HarryKane]

I think we all agreed a mixed bag, but the argument is over whether a mixed bag is good enough or we should be aiming a bit higher. It is open to debate as its a tough job.

Compare to what it was like before Paratici and with him. He clearly has significant connections to bring in players - for example how likely is it the club get Udogie, Sarr, Véliz or Vušković without him, who are highly rated young talents with many wanting them? How likely is it the club get Kulu and Bentancur, who were the driving force for getting CL football that season which is worth about £50m? Do the club get Romero who was arguably the best defender in Italy and who Messi has called the best defender in the world the other day? The club have also been terrible at moving players out and generally building a squad in any sort of reasonable timeframe, whereas with Paratici it's slightly improved - still not great, but better than before. Then there's more focus on getting talented youngsters for the academy, clearly more significant intentions of suring up the academy to bring through talents which are basically a rounding error in the budget. Not to the same degree as Chelsea and Man City obviously, but it seems better than before and at least like people are taking it seriously and want to be competitive instead of an also ran.

Not all transfers will work out, but he at least has a good overall policy:

1) Buy talented young players before they're stars and agree loan them out if you have to if it means you get them (Sarr, Udogie, Gil, Véliz, apparently Vušković)
2) Talented but underappreciated/underperforming players that can do well in the right system (Kulu, Bentancur)
3) More establised players that potentially cost a lot but hopefully they're worth it, potentially loaned with a deferred fee (Romero, Bissouma, Richarlison, Porro)
4) Older players, possibly on a free (Perisic, Forster)
5) If needs must, loan in players to cover spots in a pinch (Lenglet, Danjuma, Gollini)
6) Did someone say LOAN?

Paratici is far from perfect and to be actually convicted of financial malpractice/false accounting and banned from the sport for 2.5 years is obviously bad. But I think having Levy there with an air of "fuck us like that and I'll cut your balls off" will mean it won't happen. As long as everything is fine and legal while he's here then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that people can change. Off the top of my head he's been the best transfer person the club's had the last 20 years or so and the alternative of not having him is going to be worse. If things don't go well, there are multiple windows where things aren't being done to the level that's needed, the squad's not being improved and upgraded where necessary, players aren't being moved on etc then fair enough but as of right now he's the best option and one of the few appointments I'm mostly positive about. It just seems very Tottenham that an actually good DoF appointment gets banned for 2.5 years after being in the job about 18 months

When people want change from him, who is it you're changing to and in comparison to transfer policy overall from the last 15 or so years, how does he compare in your books? Because while there are some signings now and then, most windows will have a <50% hit rate. The only one I can remember is 15/16 which had Son, Alderweireld and Trippier with a high % of hits

 

[Locotoro]

I think Conte rated him, as he said he was "born to play football." That's pretty damn high praise. I just don't think he thought he was physically ready to play Prem football. But, if you have a player with the technical ability of Gil and who is also physically devleoped, clubs like Spurs aren't able to buy them from Sevilla at 20 years old. A fast and powerful Gil gets bought by Madrid or City for crazy money. As it happens, he's a skinny wimp, who can't impose himself on games, so we take a punt on him, hoping he'll be able to develop the physical side of his game. If he can, we've got a potential world beater. If it doesn't, as so far looks most likely to be the case, we lose money, but given his age and the fact he's done ok in Spain, we should get some back for him.

I seriously doubt our recrutiment team were looking at Gil and thinking "we've got a sure fire gem here." We'd have been very aware that there was a decent chance he wouldn't make it to the elite level of European football, but the simple fact is, it's not easy to compete with the big spending clubs for the best young talent, so we have to try our luck with youngsters who have more question marks over their potential. Sometimes you get a Bale, but even more often you end up with a Taarabt or GDS.

That's the kind of gamble we have to take. Sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don't. But I suspect every coach we've had since his arrival rates him on a technical level.

You're absolutely right and if I were advising him I'd tell him to return to Spain if he's to achieve the maximum potential.

The style of football in England is so high paced that players end up developing strong but very lean physiques more like cross country runners. In Spain the game is much slower, almost walking pace, with more explosive attacks, that develops players that are more muscular in general. You only need to see the physical transformation of players moving from England to Spain to see the effect of the change in style on their body.

Gil has all the technical ability but seems not only small but weak as well and would need to develop some strength that he doesn't have naturally. You can compare him to a similar sized player in Modric who did have the natural strength to compete. The constant speed of the game in England is unlikely to enable him to put on enough muscle to be effective.

 

[mil1lion]

Funny thing is I feel the signings as a whole made by Paratici suit Ange more than Conte. We're still to really see the full potential of some of his signings but we're already seeing signs of better coaching for younger players. Signing players is one thing but having the right manager to coach them and develop them is another. To sign players for Conte you need to get them in their prime years so he can just manage them without changing their game too much. The signings we made were largely raw prospects though so it always made the Conte appointment a bad one. Ange is a lot more suited to our approach in the transfer window. It's just a matter of keep signing young prospects with better scouting around the world. It worked for a period under Poch who also strangely enough benefit from a number of signings made under previous DOFs. Hopefully we get back to that approach again but this time keep the signings coming. Keep feeding the squad with players who fit this brand of football and if we change manager in future get one who fits this approach too. At least there's no stadium development to distract us now.

 

[rossdapep]

Funny thing is I feel the signings as a whole made by Paratici suit Ange more than Conte. We're still to really see the full potential of some of his signings but we're already seeing signs of better coaching for younger players. Signing players is one thing but having the right manager to coach them and develop them is another. To sign players for Conte you need to get them in their prime years so he can just manage them without changing their game too much. The signings we made were largely raw prospects though so it always made the Conte appointment a bad one. Ange is a lot more suited to our approach in the transfer window. It's just a matter of keep signing young prospects with better scouting around the world. It worked for a period under Poch who also strangely enough benefit from a number of signings made under previous DOFs. Hopefully we get back to that approach again but this time keep the signings coming. Keep feeding the squad with players who fit this brand of football and if we change manager in future get one who fits this approach too. At least there's no stadium development to distract us now.

It is quite odd how Paratici can identify talent that is largely exciting players who benefit from an attack minded approach yet he doesnt adapt that approach with his coach selections.

I suppose Sarri and Pirlo were a little more adventurous but its like the way he sees football is at odds with itself.

Attack minded players but we need a coach who is more pragmatic to win.

Quite odd.

Anyway, a lot of people were adamant that he should have been hung drawn and quartered back in January but you can absolutely see why the club were not so hasty in sending him away.

The value he finds is superb and considering we were wasting 60m on Ndombele, 30m Sissoko etc. Or finding total duds. Then the club were right to wait it out and not be reactive.

 

[newbie]

It is quite odd how Paratici can identify talent that is largely exciting players who benefit from an attack minded approach yet he doesnt adapt that approach with his coach selections.

I suppose Sarri and Pirlo were a little more adventurous but its like the way he sees football is at odds with itself.

Attack minded players but we need a coach who is more pragmatic to win.

Quite odd.

Anyway, a lot of people were adamant that he should have been hung drawn and quartered back in January but you can absolutely see why the club were not so hasty in sending him away.

The value he finds is superb and considering we were wasting 60m on Ndombele, 30m Sissoko etc. Or finding total duds. Then the club were right to wait it out and not be reactive.

We don’t know if he wanted Ange.

We also don’t know what the remit was before we got levy, didn’t FP want the attacking guy?

Ange also suits a DoF who wants to buy young exciting players.

 

[mil1lion]

It is quite odd how Paratici can identify talent that is largely exciting players who benefit from an attack minded approach yet he doesnt adapt that approach with his coach selections.

I suppose Sarri and Pirlo were a little more adventurous but its like the way he sees football is at odds with itself.

Attack minded players but we need a coach who is more pragmatic to win.

Quite odd.

Anyway, a lot of people were adamant that he should have been hung drawn and quartered back in January but you can absolutely see why the club were not so hasty in sending him away.

The value he finds is superb and considering we were wasting 60m on Ndombele, 30m Sissoko etc. Or finding total duds. Then the club were right to wait it out and not be reactive.

I seem to recall the suggestion from his time at Juve was that he was good at spotting talent just not good building a team. That does appear to be the case here since his signings don't all fit a specific way. However there's at least a number of player with great potential and that can allow Ange to develop them to work his way. If we can identify exactly what we need in a position then a DOF just needs to have that similar level of ability to find the player who best fits.

Maybe Paratici didn't work for managers who had a clear vision so he just went and got the best talent he could find with little cost. I don't think Conte really had a vision to follow. He was very much short term thinking. Get player x to fit this formation no matter the cost. The trouble is if they're still young and a bit raw by the time they develop Conte would be gone.

 

[Trix]

To be honest my overall point is he has a team of scouts who likely pick and others were chosen by managers, I just don't think he is all that important. He's banned anyway not sure why folks want to defend him so much.

I hope the chief scout whose name I always mess up gets promoted. Sounds like he does deserve it.

So you are saying he's poor, but you don't know what he is or isn't responsible for?

Standard SC logic right there.

Oh and the reason I keep defending him is because I can see what he's done with our academy which was pretty piss poor, at the latter age groups before he go here. It's literally chalk and cheese in the space of 3 years.