Jose Mourinho

[SUIYHA]

Have tried to calm down in the morning - but quite frankly I'm finding it extremely difficult to be positive about the direction the club is going and our prospects for the near term future.

This is not about a single game. This appears to be a fundamental difference in both philosophy and what I perceive to be basic tactical competence between myself and the management at Spurs. You can bang on about Mourinho's track record of winning trophies - fair enough - but those trophies have not come at clubs like Tottenham. At no point has Mourinho won trophies anywhere without top class playmaking ability in the side - something we have lacked since Eriksen left. And whilst I know Lo Celso was not fit yesterday, the Alli for Sissoko substitution has got to rank as one of the ultimate tactical disasterclasses we've seen from Spurs managers. You can talk all you want about formations, aggression, high lines, motivation - but the reality is football is a fairly simple game, 90% of winning a match is getting the team with the better technical players to flourish and move the ball around well. This rule is true the vast majority of the time, and whenever managers like AVB, Ramos and now Mourinho try to get "clever" and break away from it all almost always ends in horrific style. So to bring on a man that has demonstrated nothing but a comprehensive lack of ability to pass or shoot, when already playing two midfielders that will not pass the ball forwards, was quite simply tactical suicide.

For sure we needed to upgrade at RB and DM, but if we'd signed James Rodriguez for the same price as we spent on either of our signings we'd have improved significantly more either of those two will improve us. Since selling Sigurdsson, I used to worry about a lack of cover for Eriksen, now we don't even have the first team player like this. And what alarms me is that other than a few tenuous links to Coutinho and Sabitzer we don't appear to even be looking to strengthen in this area.

Winks, Sissoko, Davies, Lucas and Dier, a few years ago all considered back-up players to more technically skilled players in the starting XI, have now all been promoted without actually getting any better themselves. Why? Because they "show a good attitude"? They "work hard"? For sure I'd question whether David Ginola or Dimitar Berbatov would flourish in the modern game, but I just can't get my head around having so few players in the squad with real technical skill. At clubs like Real Madrid that was a given - it's all well and good if the value you to your squad is by getting them to be a bit more aggressive and harder working - if your midfield options are Alonso, Modric, Ozil, Kaka and Khedeira who can all pass and move the ball regardless of who you pick - but in our case we appear to be turning into an inferior footballing side not only to most of our competitors from the top 6 but also the likes of Everton, Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe a rejuvinated Ndombele has genuinely been working behind the scenes and Lo Celso is about to embark upon a big second season and this will all blow over. But it's hard to see. And whilst I don't necessarily expect Spurs to be the best team in the land, given the disparity of resources from some of our competitors, I do expect us to at least be fun to watch. So if this is how Mourinho wants to set us up then the ONLY acceptable reason is if we achieve high value objectives such as winning the title or at least other cups - if not then he will rank at the very bottom alongside Gross, Francis and AVB - behind Sherwood and Pleat - amongst the worst managers I have seen at Spurs. Given the way we played yesterday, then unless we get a favourable draw and a fluke final result like Birmingham or Wigan did then that looks extremely unlikely.

I'll leave you with one final stat. In Redknapp's final season, despite the dramatic collapse, we still averaged 18.44 attempts on goal per match. Last season we were down to just 11.68 - less than the likes of Brighton and Villa. Yesterday, just nine, in a home game against a team that came 12th last season.

 

[emiley heskey]

Coutinho is not available

Even if he was available, we would not go for him and our fans will say he was flop at barcelona so how could he play for the great spurs team and dislodge the mighty dele ali, some will say his wages is high etc etc etc ...

 

[spursfan77]

I think he needs us fans back in the stadium so that he and the players can hear what we think about them and their performances. They're getting a free ride at the moment and it isn't doing anyone any favours.

 

[QuasiModo80]

Mourinho should and will have more time.

That said, as many others have said over the past few pages, loosing an opening game in a season after a difficult pre-season is not the problem. Seemingly having no game plan at home to a mid table team, where our aim is to create 3 or 4 good chances through the game without even being solid defensively, is for me the big problem. I honestly cant see what we are trying to do. Had the plan been to be compact and strong defensively, and then once we win the ball play direct at speed on the counter, although I don't think that should be the tactic at home to a mid table team, I would have understood what we were trying to do.

I see a team with a low block, but without working like crazy in that low block (like for instance A Madrid do under Simeone), inviting the opposition to take control and often create quite a lot of chances. Seems our main plan is that we hope that luck makes sure the opposition don't score too many goals. Our attacking play is slow and without venom, and it seems that the plan is that during a game having the likes of Kane and Son on the ball enough times they will create a moment of magic hopefully nicking a goal or two.

It would be interesting to see some statistics for number of chances created by us and by the opposition for the last few months of last season (and today), and compare it to similar numbers even in the bad few last months under Poch. My expectation is that it is dramatically worse.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Totally the Wrong appointment for this club and squad of players

 

[NEVILLEB]

DL also hired Jose, who in turns has us playing like cowards.

He thinks it's the Managers who are the problem.

His ego is too big to imagine the problem is him.

All chronic problems start at the top of the pyramid.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Totally the Wrong appointment for this club and squad of players

This is why I said Levy doesn't understand football.

He just sees Mourinho's trophies and thinks he must be the man.

He doesn't understand the way Mourinho sets up his teams and has ignored the fact that Mourinho has always had world class players at his disposal and spent a lot of money, something Levy won't do.

 

[wrd]

I think the players are more responsible than the manager personally but what concerns me is I was saying the same thing last season at beginning of the season.

My biggest concern is that we're still asking the same questions we were at start of last season when we played newcastle:

What is our best central defence pairing
Does Dele warrant a starting spot and can we get him back to his best
Why are we playing with a central midfield devoid of creativity if we're playing 4 forwards who all live off moments.

 

[littlemandefoe]

Have tried to calm down in the morning - but quite frankly I'm finding it extremely difficult to be positive about the direction the club is going and our prospects for the near term future.

This is not about a single game. This appears to be a fundamental difference in both philosophy and what I perceive to be basic tactical competence between myself and the management at Spurs. You can bang on about Mourinho's track record of winning trophies - fair enough - but those trophies have not come at clubs like Tottenham. At no point has Mourinho won trophies anywhere without top class playmaking ability in the side - something we have lacked since Eriksen left. And whilst I know Lo Celso was not fit yesterday, the Alli for Sissoko substitution has got to rank as one of the ultimate tactical disasterclasses we've seen from Spurs managers. You can talk all you want about formations, aggression, high lines, motivation - but the reality is football is a fairly simple game, 90% of winning a match is getting the team with the better technical players to flourish and move the ball around well. This rule is true the vast majority of the time, and whenever managers like AVB, Ramos and now Mourinho try to get "clever" and break away from it all almost always ends in horrific style. So to bring on a man that has demonstrated nothing but a comprehensive lack of ability to pass or shoot, when already playing two midfielders that will not pass the ball forwards, was quite simply tactical suicide.

For sure we needed to upgrade at RB and DM, but if we'd signed James Rodriguez for the same price as we spent on either of our signings we'd have improved significantly more either of those two will improve us. Since selling Sigurdsson, I used to worry about a lack of cover for Eriksen, now we don't even have the first team player like this. And what alarms me is that other than a few tenuous links to Coutinho and Sabitzer we don't appear to even be looking to strengthen in this area.

Winks, Sissoko, Davies, Lucas and Dier, a few years ago all considered back-up players to more technically skilled players in the starting XI, have now all been promoted without actually getting any better themselves. Why? Because they "show a good attitude"? They "work hard"? For sure I'd question whether David Ginola or Dimitar Berbatov would flourish in the modern game, but I just can't get my head around having so few players in the squad with real technical skill. At clubs like Real Madrid that was a given - it's all well and good if the value you to your squad is by getting them to be a bit more aggressive and harder working - if your midfield options are Alonso, Modric, Ozil, Kaka and Khedeira who can all pass and move the ball regardless of who you pick - but in our case we appear to be turning into an inferior footballing side not only to most of our competitors from the top 6 but also the likes of Everton, Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe a rejuvinated Ndombele has genuinely been working behind the scenes and Lo Celso is about to embark upon a big second season and this will all blow over. But it's hard to see. And whilst I don't necessarily expect Spurs to be the best team in the land, given the disparity of resources from some of our competitors, I do expect us to at least be fun to watch. So if this is how Mourinho wants to set us up then the ONLY acceptable reason is if we achieve high value objectives such as winning the title or at least other cups - if not then he will rank at the very bottom alongside Gross, Francis and AVB - behind Sherwood and Pleat - amongst the worst managers I have seen at Spurs. Given the way we played yesterday, then unless we get a favourable draw and a fluke final result like Birmingham or Wigan did then that looks extremely unlikely.

I'll leave you with one final stat. In Redknapp's final season, despite the dramatic collapse, we still averaged 18.44 attempts on goal per match. Last season we were down to just 11.68 - less than the likes of Brighton and Villa. Yesterday, just nine, in a home game against a team that came 12th last season.

Quality post, lad. If I was in England I would take you out for a good few drinks. (Whatever happens after happens x)

 

[14/04/91]

This is why I said Levy doesn't understand football.

He just sees Mourinho's trophies and thinks he must be the man.

He doesn't understand the way Mourinho sets up his teams and has ignored the fact that Mourinho has always had world class players at his disposal and spent a lot of money, something Levy won't do.

He's also not understood that he has chosen a polar opposite of the previous coach.
You cannot go from Pochettino with his very obvious strategy around a small squad, youth & a style of pressing to Mourinho who prefers solid defences, 6'2" players and wide forwards with one eye on tracking back.

I said at the time, I kinda understood Poch had to go (without knowing nor understanding how something so good went so wrong so quickly) but what I'll never understand is the 180 degree about turn Levy/Lewis took with their next managerial gamble appointment.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Have tried to calm down in the morning - but quite frankly I'm finding it extremely difficult to be positive about the direction the club is going and our prospects for the near term future.

This is not about a single game. This appears to be a fundamental difference in both philosophy and what I perceive to be basic tactical competence between myself and the management at Spurs. You can bang on about Mourinho's track record of winning trophies - fair enough - but those trophies have not come at clubs like Tottenham. At no point has Mourinho won trophies anywhere without top class playmaking ability in the side - something we have lacked since Eriksen left. And whilst I know Lo Celso was not fit yesterday, the Alli for Sissoko substitution has got to rank as one of the ultimate tactical disasterclasses we've seen from Spurs managers. You can talk all you want about formations, aggression, high lines, motivation - but the reality is football is a fairly simple game, 90% of winning a match is getting the team with the better technical players to flourish and move the ball around well. This rule is true the vast majority of the time, and whenever managers like AVB, Ramos and now Mourinho try to get "clever" and break away from it all almost always ends in horrific style. So to bring on a man that has demonstrated nothing but a comprehensive lack of ability to pass or shoot, when already playing two midfielders that will not pass the ball forwards, was quite simply tactical suicide.

For sure we needed to upgrade at RB and DM, but if we'd signed James Rodriguez for the same price as we spent on either of our signings we'd have improved significantly more either of those two will improve us. Since selling Sigurdsson, I used to worry about a lack of cover for Eriksen, now we don't even have the first team player like this. And what alarms me is that other than a few tenuous links to Coutinho and Sabitzer we don't appear to even be looking to strengthen in this area.

Winks, Sissoko, Davies, Lucas and Dier, a few years ago all considered back-up players to more technically skilled players in the starting XI, have now all been promoted without actually getting any better themselves. Why? Because they "show a good attitude"? They "work hard"? For sure I'd question whether David Ginola or Dimitar Berbatov would flourish in the modern game, but I just can't get my head around having so few players in the squad with real technical skill. At clubs like Real Madrid that was a given - it's all well and good if the value you to your squad is by getting them to be a bit more aggressive and harder working - if your midfield options are Alonso, Modric, Ozil, Kaka and Khedeira who can all pass and move the ball regardless of who you pick - but in our case we appear to be turning into an inferior footballing side not only to most of our competitors from the top 6 but also the likes of Everton, Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe a rejuvinated Ndombele has genuinely been working behind the scenes and Lo Celso is about to embark upon a big second season and this will all blow over. But it's hard to see. And whilst I don't necessarily expect Spurs to be the best team in the land, given the disparity of resources from some of our competitors, I do expect us to at least be fun to watch. So if this is how Mourinho wants to set us up then the ONLY acceptable reason is if we achieve high value objectives such as winning the title or at least other cups - if not then he will rank at the very bottom alongside Gross, Francis and AVB - behind Sherwood and Pleat - amongst the worst managers I have seen at Spurs. Given the way we played yesterday, then unless we get a favourable draw and a fluke final result like Birmingham or Wigan did then that looks extremely unlikely.

I'll leave you with one final stat. In Redknapp's final season, despite the dramatic collapse, we still averaged 18.44 attempts on goal per match. Last season we were down to just 11.68 - less than the likes of Brighton and Villa. Yesterday, just nine, in a home game against a team that came 12th last season.

Great post

 

[southlondonyiddo]

What have you seen from mourinho in the 10 months he has been with us to suggest he will win a trophy? Genuinely curious

After yesterday’s 2nd half display nobody can answer that question in the positive. We are all preying that his CV will get us over the line in some/any competition

 

[GutBucket]

It's a difficult position for Jose to be fair, play more open and we concede 3 goals every game, but it's also his fault for wanting to extend Toby's contract, playing Dier just because he was good 3 years ago and being a fan of Davies who is too slow for most wingers and doesn't offer much on the other end of the pitch. I almost wish we would hire another interim manager who would, similar to Tactics Tim, play kids instead of couple of players. Cirkin, White, Sessegnon, maybe even Fagan Walcott instead of some players. Mourinho deserves to finish this season and we will see what happens when everyone is fully fit and understands tactics, but we also need to start buying actual good players (Doherty will be great). One positive thing is him wanting us to press again, at least.

 

[wrd]

For sure we needed to upgrade at RB and DM, but if we'd signed James Rodriguez for the same price as we spent on either of our signings we'd have improved significantly more either of those two will improve us. Since selling Sigurdsson, I used to worry about a lack of cover for Eriksen, now we don't even have the first team player like this. And what alarms me is that other than a few tenuous links to Coutinho and Sabitzer we don't appear to even be looking to strengthen in this area.

Winks, Sissoko, Davies, Lucas and Dier, a few years ago all considered back-up players to more technically skilled players in the starting XI, have now all been promoted without actually getting any better themselves. Why? Because they "show a good attitude"? They "work hard"? For sure I'd question whether David Ginola or Dimitar Berbatov would flourish in the modern game, but I just can't get my head around having so few players in the squad with real technical skill. At clubs like Real Madrid that was a given - it's all well and good if the value you to your squad is by getting them to be a bit more aggressive and harder working - if your midfield options are Alonso, Modric, Ozil, Kaka and Khedeira who can all pass and move the ball regardless of who you pick - but in our case we appear to be turning into an inferior footballing side not only to most of our competitors from the top 6 but also the likes of Everton, Leicester and Wolves.

Maybe a rejuvinated Ndombele has genuinely been working behind the scenes and Lo Celso is about to embark upon a big second season and this will all blow over. But it's hard to see. And whilst I don't necessarily expect Spurs to be the best team in the land, given the disparity of resources from some of our competitors, I do expect us to at least be fun to watch. So if this is how Mourinho wants to set us up then the ONLY acceptable reason is if we achieve high value objectives such as winning the title or at least other cups - if not then he will rank at the very bottom alongside Gross, Francis and AVB - behind Sherwood and Pleat - amongst the worst managers I have seen at Spurs. Given the way we played yesterday, then unless we get a favourable draw and a fluke final result like Birmingham or Wigan did then that looks extremely unlikely.

Quality post, I think my issue is that our recruitment is reactive rather than proactive and it makes it increasingly hard for the players who are bedding in.

The peak of our creativity came when we had Dembele and Eriksen in their pomp. They provided our ability to break down teams in tandem albeit in different ways.

Now the logical thing to do would have been to strike whilst those 2 are at their peak and sign an upcoming talent and let's for example sake use Lo Celso so we have Dembele, Eriksen and Lo Celso vying for those 2 roles. That allows him to get acclimatised to the league and we kick on.

Then once we've got to the point of Dembele body not holding up, thankfully we've already got Lo Celso bedded in who can take on more responsibility and we can then bring in for example Ndombele who can be eased during the summer and we can say goodbye to Dembele in January. So once again we've allowed our new signing to acclimatise and allowed the team to transition. Once Eriksen goes then we've gone from Dembele and Eriksen to Ndombele and Lo Celso in a seamless transition. Probably ready to add a the next midfield talent.

Instead we waited until Dembele was gone and Eriksen had mentally checked out. That's reactive rather than proactive. Look at the weight of responsibility of those two signings had from the off and it's not gone well let's be honest.

 

[NEVILLEB]

One of the things I was suprised about watching the documentary is that for all his business acumen Daniel Levy seems a bit dim.

I didn't see a sharp brain or an impressive personality.

He seems a bit insecure and clumsy in his personal interactions.

Telling Bergwijn not to let Mourinho down was stupid. Telling your staff you want a trophy and top 4 for Christmas when you've let the squad diminish looks delusional. Then being with the transfer team and starting off your desperately needed hunt for a striker by telling them how difficult it's going to be is asking for defeat and just letting everyone off the hook before you start.

Daniel I know you won't change but at least try to reflect on the repeating patterns that have led us to this point and the high turnover of Managers.

 

[Wig]

One thing the documentary has confirmed is that the players who stopped playing for Poch, haven’t started again for Jose.

Every game he’s calling for energy, high pressing and for the players to have a winning attitude, and almost every game this bunch of sadsacks and wasters proceeds to amble around the pitch doing the minimum possible.

We know Poch’s training was built around high energy and the press, and Jose’s obviously isn’t. We might expect it to be a bit more disjointed. But there’s no excuses for this attitude.

Jose looks absolutely shocked by what is fundamentally an ingrained loser attitude which seems to pervade the entire club.

It seems to me the only cure for this - and the documentary has only reinforced this for me - is complete change in the ownership of the club.

I'm not sure a change in ownership - which may have its own merits - is going to change the "ingrained loser attitude" in the playing squad. Jose is rightly shocked, but if there are certain players who can be identified as ones who stopped playing for Poch and haven't started again for Jose, then its these players that need to be replaced with ones with the requisite hunger.

When Poch first came in it took him a season to identify the senior players that needed to be moved on (Adebayor, Kaboul etc.) and replace them with the players he could rely on. I think we are in a similar phase again with Jose needing to make some brutal decisions if we are to improve.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

One of the things I was suprised about watching the documentary is that for all his business acumen Daniel Levy seems a bit dim.

I didn't see a sharp brain or an impressive personality.

He seems a bit insecure and clumsy in his personal interactions.

Telling Bergwijn not to let Mourinho down was stupid. Telling your staff you want a trophy and top 4 for Christmas when you've let the squad diminish looks delusional. Then being with the transfer team and starting off your desperately needed hunt for a striker by telling them how difficult it's going to be is asking for defeat and just letting everyone off the hook before you start.

Daniel I know you won't change but at least try to reflect on the repeating patterns that have led us to this point and the high turnover of Managers.

Yup, socially awkward people are incapable of being high achievers and successful business men, and they’re almost never highly intelligent.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

This team is crying out for Ndombele to become the player we signed. Totally lacking dynamic forward passing at pace and different ideas. Our midfield was so poor yesterday. It was like playing fifa with some buttons missing.

This is the elephant in the room

He’s had all lock down and pre season to sort himself out and be sorted out by Jose and what do we get in the season opener, a 75th min appearance which was extremely ordinary to put it kindly

We are absolutely desperate for this guy to lead us out of this gloom but there is zero sign of that happening which is extremely worrying

I hope at least that he is sold in the next two weeks and replaced with someone that turns out to be a great signing for us, in whatever position

Boy, do we need that...

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Mourinho should and will have more time.

That said, as many others have said over the past few pages, loosing an opening game in a season after a difficult pre-season is not the problem. Seemingly having no game plan at home to a mid table team, where our aim is to create 3 or 4 good chances through the game without even being solid defensively, is for me the big problem. I honestly cant see what we are trying to do. Had the plan been to be compact and strong defensively, and then once we win the ball play direct at speed on the counter, although I don't think that should be the tactic at home to a mid table team, I would have understood what we were trying to do.

I see a team with a low block, but without working like crazy in that low block (like for instance A Madrid do under Simeone), inviting the opposition to take control and often create quite a lot of chances. Seems our main plan is that we hope that luck makes sure the opposition don't score too many goals. Our attacking play is slow and without venom, and it seems that the plan is that during a game having the likes of Kane and Son on the ball enough times they will create a moment of magic hopefully nicking a goal or two.

It would be interesting to see some statistics for number of chances created by us and by the opposition for the last few months of last season (and today), and compare it to similar numbers even in the bad few last months under Poch. My expectation is that it is dramatically worse.

All very good points and my goodness this would be night and day mate.

The Simeone comparison is an interesting one, its not so much that we don't have a plan its just that the plan is neither one thing nor another, its not a complete low block with counter attacking like a Crystal Palace or Leicester (Ranieri) but its certainly not a high line lots of pressing, its a bit of a mish mash which is why its ponderous to watch as its not very effective.

If you want a team to press they need to either have a high line to make the pitch smaller or as you say press in isolated agressive organised phases like A Madrid Simeone but we seem to do bits of both to no effect.

Added to this we 100% lack creative players, think back to last season we looked toothless most matches until Eriksen would come on at half time or 60 mins and change the game and that was an unmotivated Eriksen playing at 70% and he was still running games when he came on, he changed the game against Olympiakos and Aston Villa and many others. Then end of last season Lo Celso found his feet and his creativity and tenacity made a bit of a difference but with Eriksen now gone, Lo Celso injured and Ndombele only able to play 15 mins at a time we have a gaping hole in CM.

Then you have the Dele Alli at n.o10 issue, he looked great under peak Poch as he had flying fullbacks stretching the pitch, Dembele and Wanyama destroying and Eriksen putting pin point crosses and passes onto his head when he made 3rd man runs, but now we have no solidity or creativity behind or alongside him and so we are almost relying on his to create and dominate the attacking phases of games and he absoloutely isn't that kind of player.

Then you add to this Lucas and we can start to see why Poch didn't fancy him as game after game he produces absoloutely nothing! Sorry to say it but did anyone see Willian for Arsenal against Fulham, 3 assists, quality every time he got the ball, amazing set pieces, assist from a corner and hit the post from a free kick, he's changed their whole attacking game, night and day compared to what Lucas brings for us.

So in summary Jose's tactics are a big part of the issue but so is our lack of creativity and attacking quality.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

One of the things I was suprised about watching the documentary is that for all his business acumen Daniel Levy seems a bit dim.

I didn't see a sharp brain or an impressive personality.

He seems a bit insecure and clumsy in his personal interactions.

Telling Bergwijn not to let Mourinho down was stupid. Telling your staff you want a trophy and top 4 for Christmas when you've let the squad diminish looks delusional. Then being with the transfer team and starting off your desperately needed hunt for a striker by telling them how difficult it's going to be is asking for defeat and just letting everyone off the hook before you start.

Daniel I know you won't change but at least try to reflect on the repeating patterns that have led us to this point and the high turnover of Managers.

Completley get yours points and all so spot on and i was thinking the same especially when he said that to Bergwijn I was like god that was awkward, but at the xmas party saying about top 4 and a trophy i actually quite liked him saying that personally even if as you say it was a bit delusional but rather he said that than nothing of any ambition whatsoever.

Your last point is very spot on its always a combination of the manager hire being a poor fit and the squad and recruitment team and the football decisions not matching up, Levy got so lucky with Poch and now as Poch said the house is falling down.