Jose Mourinho

[Lincoln_Alejandro]

Some people are saying that he won't be backed but that just begs the question, if he doesn't get backed then how can we have any confidence that another manager can come in and do better? People can say that they will be satisfied as long as the football is good or that someone else can come in and bring the kids through as long as the football is good but fans these days don't have the patience. They want good football but they also expect results so if anyone comes in and struggles to get results they will get moaned at.

Struggled to get results? We got outplayed by an absolute dire Norwich , Every team that has played us has dominated us through midfield , We look like a third division team . We dont look like winning another game this year.

For players and coach there has to be more passion and determination , they get paid more a year than some of us see in our life time - our current situation is appaling for such professional players.

Our patience has worn thin for a club like ours to only of won the league cup in the last 15 years.

 

[FinnYid]

We dont look like winning another game this year.

Pends on injuries. We've been under Mourinho resultwise good with Kane and Son, decent enough with Son or Kane and without a win with both players out.

 

[Betha]

I think to a level that Mourinho has got so much baggage that some on here won't give him a chance like they might with someone else.

Which is true, but not really relevant to what I wrote.

But yes, my view of him is, and was, coloured by the football he has played with other clubs, how he threats his medical staff, how much noise he creates, in what state he leaves clubs, etc.

 

[mpickard2087]

You cant just give him a free pass, a lot of what we are seeing is because of what he is attempting to shoehorn on to the team. This is what I put last night in another thread, spoilered for length:

Spoiler

But as I've said over a few posts now, focus on the players that are left... Whatever is the ideal way that Mourinho wants to play, as it stands this group just isn't suited to sitting back and soaking up pressure. To play his football/his teams have always had very good pure defenders. Defensive minded, positionally sound, usually ultra experienced, low error count, a rock solid platform made up of the back four and cm2,then add a couple of reliable sacrificial 'defensive' wide men who can track back and make your two banks of four. Then with the ball it is all about rapid transitions and interchanges to blitz the opposition. But:

Aurier - First second and 700th instinct is to bomb forward, positioning and concentration suspect at the best of times. Likes to charge out and engage the opposition.

Sanchez - Getting there, but still not quite the finished article. Probably the best pure defender we have at this point, another whose inclination is to get tight and step out and engage the opposition.

Alderweireld - Is physically declining and this is being shown up more and more with ultra tentative defending. Can still do the job on a good day, but this really isn't a given anymore.

Vertonghen - Even more on the decline and getting shown up.

Dier - Cant do the job in midfield anymore. Currently remembering how to play centre back.

Tanganga - Rookie. Another who likes to step out and engage the opposition.

Foyth - Still a rookie. Ball playing defender bought in for high possession team playing high up the pitch. Yet another who likes to charge out and get stuck into his man.

Davies - Ok but not top class defender. Can do a job though.

Sessegnon - At left back and attack minded option. A rookie who is learning the defensive aspects of the game.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball player. Weak at sitting and screening. Can press and is quite tenacious and mobile though.

Skipp - Rookie. Basically a bit more of a tenacious version of Winks.

Sissoko - Cant be trusted to sit and screen, doesn't have the nous or game intelligence or positional ability, best deployed running about all over the place / Good player for transitions when we get the ball.

Lo Celso - More advanced ball player. Tenacious and will scrap, not a sitter / With ball likes it to feet and lot of touches, can pick a pass.

Ndombele - Clearly not someone who can sit and screen the defence at this point / Likes ball to feet and lots of touches and give and go's

Gedson - Versatile, will run lots, but a rookie attack minded midfielder. Unsure what type of player he really is currently.

Lamela - Charges around giving 200%, presses and hassles well, cant be trusted to defend a flank though / Likes ball to feet, lots of touches, lots of passes etc.

Moura - Tries his heart out when the ball is in his immediate vicinity, but not a great defensive player and cant be trusted to defend a flank consistently / With ball likes it to feet, and considering his skillset isn't actually great in transitions and exploiting quick counter attacks.

Bergwijn - Not lazy, but doesn't look that diligent either in his defensive duties / With ball seems to like it to feet also, not rapid and not brilliant in transitions

Alli - Will do a job whether he is stationed but not the most tenacious presser / Likes the ball to feet, lots of touches, at his own pace, best work done picking his moments to get into the penalty area and sniffing opportunities. Not great at rapid transitions.


That is just not a squad that to me screams being able to sit back, and be able to soak up pressure to varying degrees almost every week, nor carry out rapid counter attacks. With Kane and especially Son back the attacking plans might be better but defensively there will still be massive issues. Without them it just seems totally foolhardy.

With those available at the moment and what their skills/qualities are it would seem best, unsurprisingly given most of the squad were bought for a manager trying to play this football, to get up the pitch, press high, commit players forward and try to dominate the ball and out football teams and just generally have a go. That wont solve all the issues and indeed might not work, as we saw at the weekend when losing an open game, it might even still be a crap watch, but I think there is more chance of that working and individual players shining than us trying to sit and soak and be solid and counter.

In future, with considerable overhaul and those two key injuries back, Mourinho might get a team that can play in his image and carry out this type of football. But at the moment lets be honest he is shoehorning his ideals on a bunch of players patently unsuited to do this. And I think is the big reason why we often look clueless and we're hearing fans cry we have no identity. He is within his rights to just say we're continuing to do this for the rest of the season despite this, but it will continue to fail more often than not and he has to take the responsibility for choosing to do that.

I think that is a fair analysis of the squad and what it can/cant do. Has Mourinho been dealt a tough hand due to injuries? Yes. But he is also living somewhere close to cloud cuckoo land when it comes to what he is trying to shoehorn onto the team.

If someone came into a club and tried to turn, for an extreme example, prime Pulis-era Stoke team into a tiki-taka outfit the rest of the football world would just laugh at them and think they were bonkers. We have someone who is doing the opposite - currently trying to take a squad composed for high press, dominate the ball, ball to feet, attack minded, possessing very few pure defenders and zero pure sitting midfielders and attempting to play disciplined, pragmatic, sit back and soak up pressure (to sometimes extreme degrees) football.

This is obviously how he wants us to play looking longer term, it will need, whatever is being said, a considerable overhaul of the squad to achieve it (whether that is a realistic proposition or not, I'll leave you to decide.....), and for now he is just ploughing on with it. Don't expect anything different in terms of outcome though this side of the summer.

 

[JimmyG2]

At least he’s backing Dier. That will go down well with the players. Could play into his hands quite nicely that.

As one who has previous
for GBH on an opposition coach
he didn't have much choice.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

The problem with that is that backing Mourinho properly is about as expensive as it gets and we know what Levy will make of that. Mourinho whinged about being given 'only 300m' at Man Utd so fuck knows what he'll be saying come the summer.

fair point.

 

[Metalhead]

Which is true, but not really relevant to what I wrote.

But yes, my view of him is, and was, coloured by the football he has played with other clubs, how he threats his medical staff, how much noise he creates, in what state he leaves clubs, etc.

I'm not sure if I was responding directly to your post or just using it to make a point. He's definitely not always acted in a correct manner but I feel like he's here now, he's clearly not going anywhere anytime soon. No-one loves how things are going right now but some people are more patient than others. I'm not by nature a patient person but I am with Spurs because having waited 30 years to see us become an elite team, I can wait a while longer.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

We probably had a squad of tired (mentally or physically) players
We most likely had a squad that was thin in the sense that not very many players were very capable of a top 4 level of footie
Then we suffered many injuries of various lengths to vital players
Which probably causes further strain on a small and tired squad
We might have a manager who is overtaken by fear when enough is enough

It's a shame, in its true sense, to lose to Norwich at home on penalties. But in the larger picture, only one of the possible issues above is actually directly related to the manager. All the rest is hard circumstances to be in. I think it's true that the patience many fans feel towards the club in general is really thin, but I question whether the correct address for that lack of patience is the manager who has been here 100+ days.

The best of football we've seen under Mourinho at Spurs is much, much better in my eyes than the best of football we've seen for 24 months prior to that. I think I definitely felt entertained and excited during many matches. This period we are in, it sucks, it's not fun, and once Arsenal overtakes us on the table it will get really embarrassing. But to the "I told you so" brigade that this morning is starting to come out, you are way too early. This isn't a "I told you so" moment. It is a "Man, it sucks these days, let's try to muster a grain of support for and belief in the club" moment.

 

[Metalhead]

Struggled to get results? We got outplayed by an absolute dire Norwich , Every team that has played us has dominated us through midfield , We look like a third division team . We dont look like winning another game this year.

For players and coach there has to be more passion and determination , they get paid more a year than some of us see in our life time - our current situation is appaling for such professional players.

Our patience has worn thin for a club like ours to only of won the league cup in the last 15 years.

Mate, you don't need to tell me - I'm 45 and I've been following Spurs since I was 15. I can wait a bit longer - I grew up in a time when managers were actually afforded a bit of time.

 

[Phomesy]

So you're saying Mourinho took over a team with an identity?

Obviously not.

The squad had fractured and we know from ITK that certain players and a section within the club had been agitating against Pochettino since before the end of the previous season. Hell Poch was agitating against himself.

That's why a change was made.

So now we wait for Mourinho to stamp an identity on us and get some green shoots going. It's fair enough for people to worry that there's no sign of that yet. Especially after we limped out of the FA cup like we did.

Season's gone but we knew that anyway. Hopefully we see some signs of what we'll be like next season by the end of this one. And hopefully it will be promising.

 

[Gb160]

for GBH on an opposition coach

Sorry what?

 

[jolsnogross]

I've read this thread with interest over a couple of weeks. It's been bonkers at times.

Reactions calling for Mourinho's sacking because of an individual game, or even series of games, are nonsense so soon in his tenure. And I'm no Mourinho fan. I maintain it was a mistake to hire someone whose style of play is so at odds with what we built over 5yrs.

While I don't like him or his style - it's a bad fit on multiple levels for our club - he'll rightly be given time to implement his ideas properly. So even if you loathe the man, any sensible supporter should at least hold fire until maybe Oct/Nov. What we don't need as a club is to become a self-made laughing stock that sacks two successful managers in quick succession while devolving to mediocrity of old. What new decent manager would want to step into those shoes?

While I strongly suspect he's a busted flush, neither I nor anyone else *knows* that for certain. He could turn it around, especially when there's less spotlight over the summer. We'll never know if he's ousted before next season starts.

Even a calendar year isn't a huge duration to judge, but it's far more reasonable and realistic than now or in the coming weeks.

I don't want the club to become a disorganized joke, returning to a time of bouncing among different operational models and flailing around in mid-table or worse. As much as I loved Poch and the Poch era, I don't want it to become a sort of golden era never to be seen in my lifetime again. The 90s until Martin Jol were plenty, thanks very much.

So while I'm not confident he can, hopefully Mourinho can steady the ship. He's under pressure from the off next season in my eyes. But there's little chance and little upside in him getting canned before he's been with us a year. If it's still tosh then, at least the footballing universe will know he was given a proper chance.

 

[Japhet]

Some people are saying that he won't be backed but that just begs the question, if he doesn't get backed then how can we have any confidence that another manager can come in and do better? People can say that they will be satisfied as long as the football is good or that someone else can come in and bring the kids through as long as the football is good but fans these days don't have the patience. They want good football but they also expect results so if anyone comes in and struggles to get results they will get moaned at.

The clubs that we aspire to competing with get results because they play good football generally speaking. It doesn't have to be breathtaking but there needs to be an ethos that we're going to go out and beat our opponents, not just bide our time hoping they'll make a mistake. I also think that supporters who are paying the highest prices are entitled to expect something worth watching, which our current efforts clearly aren't.

 

[wrd]

Sorry what?

He's talking about this

 

[S0S]

I've read this thread with interest over a couple of weeks. It's been bonkers at times.

Reactions calling for Mourinho's sacking because of an individual game, or even series of games, are nonsense so soon in his tenure. And I'm no Mourinho fan. I maintain it was a mistake to hire someone whose style of play is so at odds with what we built over 5yrs.

While I don't like him or his style - it's a bad fit on multiple levels for our club - he'll rightly be given time to implement his ideas properly. So even if you loathe the man, any sensible supporter should at least hold fire until maybe Oct/Nov. What we don't need as a club is to become a self-made laughing stock that sacks two successful managers in quick succession while devolving to mediocrity of old. What new decent manager would want to step into those shoes?

While I strongly suspect he's a busted flush, neither I nor anyone else *knows* that for certain. He could turn it around, especially when there's less spotlight over the summer. We'll never know if he's ousted before next season starts.

Even a calendar year isn't a huge duration to judge, but it's far more reasonable and realistic than now or in the coming weeks.

I don't want the club to become a disorganized joke, returning to a time of bouncing among different operational models and flailing around in mid-table or worse. As much as I loved Poch and the Poch era, I don't want it to become a sort of golden era never to be seen in my lifetime again. The 90s until Martin Jol were plenty, thanks very much.

So while I'm not confident he can, hopefully Mourinho can steady the ship. He's under pressure from the off next season in my eyes. But there's little chance and little upside in him getting canned before he's been with us a year. If it's still tosh then, at least the footballing universe will know he was given a proper chance.

Agree with every word you say here

 

[fedupyid]

The fact is I did not want Mourinho. He had to have an immediate impact for me to give him time he hasn't. People say about strikers but he had both Son and Kane over the Christmas period at the end of the honeymoon period and we were outplayed by Brighton, Norwich and Southampton. No excuses his boring turgid stale style of football should be no where near my club. Levy needs to do the honourable thing hand in his notice and sack Mourinho as his last action.

 

[Gb160]

He's talking about this

Ahhh right, just to be clear I presume anyone who castigated him and was outraged by it acted the same when Mousa Dembele did it?

 

[wayneg]

Long time lurker on this site and have finally signed up, as i found myself getting more frustrated with some of the posts regarding Jose.

The squad has been in decline for approx 1 year and a half now, many factors have been the root cause of this, lack of investment in squad, Poch being stubborn eith transfers, situation with Eriksen etc.

We get rid of Poch and appoint Jose - rightly or wrongly depending on which view you take - however that is another discussion.

With all the problems we have seen over the last year, what were people expecting when Jose took over? Was he going to miraculosly take this squad with one transfer window as well as new coaching staff (to the league) and start playing free flowing football, win every match and turn us into a solid top 4 team.

Anyone thinking that really needs to lower their expectations - people calling for his head after less than 6 months need to take a look at themselves.

I'm not happy with results or performances recently, however everyone can see that there is mitigating circumstances, not having the leagues best striker is a massive one as well as Son being out.

Everyone needs to get behind the team and the manager, as now is the time when they need us most. It actually could be a blessing in disguise that we are out of the fa cup and potentially the champions league, as one game a week from now to the end of the season with the shape our squad is in is the only realistic chance we have of getting top 4, it will also allow Jose time on the training pitch to implement things, which he hasnt had a chance to due to the number of fixtures and no pre season.

There are reasons to be positive, as I dont believe we are that far of a stable top 4 side, we are starting to shift dead wood, we have an opportunity in the summer to address some big holes in the squad - full backs / dm / forward, if we can do that then there is no reason why next season cant be a good one.

In short, you can not judge a manager, especially that of Jose calibre until he has a summer window and a full pre season with the squad.

 

[JimmyG2]

Sorry what?

https://soccer-training-info.com/jose_mourinho_eye_gouge/

 

[Gb160]

https://soccer-training-info.com/jose_mourinho_eye_gouge/

Ahhh right, just to be clear I presume anyone who castigated him and was outraged by it acted the same when Mousa Dembele did it?