Interesting BBC Article

[talkshowhost86]

Isn't this a bit contradictory?

Not really

 

[HotspurFC1950]

S

Two players in two seasons out of how many signings is "buying English" as a model?

The very fact that we redeveloped the academy so long ago now, and have been working hard at making it work shows that it's not some flash in the pan model that we'll just move on from in a year or two. It's 10 years old or more now, and it's paying the dividends that were hoped for.

You have a problem. You can't accept anything for what it is. You have to take a cynical view on everything, even when it's a ridiculous point of view to get to. You've become a caricature of yourself. It's a shame, because we do genuinely seem to have things to be legitimately pleased with right now, and things to be hopeful about. It's sad that you'd rather project this Levy-shaped shadow over everything rather than just enjoy it.

Some people are not happy unless they are unhappy.

 

[Mullers]

It's easier for some people to try and character assassinate a poster than to come up with decent counter arguments about the points that have been raised.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

wasting 85k was the best thing we have done in recent times. It made up sit up re evaluate and put more emphasis on developing players.

 

[Shadydan]

Think it was a bit more than £85k

 

[Mullers]

Maybe he was talking about Adebayor.

 

[nicdic]

It's easier for some people to try and character assassinate a poster than to come up with decent counter arguments about the points that have been raised.

Oh come on Mullers. If you put forward a reasonable argument you'd get reasonable engagement with it.

 

[Mullers]

Oh come on Mullers. If you put forward a reasonable argument you'd get reasonable engagement with it.

If it's not a reasonable argument then you should very easily be able to counter points which I raised but I don't think you've done that. Instead you've talked about about me putting a dampener on everything. You say that imo because there is a ring of truth to what I'm saying even if you don't fully agree with it.

 

[JimmyG2]

Lovin' it.
Still looking forward to an All Academy
Premiership winning team.
Oh and the Champions' League to follow.

Enjoying it more than for decades.

But Mullers is not wrong to suspect
that it could all go pear shaped yet.
and very quickly.

Lay back and enjoy in the mean-time

 

[Wiener]

I think people should wait a while before they start crowing about stuff, lets see who makes it through and how things end up. Townsend is looking surplus to requirements, many think that Carroll doesn't have a future and it was only a few games back that some were thinking Kane is a one season wonder.
I think the bottom line is this squad has to achieve something, otherwise they are not really going to be remembered by spurs supporters.

Who knows what the future holds. However the BCC article which prompted this thread has us leading the field on a number of what I think are important measures. You could argue that these measures mean nothing but just coming up with some gripes about this and that player not being good enough is not really that relevant.

My impression is that you are glass half full kind of person and have some hard to fathom issue with how ENIC and Levy are running the club. I am not sure where you expect our club to be, but given our resources and where we were late 90s and early 00s we really have done very well. Whether you are enjoying the ride or not it's hard to argue that Levy hasn't done a very good job overall. I really enjoyed the 90s, but we were truly awful. Thank god the internet didn't exist in those days in it's current form. This site would have been thoroughly depressing.

 

[Mullers]

Who knows what the future holds. However the BCC article which prompted this thread has us leading the field on a number of what I think are important measures. You could argue that these measures mean nothing but just coming up with some gripes about this and that player not being good enough is not really that relevant.

If we don't know what the future holds then my doubts about whether we will stick to the current strategy are entirely legitimate. I didn't say the measures mean nothing but simply to hold fire on getting overexcited because we haven't achieved anything yet

My impression is that you are glass half full kind of person and have some hard to fathom issue with how ENIC and Levy are running the club. I am not sure where you expect our club to be, but given our resources and where we were late 90s and early 00s we really have done very well. Whether you are enjoying the ride or not it's hard to argue that Levy hasn't done a very good job overall. I really enjoyed the 90s, but we were truly awful. Thank god the internet didn't exist in those days in it's current form. This site would have been thoroughly depressing.

My thoughts about ENIC and Levy are not much of a secret, it's all there in the Is Levy holding us back thread as well as my expectations about what we can achieve.

I really didn't come in here to talk about Levy and ENIC but other people keep mentioning them, I only wanted to discuss the actual topic in hand.

 

[nicdic]

If we don't know what the future holds then my doubts about whether we will stick to the current strategy are entirely legitimate. I didn't say the measures mean nothing but simply to hold fire on getting overexcited because we haven't achieved anything yet

OK. So let's say that we achieve something. At what level of success do you stop and actually enjoy it, rather than worrying about what might be coming at some point over the horizon? One CL qualification? A domestic Cup? Winning the league? Winning the double? Back to back championships? etc.

The issue here isn't about achievement or not. It's about perspective. The majority of fans indulge in hope, you seem to only indulge in despair. If something good is happening, we will enjoy it and say long may it continue. If things are bad, we say, well things will get better. If things are good, you don't appear to enjoy it, you only say things will only get worse. And if things are bad, you tell us we shouldn't be surprised.

My thoughts about ENIC and Levy are not much of a secret, it's all there in the Is Levy holding us back thread as well as my expectations about what we can achieve.

I really didn't come in here to talk about Levy and ENIC but other people keep mentioning them, I only wanted to discuss the actual topic in hand.

Problem is that your view of ENIC and Levy colours every opinion on the club. Your whole perspective is shaped and formed in your opinion of ENIC and the club. You claim to be the one who approaches things with objectivity because you don't happy clap or jump on the latest fad, but you're whole perspective is shaped by ENIC and Levy. It may not be explicit in every post, but it's there clear as day in each and every single post.

People don't engage you in the debate you think you deserve because no one sees the point when you can't see beyond your hate for ENIC and Levy.

 

[Mullers]

OK. So let's say that we achieve something. At what level of success do you stop and actually enjoy it, rather than worrying about what might be coming at some point over the horizon? One CL qualification? A domestic Cup? Winning the league? Winning the double? Back to back championships? etc.

The issue here isn't about achievement or not. It's about perspective. The majority of fans indulge in hope, you seem to only indulge in despair. If something good is happening, we will enjoy it and say long may it continue. If things are bad, we say, well things will get better. If things are good, you don't appear to enjoy it, you only say things will only get worse. And if things are bad, you tell us we shouldn't be surprised.

I was very happy when we won the league cup and I thought we would push on there unfortunately it didn't work out. I'm not really one for putting my head in the sand and pretending there aren't any problems. I analyse what we are doing well and what is going not so well. It's really not bad, a good manager will always analyse the situation even when the team is winning something.

I don't indulge in despair either I've said many times we are capable of winning trophies.

Problem is that your view of ENIC and Levy colours every opinion on the club. Your whole perspective is shaped and formed in your opinion of ENIC and the club. You claim to be the one who approaches things with objectivity because you don't happy clap or jump on the latest fad, but you're whole perspective is shaped by ENIC and Levy. It may not be explicit in every post, but it's there clear as day in each and every single post.

People don't engage you in the debate you think you deserve because no one sees the point when you can't see beyond your hate for ENIC and Levy.

People do engage me in debate, including hardcore Levy supporters. I may not agree with them but at least they will debate the points I raised and make their own arguments and don't try to sum up my whole personality just because my view on ENIC and the club is different from theirs.

My perspective is really shaped by how we have performed and what we have achieved in our history.There have been many, many false dawns both pre and during ENIC's time, so I keep myself grounded.

When I say something good about the club, the ENIC/Levy stick doesn't come out of the sock draw to beat me with, as soon as I say something which is seen as negative people like yourself see this has a direct attack on ENIC/Levy even though I haven't mentioned their names or discussed them, the very fact that you mention 'hate' in association with my views about ENIC/Levy just shows the level of emotion and how people go over the top about this.

 

[nicdic]

I was very happy when we won the league cup and I thought we would push on there unfortunately it didn't work out. I'm not really one for putting my head in the sand and pretending there aren't any problems. I analyse what we are doing well and what is going not so well. It's really not bad, a good manager will always analyse the situation even when the team is winning something.

I don't indulge in despair either I've said many times we are capable of winning trophies.


People do engage me in debate, including hardcore Levy supporters. I may not agree with them but at least they will debate the points I raised and make their own arguments and don't try to sum up my whole personality just because my view on ENIC and the club is different from theirs.

My perspective is really shaped by how we have performed and what we have achieved in our history.There have been many, many false dawns both pre and during ENIC's time, so I keep myself grounded.

When I say something good about the club, the ENIC/Levy stick doesn't come out of the sock draw to beat me with, as soon as I say something which is seen as negative people like yourself see this has a direct attack on ENIC/Levy even though I haven't mentioned their names or discussed them, the very fact that you mention 'hate' in association with my views about ENIC/Levy just shows the level of emotion and how people go over the top about this.

But your whole argument in this thread rests upon Levy changing tack in the past. It's a Levy/ENIC thing. To argue that you're saying otherwise is bonkers.

I'm not putting my head in the sand saying there are no problems, or aren't things still to improve on, but things seem to look positive from where I'm standing, taking all things into consideration. I understand the call for people not to get ahead of themselves. We haven't arrived, there's a long way to go, but saying we could do it, or daring to dream we could do it isn't wrong or bad.

You're right, a good manager will always analyse and assess even when winning, but that isn't what you're doing. You're doom mongering. You're not looking for the ways to improve and the ways we can do it, you're looking for the reasons why it won't happen. You'll say it's realism, but it's not. It's pessimism. I'm all for realism, but I'm not for pessimism, the club is built on the motto of daring to do, and Bill's famous words of aiming high.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I've already said the academy itself is not a flash in the pan, over the course of time as Dogs of War has said, the players coming out of it has improved.

My concerns are:

1. That our transfer policy is not tied in with our youth set up, when we buy we should be mindful of the players we have coming through.
2. That we will deviate away from what we are doing now in the future.

I think I have legitimate reasons to be concerned about these things. It doesn't just boil down to Levy sticking with it, it's about the board, Poch, Mitchell, academy coaches being on the same page at this moment in time.

I'm not too worried about Levy sticking with it as it's been around a decade in the making and results in lower wages, reduces the need for transfer fees, creates appreciating assets, and is a secondary revenue stream.
It's a win-win from both a commercial and footballing perspective and is the only way we will be able to punch above our financial weight in the future.

As far as the future is concerned, at the moment we have a perfect storm of Mitchell, Poch and the standard of academy players which is successful but one of the big boys could come in and relieve us of one or both and we would be in trouble.
However, now the culture is in place it is a lot easier to get a potential replacement DoF/Scout/coach/manager to buy in to a successful formula and carry it on.

 

[Mullers]

But your whole argument in this thread rests upon Levy changing tack in the past. It's a Levy/ENIC thing. To argue that you're saying otherwise is bonkers.

I'm not putting my head in the sand saying there are no problems, or aren't things still to improve on, but things seem to look positive from where I'm standing, taking all things into consideration. I understand the call for people not to get ahead of themselves. We haven't arrived, there's a long way to go, but saying we could do it, or daring to dream we could do it isn't wrong or bad.

You're right, a good manager will always analyse and assess even when winning, but that isn't what you're doing. You're doom mongering. You're not looking for the ways to improve and the ways we can do it, you're looking for the reasons why it won't happen. You'll say it's realism, but it's not. It's pessimism. I'm all for realism, but I'm not for pessimism, the club is built on the motto of daring to do, and Bill's famous words of aiming high.

No it doesn't boil down to that, it's one one of my concerns. I made no mention of ENIC/Levy in my first post, I had no thought about them at all. You want to turn this into a ENIC/Levy discussion so that you can write my arguments off.
Things are positive but I also know that things can change quickly. Once we have achieved something, whatever happens in the future no one can take it away from us.

I have said many, many times about the improvements we can make and how we can improve. You haven't seen all my posts or you just see a anti ENIC/Levy alert when you scan over them. As for the doom mongering, I've said that Poch still needs more time to get the best out of the squad, we are in a better situation than I expected but I'm not going to talk about us getting top 4 yet because it's still too early. To dare is to do but I'm also not going to talk about us being title contenders at this stage either.
It's not pessimism, it's realism.

 

[Mullers]

I'm not too worried about Levy sticking with it as it's been around a decade in the making and results in lower wages, reduces the need for transfer fees, creates appreciating assets, and is a secondary revenue stream.
It's a win-win from both a commercial and footballing perspective and is the only way we will be able to punch above our financial weight in the future.

As far as the future is concerned, at the moment we have a perfect storm of Mitchell, Poch and the standard of academy players which is successful but one of the big boys could come in and relieve us of one or both and we would be in trouble.
However, now the culture is in place it is a lot easier to get a potential replacement DoF/Scout/coach/manager to buy in to a successful formula and carry it on.

That's true, Poch is doing well but he's not yet at the standard where we could expect Chelsea or another club to come in for him. Mitchell on the other hand has previous pedigree from his Southampton days and this summer buys look sound. Baldini was the one who suggested him but he's gone now.