Group B: ENG/IRAN/USA/WAL

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

Senegal will be tough but they'll bring the game to us.

That will suit us I think.

Agreed – I still think it will be England that gets the honour of a thrashing at France's hand in the QFs.

 

[HildoSpur]

3 played, 9 goals, 2 conceded, top the group. He's been managing similar outcomes in qualifiers since he took charge. All taken for granted by English press/football culture or happening despite Southgate according to many. Senegal up next and ye'll be deserved favourites. It's not a banker, but few world cup games are, especially in the knock out stages.

And then it'll most likely be France, which would be welcomed by all England fans if it was a final. But the (un)luck of the draw means its only a quarter final and defeatism has already crept in as a stick to beat the manager with ahead of time. Frankly after the round of 16, it's top teams all the way and each can beat the others on their day.

I probably wouldn't want Southgate managing Spurs, because club football is a different beast. But ya'll should be quite appreciative and complementary of him for turning the national side into a model professional outfit rather than the highs-and-lows circus it's been for decades, including truly abysmal outcomes under managers with far more experience.

The amount of England fans I see on forums trashing Southgate and saying he is a terrible manager yet he has consistently got England their best results in decades. England fans are a strange bunch.

 

[easley91]

The amount of England fans I see on forums trashing Southgate and saying he is a terrible manager yet he has consistently got England their best results in decades. Football fans are a strange bunch.

Fixed it for you.

 

[RuskyM]

I'm mostly effusive about Southgate because I'm seemingly one of the only fans who remember how bad the 2000s were, and also 2016, when England lost to Iceland and had a manager leave his dream job after 60 days because he just loved bungs. Somehow two years after that we got to a World Cup semi, which was then dismissed as "we only played easy teams", and then we got to a final for the second time in our history, which is now dismissed as "but we didn't win". Pre this tournament everyone has been saying he should go, and yet we've topped the group easily when we've seen from Belgium, Argentina and Germany that that's not a given.

Maybe it's because modern Britain is so fucking depressing but I find something genuinely wonderful about a group of nice young blokes who seem to enjoy playing together being guided by a man whose heart is clearly in the right place.

 

[RuskyM]

It's tournament football which also means picking players who are in form and 'have balls'. Southgate 's a bit of a Greenwood / Bobby Robson manager who has certain favourites, and plays too safe, often ceding the initiative. It took years for Robson to work this out and Southgate seems to be repeating the same mistakes Given our attacking options, I'd be tempted to say to the front 3, make things happen or you're off at half time. Too many players cruising. We have enough attacking players to have got through this group AND entertained. I would have preferred he used the group matches to go all out attack and work out his options even if it meant conceding goals. That defence needs testing in preparation for later stages.

We have scored more goals than anyone else.

What really gets my goat is England players today not asserting themselves, not playing one/two touch with tempo or not trying a flick or a trick until about the 80th minute.

This is just objectively not what happened yesterday.

 

[HildoSpur]

I'm mostly effusive about Southgate because I'm seemingly one of the only fans who remember how bad the 2000s were, and also 2016, when England lost to Iceland and had a manager leave his dream job after 60 days because he just loved bungs. Somehow two years after that we got to a World Cup semi, which was then dismissed as "we only played easy teams", and then we got to a final for the second time in our history, which is now dismissed as "but we didn't win". Pre this tournament everyone has been saying he should go, and yet we've topped the group easily when we've seen from Belgium, Argentina and Germany that that's not a given.

Maybe it's because modern Britain is so fucking depressing but I find something genuinely wonderful about a group of nice young blokes who seem to enjoy playing together being guided by a man whose heart is clearly in the right place.

It's the modern football fan. If you don't dominate a game for 90 mins and win by at least 3 goals in every match then it's not good enough.

 

[easley91]

Nope because Southgate can't coach well enough to improve players and show them how to play in different positions. He seems one step behind e.g. some of the changes he made today could have been

Rice and Phillips are fine but I'm not sure they are leaders. If Venables circa 1996 was in charge I think we'd have a better combination in midfield and more connection between the midfield and better connections between the midfield and the the other sections of the team. I'm not entirely convinced by Rice or Phillips distribution/passing ability. Rice moves like a centre back. I think Venables would have coached Henderson to sit with Bellingham and Foden making up the rest of the midfield.

It's tournament football which also means picking players who are in form and 'have balls'. Southgate 's a bit of a Greenwood / Bobby Robson manager who has certain favourites, and plays too safe, often ceding the initiative. It took years for Robson to work this out and Southgate seems to be repeating the same mistakes Given our attacking options, I'd be tempted to say to the front 3, make things happen or you're off at half time. Too many players cruising. We have enough attacking players to have got through this group AND entertained. I would have preferred he used the group matches to go all out attack and work out his options even if it meant conceding goals. That defence needs testing in preparation for later stages.

What really gets my goat is England players today not asserting themselves, not playing one/two touch with tempo or not trying a flick or a trick until about the 80th minute. If Southgate and his coaching group can't coach and create a solid defence (Tomori?) and teach them to defend that well against the likes of France or really express themselves (despite his limitations as as coach) then what is the whole point of England being there? I get that he needs to involve all the squad (hence his substitutions today) but I'd rather see frequent but more clever rotation e.g. Kane rested for the second game against the USA. It seems as if we are waiting (like 1990) for Southgate to stumble upon his best starting eleven as well as being prepared to try different formations not just for a certain game but also within a game. Are all these premiership players with big wages and reputations simply smaller than of their parts? I see little evolution or promising sparks despite today's result. .

Did you actually watch the game last night or v Iran? We did some nice attacking stuff throughout, and personally I was entertained. There were definitely moments of one two touch with tempo. They asserted themselves from the off and never let Wales have it. What more do you actually want? I really don't get it. Conceded only two goals in the group, one being a debatable penalty at that. And we have scored the most, or will be up there when the groups finish. Southgate can win the whole thing and it will be dismissed because you and others don't like him. He gets the job done. He played Foden last night after everyone clamoured for it, and guess what? PEOPLE STILL AREN'T HAPPY.

And this players not being coached to play different positions is ridiculous, because TRIPPIER PLAYS LB FOR ENGLAND and Saka plays different to his club position at times, Foden as well. Southgate doesn't have the luxury to spend every day throughout a season to coach his methods. he gets a week every few months at most. He didn't have any warm-up games for this either, it was straight into it. Give the man a break. He had us 4th in 2018, 2nd in 2020/21 and now we're in the last 16 in 2022.

I genuinely hate the modern football "fan".

 

[RuskyM]

It's the modern football fan. If you don't dominate a game for 90 mins and win by at least 3 goals in every match then it's not good enough.

Weird thing is we did! Twice! People still moan! I’m someone who’s complained about Conte’s football being drab but there’s many more games and much more time compared to international football (also I care about Spurs more so I’m more invested in entertainment). But I don’t know what era of England team people think was this mythical side that played great and did well was.

 

[HildoSpur]

Weird thing is we did! Twice! People still moan! I’m someone who’s complained about Conte’s football being drab but there’s many more games and much more time compared to international football (also I care about Spurs more so I’m more invested in entertainment). But I don’t know what era of England team people think was this mythical side that played great and did well was.

I think the problem is that some fans look at the team and do what has happened for years in England, they overrate their players and think that every game should be a walkover. They look arrogantly at other teams and think they are shite and should be easily beaten by the mighty England.

 

[chrissivad]

I just don't think Southgate will get the best out of these players.

He has done well, but I would have a look to see if there is anyone we could bring in to work with the next generation coming through.

If not, Southgate has done a steady job.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think England's attack is incredible....with insane strength and depth.

Of course Southgate has done well but he doesn't play to their attacking strengths enough.

Too often it's with the handbrake on against opposition who they could blow away.

In the midfield three I'd play Maddison with Rice and Bellingham.

They have more than enough protection with the former two ..and the latter feeding Kane/Foden/Rashford.

It would also take the onus off Kane supplying and maybe keep him higher up the pitch.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

So do we like Southgate again now?

And great Welsh atmosphere only singing at kick off and at the end. Terrific backing that.

Nope.

The Senegal line up will be very telling as to whether he’s clueless or plays his strongest XI based on performances in the group stage.

If Saka, Sterling and Mount come back in then he’s lost the plot.

Foden was very energetic, good movement, showing for the ball and creative. He must start ahead of Sterling or Mount.

Rashford (subject to fitness as he appeared to be hobbling before he went off) must also start ahead of Sterling or Mount. He’s very direct, fast and has 3 goals to his name. Our attack looked so much more fluent with Foden and Rashford in the team ahead of Sterling and Saka.

I would also argue Henderson should start as he brings calmness and leadership to the team, this is very important considering we shit the bed against Croatia and then Italy when it mattered.

When I think about it I would stick with the team who played against Wales as even Walker did well… he’s a lot more dynamic, physical and also a lot quicker than Trippier. These are all qualities needed against an energetic Senegal.

 

[PLTuck]

He may be a bit conservative for some but he's England's best manager since the late great Bobby Robson. The results don't lie. He's clearly very much liked and respected within the group. I thought we played some delightful stuff yesterday. The US game was awful but so were many of the 2nd group games. It's just the nature of the beast.

Lets be honest, he could win this and win the next euros and there would be some who still think we should get a 'better' manager.

 

[JSpurs1]

He may be a bit conservative for some but he's England's best manager since the late great Bobby Robson. The results don't lie. He's clearly very much liked and respected within the group. I thought we played some delightful stuff yesterday. The US game was awful but so were many of the 2nd group games. It's just the nature of the beast.

Lets be honest, he could win this and win the next euros and there would be some who still think we should get a 'better' manager.

Let’s not go overboard. He’s won lots but how many top international sides have we beaten.

englandstats.com | Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

englandstats.com | The England International Database. Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

www.englandstats.com

 

[PLTuck]

Let’s not go overboard. He’s won lots but how many top international sides have we beaten.

englandstats.com | Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

englandstats.com | The England International Database. Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

www.englandstats.com

Irrelevant. Can only beat whats in front of you.

That's like if Spurs were to win the PL some fans would come out and say "yeah but we didn't beat Liverpool or Chelsea"

 

[easley91]

Nope.

The Senegal line up will be very telling as to whether he’s clueless or plays his strongest XI based on performances in the group stage.

If Saka, Sterling and Mount come back in then he’s lost the plot.

Foden was very energetic, good movement, showing for the ball and creative. He must start ahead of Sterling or Mount.

Rashford (subject to fitness as he appeared to be hobbling before he went off) must also start ahead of Sterling or Mount. He’s very direct, fast and has 3 goals to his name. Our attack looked so much more fluent with Foden and Rashford in the team ahead of Sterling and Saka.

I would also argue Henderson should start as he brings calmness and leadership to the team, this is very important considering we shit the bed against Croatia and then Italy when it mattered.

When I think about it I would stick with the team who played against Wales as even Walker did well… he’s a lot more dynamic, physical and also a lot quicker than Trippier. These are all qualities needed against an energetic Senegal.

Then how about giving him credit for last night and wait until Sunday evening before making another judgement? This is what I am on about. People wanted the likes of Foden starting last night and he did that. But you're still not happy because of a decision he is yet to make or you're yet to see?

Baffles me, it really does. He isn't the most gifted manager or coach, but there's this agenda against him I just don't get. He has given us the best tournament results consistently in decades. The football can actually be exciting and if you watched Iran or Wales games you should be able to acknowledge it.

Southgate crucially got this group to be united. It was always divided before he came along. He has done more for us than people want to give him credit for.

 

[easley91]

Let’s not go overboard. He’s won lots but how many top international sides have we beaten.

englandstats.com | Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

englandstats.com | The England International Database. Gareth Southgate - Manager Profile

www.englandstats.com

This is the most ridiculous argument, because you can only play who you're scheduled to play? Not our fault if other big teams faulter or we win the group that should give us an "easier" path. He can't do much more than he already is. The only thing left is winning a tournament. That's it.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

If we get through it is far from certain that we play France. Results tonight may find Argentina as second in their group and due to play France next. As it stands I would rather play Argentina than France. I see Romero doing something illegal to Mbappe.

 

[JSpurs1]

Irrelevant. Can only beat whats in front of you.

That's like if Spurs were to win the PL some fans would come out and say "yeah but we didn't beat Liverpool or Chelsea"

OK - but we haven’t won anything because anytime we face someone half decent we lose. So I think it is relevant.

A league format is different to a cup format. You don’t need to beat good sides to win a league - you probably do to win a cup.

 

[JSpurs1]

This is the most ridiculous argument, because you can only play who you're scheduled to play? Not our fault if other big teams faulter or we win the group that should give us an "easier" path. He can't do much more than he already is. The only thing left is winning a tournament. That's it.

See my other response. He is winning lots and I like him.

But we’ve had nice runs in the last 2 tournaments and been beaten by top tier sides. His record against them is not great.