Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The fact is we have regressed this season and not kicked on from the excellent finish last season. We have been extremely inconsistent and i am firmly of the opinion that all of this is a result of the limbo we find ourselves in with the managers situation, Paratici, Kane etc etc. It's affected our form, our players and our recruitment.

You don't think the injuries, and fixture congestion with the WC in the middle of the season have created a level of inconsistency?

Just looking at the two players who helped create the "excellent finish" last season - Kulusevski and Bentancur have played a combined 2860 minutes out of 4860 possible - that is missing over 40% of the season.

Romero has played a bit over 60%
Richarlison, a key summer signing, under 30%
Doherty never regained his fitness and form following injury late last year.
Son's form fell off a cliff.

None of this had anything to do with Conte's contract situation, and whether or not he would extend beyond this summer.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

With Man city, Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea I very much doubt anyone could consistently do that.

The way things are going it’s going to be an achievement to finish in the top half.
even more so to qualify for the Conference Plate.

 

[Yantino]

You don't think the injuries, and fixture congestion with the WC in the middle of the season have created a level of inconsistency?

Just looking at the two players who helped create the "excellent finish" last season - Kulusevski and Bentancur have played a combined 2860 minutes out of 4860 possible - that is missing over 40% of the season.

Romero has played a bit over 60%
Richarlison, a key summer signing, under 30%
Doherty never regained his fitness and form following injury late last year.
Son's form fell off a cliff.

None of this had anything todo with Conte's contract situation, and whether or not he would extend beyond this summer.

To answer your question directly, i think it's probably a bit of both i suppose.

 

[Ribble]

Did anyone else take a look at the Athleic's pass map article that came out a couple of days ago? I feel like it highlighted well what's different in comparison with last season and where things are really lacking.

Essentially the pass maps for this season shows the entire team is about 1/6 of the pitch deeper and passes in central positions in the final third have reduced significantly. That second bit I think has been obvious to everyone but I found the fact we're a lot deeper interesting. Not compressing the pitch as much, leading to the distance between where our attacking players receive the ball and the goal being that little bit more, which perhaps leads to the drying up of those central passes.

Also something which stood out to me, given the theorising about Perisic crowding Son - his average position on the pass map is deeper in comparison to the team than our LB's (mostly Sessegnon) last season.

Now my ultimate question here is - do folks think this is this intentional, the result of players who are a bit more fatigued after a lot of football with little rest, or perhaps being more cagey due to numerous mistakes at the back?

 

[parj]

You don't think the injuries, and fixture congestion with the WC in the middle of the season have created a level of inconsistency?

Just looking at the two players who helped create the "excellent finish" last season - Kulusevski and Bentancur have played a combined 2860 minutes out of 4860 possible - that is missing over 40% of the season.

Romero has played a bit over 60%
Richarlison, a key summer signing, under 30%
Doherty never regained his fitness and form following injury late last year.
Son's form fell off a cliff.

None of this had anything todo with Conte's contract situation, and whether or not he would extend beyond this summer.

I kind of agree but all teams dealt with the fixture congestion. Most our rivals have some form of European football and don't forget we whined that Thursday night football impacts results negatively..... The current leaders play on Thursday nights

 

[chas vs dave]

They've also spent more money than us despite not having CL. Kroenke has put his money where his mouth is and just left Edu and Arteta to get on with it. that's the difference mate.

When you say his money, wasn't that in the form of a loan though?

 

[Styopa]

We can talk about the World Cup, but the most significant difference between this and last season is we started this season with Conte. Last season Nuno was in charge until November. Nuno was in charge of the pre-season. Nuno managed us for the first ten matches. Conte only joined us roughly three months into the season.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

Did anyone else take a look at the Athleic's pass map article that came out a couple of days ago? I feel like it highlighted well what's different in comparison with last season and where things are really lacking.

Essentially the pass maps for this season shows the entire team is about 1/6 of the pitch deeper and passes in central positions in the final third have reduced significantly. That second bit I think has been obvious to everyone but I found the fact we're a lot deeper interesting. Not compressing the pitch as much, leading to the distance between where our attacking players receive the ball and the goal being that little bit more, which perhaps leads to the drying up of those central passes.

Also something which stood out to me, given the theorising about Perisic crowding Son - his average position on the pass map is deeper in comparison to the team than our LB's (mostly Sessegnon) last season.

Now my ultimate question here is - do folks think this is this intentional, the result of players who are a bit more fatigued after a lot of football with little rest, or perhaps being more cagey due to numerous mistakes at the back?

Must be intentional- I think Stellini said so- conserving energy for the WC but maybe also because Kulusevski was out ?

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I kind of agree but all teams dealt with the fixture congestion. Most our rivals have some form of European football and don't forget we whined that Thursday night football impacts results negatively..... The current leaders play on Thursday nights

Arsenal were able to rotate better because of Europa League.

Arsenal have 8 players who have played more than 2000 minutes in the league this year.

Spurs have 3, and two of them are Dier and Hojbjerg...

 

[Timberwolf]

Did anyone else take a look at the Athleic's pass map article that came out a couple of days ago? I feel like it highlighted well what's different in comparison with last season and where things are really lacking.

Essentially the pass maps for this season shows the entire team is about 1/6 of the pitch deeper and passes in central positions in the final third have reduced significantly. That second bit I think has been obvious to everyone but I found the fact we're a lot deeper interesting. Not compressing the pitch as much, leading to the distance between where our attacking players receive the ball and the goal being that little bit more, which perhaps leads to the drying up of those central passes.

Also something which stood out to me, given the theorising about Perisic crowding Son - his average position on the pass map is deeper in comparison to the team than our LB's (mostly Sessegnon) last season.

Now my ultimate question here is - do folks think this is this intentional, the result of players who are a bit more fatigued after a lot of football with little rest, or perhaps being more cagey due to numerous mistakes at the back?

I do think we made a conscious tactical decision for Son to drop deeper and Kane to stay higher. At the end of last season Kane was dropping a bit deeper and hardly scoring at all, while Son was taking on most of the scoring duties. I think this worked great, pesonally, but for whatever reason (maybe to get Kane's goal-tally up?) Son became the 'deeper' one this season which he's absolutely terrible at. Think this is a big reason why Kane's scored so many as he's lurking in the box more, while Son's dropped off a cliff.

 

[Stamford]

They've also spent more money than us despite not having CL. Kroenke has put his money where his mouth is and just left Edu and Arteta to get on with it. that's the difference mate.

Yep and that's my frustration. We are far too conservative.

 

[whitesocks]

Did anyone else take a look at the Athleic's pass map article that came out a couple of days ago? I feel like it highlighted well what's different in comparison with last season and where things are really lacking.

Essentially the pass maps for this season shows the entire team is about 1/6 of the pitch deeper and passes in central positions in the final third have reduced significantly. That second bit I think has been obvious to everyone but I found the fact we're a lot deeper interesting. Not compressing the pitch as much, leading to the distance between where our attacking players receive the ball and the goal being that little bit more, which perhaps leads to the drying up of those central passes.

Also something which stood out to me, given the theorising about Perisic crowding Son - his average position on the pass map is deeper in comparison to the team than our LB's (mostly Sessegnon) last season.

Now my ultimate question here is - do folks think this is this intentional, the result of players who are a bit more fatigued after a lot of football with little rest, or perhaps being more cagey due to numerous mistakes at the back?

If it is the one I saw, our pass heat map was hottest along our own goal-line as we seemingly struggle to play through the opponent's press to get out.
I'd say that was very much the pattern especially with Lloris. Forester is quicker to move the ball as he is very good with his feet. We now get moving before their press starts targeting players.

Having said that there was an interesting article (guardian) about Brighton/De Zerbi who has brought a 'new' trick to the table with great success, it says. They deliberately repeatedly pass the ball deep amongst themselves, inviting the press. Invite the opponent forward, then spring forward with some sharp passing and away in what is I think called an artificial transition. It is as if the opponent has lost the ball.

If we were being generous, we could say that all the panic along our back line, with no-one, esp lloris, seemingly comfortable on the ball is the same tactic. It is straight out of the sun tzu playbook. And we have scored quite a few goals after all. It is genius, but the trick is for everyone to believe our whole back line is shit.
They are very convincing.

 

[Japhet]

Will it ever be possession based high press football? No, but that doesn't mean the quality, consistency, effectivity won't be much improved. Porro coming in and Royal's improvement have made a huge difference in the last few weeks. Having the same outlet on the left(hopefully Udogie) will also improve things dramatically. To get the best out of two expansive WB's though we need to be sure the back line will cope when they are further forward.

Conte's philosophy has always been about having a solid backline that acts like a coiled spring. We need CB's that can defend also and pass out early and wing backs that can get up and down quickly with a quality end product..

We need CBs who are quick too. Dier and Lenglet aren't quick enough to push very high up the pitch.

 

[IamSpurtacus]

They've also spent more money than us despite not having CL. Kroenke has put his money where his mouth is and just left Edu and Arteta to get on with it. that's the difference mate.

It's down to Stan's son, Josh Kroenke, who has driven success at the other teams they own in the NFL, NHL and MLB

He was just announced as co-chair today...but he's been a driving force given his focus on success on the pitch

Would love a chairman like him

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Will it ever be possession based high press football? No, but that doesn't mean the quality, consistency, effectivity won't be much improved. Porro coming in and Royal's improvement have made a huge difference in the last few weeks. Having the same outlet on the left(hopefully Udogie) will also improve things dramatically. To get the best out of two expansive WB's though we need to be sure the back line will cope when they are further forward.

Conte's philosophy has always been about having a solid backline that acts like a coiled spring. We need CB's that can defend also and pass out early and wing backs that can get up and down quickly with a quality end product..

Porro has already made a good impact and is showing how the right quality of players can impact the system and style of play.

Get Udogie back at LWB and add 2 top quality CB's and get Bissouma and Bentancur back from injury and add another AM if we don't make Danjuma permeant then Conte should have the tools to make the football effective and easier on the eye.

End of last season the style of play and results were both good, the style wasn't mindblowing but it was perfectly watchable and we were solid yet effective going forwards.

I have no doubt that if we get Conte what he 'wants/needs' this summer that next season 'could' be a lot better both in terms of results and style of play however:
1) It remains to be seen if we will get him exactly what he 'wants/needs'
2) If he does get what he wants/needs will he actually get the most out of those players because for example Bissouma and Richarlison imo have been let down by Conte
3) Will Conte's attitude and mannerisms in pressers and around the place still be overall a bit negative and gives off the impression that he is doing us a favour?
4) Will he commit longer-term or will it at best just be a 1year extension for next season (if so that doesn't give us that much to buy into)
5) Conte's natural mindset will always be defensive first, its the old skool Italian way, hence his substitution of Sanchez for Kulu or when we have been 2/3-0 down in other games he's made moves to make sure the score doesn't get worse rather than gamble and try to turn the game around (for me this is at odds with the attitude and DNA and desires of our club and fans)
6) Even if Conte gets a good say 5-6 top quality players this summer there is no guarantee that the style of play will improve that much as his philosophy is at best 'balanced' rather than attacking or enterprising or daring or creative, its also going to always be a very rigid set-up.

So yes things 'could' get better in terms of style of play and results IF we get him a good say 5-6 top signings in summer (huge IF) but they could also not and is the balance and trade off of the above points worth it to carry on with him, that Q is hard to answer right now.

One thing I would say to support both sides is: Conte is a proven world class manager so if we do back him enough and for long enough you'd think we'd have a decent chance of some success, however on the flip-side his 3-4-3 system is very specialist and as such requires very specialist players, if we'd hired a coach who following Nuno wanted to play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, the re-build would've been far quicker than it has been and added to that Conte isn't typically a longer-term project type manager so at some point you'd think this summer or at longest the one after, he would leave and we'd be left with quite a specialised squad mainly suited to quite a niche system and style...

We shall see how it all plays out.

 

[Stavrogin]

They've also spent more money than us despite not having CL. Kroenke has put his money where his mouth is and just left Edu and Arteta to get on with it. that's the difference mate.

They might have spent more but they absolutely had to. Years of atrocious purchases and general underinvestment put them in that position. Many smaller clubs outspend us in certain periods. These things go in cycles. We'll likely be spending big in the near future on GKs, defenders, and replacements for Kane and Son.

We'll never be as bad as they were in recent years. Maybe that was our problem.

 

[IamSpurtacus]

Years of atrocious purchases and general underinvestment

You could be describing us...we've had a mid-table squad masked by 5 - 7 world class or near world class players

 

[parj]

Arsenal were able to rotate better because of Europa League.

Arsenal have 8 players who have played more than 2000 minutes in the league this year.

Spurs have 3, and two of them are Dier and Hojbjerg...

How much of that is Conte refusing to play the likes of Sarr and Gil? Arsenal are using their squad, and don't forget, we were happy to laugh their squad quality

 

[mil1lion]

They might have spent more but they absolutely had to. Years of atrocious purchases and general underinvestment put them in that position. Many smaller clubs outspend us in certain periods. These things go in cycles. We'll likely be spending big in the near future on GKs, defenders, and replacements for Kane and Son.

We'll never be as bad as they were in recent years. Maybe that was our problem.

We've been in need of as much as they have. We've only just finished above them in the last few seasons running. Prior to Paratici coming in I think they pulled ahead in their transfer strategy. We got back on track and have matched them the last 3 windows. It still feels we're playing catch up from the previous windows though.

 

[mil1lion]

How much of that is Conte refusing to play the likes of Sarr and Gil? Arsenal are using their squad, and don't forget, we were happy to laugh their squad quality

I think the point is that you can't rotate as much in the CL. In the Europa we would play Vinicius and in the Conference we would play Scarlett. The CL is different and you have to go full strength playing that level. The PL is also such a high level too there's not many games to rotate with unproven quality. Conte pretty much wants senior players in every game unless it's a domestic cup one. Trouble is it leads to us going out of the cups and complaining that he didn't go full strength. I'm sure he wants a bigger squad of senior players to go strong 3 times a week.