Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[carpediem991]

I think the point is that you can't rotate as much in the CL. In the Europa we would play Vinicius and in the Conference we would play Scarlett. The CL is different and you have to go full strength playing that level. The PL is also such a high level too there's not many games to rotate with unproven quality. Conte pretty much wants senior players in every game unless it's a domestic cup one. Trouble is it leads to us going out of the cups and complaining that he didn't go full strength. I'm sure he wants a bigger squad of senior players to go strong 3 times a week.

When Skipp, Bryan or Sarr came in did they really look much worse than a bad form Son, Hojbjerg or Lucas?

No one demands full changes for certain events but a use of a squad, especially if some players underperform week in week out. It did not hold Conte back to play for example Sessegnon over and over again with no success.

Every team wants a bigger squad of senior players, thats obvious and a bit pointless. But also senior players will struggle to adapt if given no game time. Danjuma is another example, we will never know if he can improve us if not given a run of games...

It appears to me that Conte is like a god to some who is above all other managers and is allowed only to play and demand for his players rather than play the cards that are on his hand.
Somehow clubs like Man City or Liverpool manage to give some of their younger players starts and minutes every season.

 

[parj]

I think the point is that you can't rotate as much in the CL. In the Europa we would play Vinicius and in the Conference we would play Scarlett. The CL is different and you have to go full strength playing that level. The PL is also such a high level too there's not many games to rotate with unproven quality. Conte pretty much wants senior players in every game unless it's a domestic cup one. Trouble is it leads to us going out of the cups and complaining that he didn't go full strength. I'm sure he wants a bigger squad of senior players to go strong 3 times a week.

I'm not being funny but Sarr proved himself against Milan. He didn't just learn to play football overnight, he has been able to play for a while and just not given a chance until injuries came along. For me, Conte doesn't get the mission if he thinks he going to get a squad of 25 first teamers. He needs to use the squad, just like everyone else does.

 

[nico97531]

They might have spent more but they absolutely had to. Years of atrocious purchases and general underinvestment put them in that position. Many smaller clubs outspend us in certain periods. These things go in cycles. We'll likely be spending big in the near future on GKs, defenders, and replacements for Kane and Son.

We'll never be as bad as they were in recent years. Maybe that was our problem.

Of course they have to, because they have the desire and plans to compete for titles.

Years of atrocious purchases and general underinvestment is probably what I would use to describe us too prior to our DOF coming in, the only reason we were on top for the last couple of years were due to the excellence of Son and Kane, one of them was free.

Do you really see Levy sanctioning 100M purchases to replace Kane or 80M to replace Son?

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

How much of that is Conte refusing to play the likes of Sarr and Gil? Arsenal are using their squad, and don't forget, we were happy to laugh their squad quality

I don't know how you are defining "Using their squad".

But, in the league, Arsenal have 8 players who have played in at least 26 of 27 games.

Spurs have 2 - just Kane and Hojbjerg.


I would say the biggest difference between Arsenal and Spurs - Arsenal have had a settled, and injury-free, starting XI. While Conte has been forced to use more of his squad to cover for injuries.


Arsenal have 3 young players who start - Saliba, Saka, and Martinelli - and they would all start for Spurs if they were here. But Arteta is not playing any other youth prospects. The closest is ESR, who has 7 sub appearances, totaling 98 minutes.

 

[RuskyM]

I would say the biggest difference between Arsenal and Spurs - Arsenal have had a settled, and injury-free, starting XI. While Conte has been forced to use more of his squad to cover for injuries.

Arsenal's consistent luck with their settled side is something, but it's worth noting Nketiah's come in for Jesus and it's been pretty seamless - that's not luck, that's good coaching. As is moving Ben White over to RB, entrusting Xhaka rather than casting him out, signing Ramsdale and cutting Aubameyang - four big decisions that showed flexibility and a clear identity. A lot of luck has come in Arteta's career, but comparing where the two were at the end of last season - us bouyant, them devastated - and seeing where they are now isn't down to luck.

 

[mil1lion]

When Skipp, Bryan or Sarr came in did they really look much worse than a bad form Son, Hojbjerg or Lucas?

No one demands full changes for certain events but a use of a squad, especially if some players underperform week in week out. It did not hold Conte back to play for example Sessegnon over and over again with no success.

Every team wants a bigger squad of senior players, thats obvious and a bit pointless. But also senior players will struggle to adapt if given no game time. Danjuma is another example, we will never know if he can improve us if not given a run of games...

It appears to me that Conte is like a god to some who is above all other managers and is allowed only to play and demand for his players rather than play the cards that are on his hand.
Somehow clubs like Man City or Liverpool manage to give some of their younger players starts and minutes every season.

I'm not being funny but Sarr proved himself against Milan. He didn't just learn to play football overnight, he has been able to play for a while and just not given a chance until injuries came along. For me, Conte doesn't get the mission if he thinks he going to get a squad of 25 first teamers. He needs to use the squad, just like everyone else does.

Oh I agree, I'd like to see him put more trust in youngsters but it's not what he does. He only calls on them when he really needs too. He hardly used Skipp until Bentancur and Bissouma were injured and yet he's been excellent. He was also excellent when Conte arrived up until his injury. Sarr started in Milan because Hojbjerg was suspended and Gil started against Palace with Kulusevski injured. The problem we have is we have these quality young players but Conte doesn't show enough trust in them so it's not a good squad to fit the manager. We either get another manager like Poch who puts faith in his youngsters (which is working well for arsenal and Barca) or we loan more youngsters and get more experienced players for Conte. I just haven't seen enough evidence that he will put the faith in younger players unless he really needs too. Otherwise he's mainly rotating the more experienced players so he's using about 1 and a half of his squad regularly.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Arsenal's consistent luck with their settled side is something, but it's worth noting Nketiah's come in for Jesus and it's been pretty seamless - that's not luck, that's good coaching. As is moving Ben White over to RB, entrusting Xhaka rather than casting him out, signing Ramsdale and cutting Aubameyang - four big decisions that showed flexibility and a clear identity. A lot of luck has come in Arteta's career, but comparing where the two were at the end of last season - us bouyant, them devastated - and seeing where they are now isn't down to luck.

Agree.

We get 1-2 big injuries or are without Kane, Kulu or Romero and our whole team and system falls apart, Arsenal lose Jesus and Party and Nketia/Trossard and Jorginho just step in seamlessly because their system is easy for those players to come into.

Also they’re creating tons of chances and having a lot of the ball and dominating most games so if their team is weakened by 1-2 players they’re regressing from a very positive stance, we are/we’re grinding out wins with little creativity and few chances so take away 1-2 key players and we regress a lot from a fragile place anyway.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Agree.

We get 1-2 big injuries or are without Kane, Kulu or Romero and our whole team and system falls apart, Arsenal lose Jesus and Party and Nketia/Trossard and Jorginho just step in seamlessly because their system is easy for those players to come into.

Also they’re creating tons of chances and having a lot of the ball and dominating most games so if their team is weakened by 1-2 players they’re regressing from a very positive stance, we are/we’re grinding out wins with little creativity and few chances so take away 1-2 key players and we regress a lot from a fragile place anyway.

They went out and bought Trossard/loaned in Jorginho to cover Jesus and Partay when we needed a strong CB to pair with Romero we signed a LW in Danjuma. That says it all really in terms of recruitment too.

 

[Dazzazzad]

They went out and bought Trossard/loaned in Jorginho to cover Jesus and Partay when we needed a strong CB to pair with Romero we signed a LW in Danjuma. That says it all really in terms of recruitment too.

Couple points.

1 - we've conceded 7 in 9 (4 in one game too) since the window closed.
2 - maybe even more than cbs we needed a rwb and, to use your words, "we went out and bought" one of the better offensive RWBs avaliable.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Couple points.

1 - we've conceded 7 in 9 (4 in one game too) since the window closed.
2 - maybe even more than cbs we needed a rwb and, to use your words, "we went out and bought" one of the better offensive RWBs avaliable.

Fair points but

1. When the window opened we had conceded the 3rd highest in the league, relegation form in that regard so regardless of how things have gone since then, we needed a CB and that hasn’t changed.

2. We definitely upgraded at RWB, but this is after we already bought one who’ll never be used in the summer and arguably Emerson’s form would’ve been good enough for the season. It wasn’t a necessity IMO, not as much as a new CB.

Have to remember that Arteta has pretty much had free reign in terms of recruiting who he wants whereas Conte has had to make do in certain instances, just like the CB debacle.

 

[DiVaio]

I don't know how you are defining "Using their squad".

But, in the league, Arsenal have 8 players who have played in at least 26 of 27 games.

Spurs have 2 - just Kane and Hojbjerg.


I would say the biggest difference between Arsenal and Spurs - Arsenal have had a settled, and injury-free, starting XI. While Conte has been forced to use more of his squad to cover for injuries.


Arsenal have 3 young players who start - Saliba, Saka, and Martinelli - and they would all start for Spurs if they were here. But Arteta is not playing any other youth prospects. The closest is ESR, who has 7 sub appearances, totaling 98 minutes.

And Son, Lloris, Bentancur, Romero, plus possibly Davies would also play more than 2000 minutes in Premier League this season if they didn't have injuries. As you said - Conte has been FORCED to use more of his squad, he wasn't willing to use them before other players got injured.

I would also say that usually well-coached teams are still good even without key players? Arsenal is doing ok without Jesus this season. We were unbeaten last season playing as 3atb without Romero. We were still very good playing without Harry Kane under Poch because

They went out and bought Trossard/loaned in Jorginho to cover Jesus and Partay when we needed a strong CB to pair with Romero we signed a LW in Danjuma. That says it all really in terms of recruitment too.

What's more important is the fact Arteta uses Trossard and Jorginho even when it's obvious his first choice targets was Mudryk and Caicedo.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

They went out and bought Trossard/loaned in Jorginho to cover Jesus and Partay when we needed a strong CB to pair with Romero we signed a LW in Danjuma. That says it all really in terms of recruitment too.

Didn’t we prioritise a RWB and spend £45mil on Porro

Our recruitment lately has been ok under paratici and conte but the system and style aren’t great without a lot of specialist players

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Didn’t we prioritise a RWB and spend £45mil on Porro

Our recruitment lately has been ok under paratici and conte but the system and style aren’t great without a lot of specialist players

We may have but that wasn’t the critical position we needed to fill, and we could’ve had Ndicka for £25 million but the club wouldn’t pay that much.

I do wonder which of the two positions were prioritised by Conte though, it would be safe to assume RWB.

Paratici has been a great addition in terms of recruitment but I feel the club keeps falling short regardless of how well he does in each window. We’re always 80% of the way there.

 

[carpediem991]

Oh I agree, I'd like to see him put more trust in youngsters but it's not what he does. He only calls on them when he really needs too. He hardly used Skipp until Bentancur and Bissouma were injured and yet he's been excellent. He was also excellent when Conte arrived up until his injury. Sarr started in Milan because Hojbjerg was suspended and Gil started against Palace with Kulusevski injured. The problem we have is we have these quality young players but Conte doesn't show enough trust in them so it's not a good squad to fit the manager. We either get another manager like Poch who puts faith in his youngsters (which is working well for arsenal and Barca) or we loan more youngsters and get more experienced players for Conte. I just haven't seen enough evidence that he will put the faith in younger players unless he really needs too. Otherwise he's mainly rotating the more experienced players so he's using about 1 and a half of his squad regularly.

Exactly, and I think that is shit management and not sustainable for our club. If the senior players would pull out trees and look like they know what they are doing you could accept this kind of management.

 

[carpediem991]

We may have but that wasn’t the critical position we needed to fill, and we could’ve had Ndicka for £25 million but the club wouldn’t pay that much.

I do wonder which of the two positions were prioritised by Conte though, it would be safe to assume RWB.

Paratici has been a great addition in terms of recruitment but I feel the club keeps falling short regardless of how well he does in each window. We’re always 80% of the way there.

You have zero idea if we could have had Ndicka. If he and his agent are up for a big signing fee at the end of the season there is nothing you can do. And btw, Ndicka is playing pretty shit in 2023...

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We may have but that wasn’t the critical position we needed to fill, and we could’ve had Ndicka for £25 million but the club wouldn’t pay that much.

I do wonder which of the two positions were prioritised by Conte though, it would be safe to assume RWB.

Paratici has been a great addition in terms of recruitment but I feel the club keeps falling short regardless of how well he does in each window. We’re always 80% of the way there.

I’m sure Conte would have liked a CB in Jan if any of our targets were available but it’s pure speculation to say it was ‘critical’. Conte even came out before the window and said we were okay at CB with Tanganga returning from injury.

I always feel there is a disparity between what fans feel are critical positions to upgrade, and what the club/manager prioritise. Which ends up generating a toxic atmosphere in the fan base.

 

[chrisd2k]

If we'd have got a CB you'd all be saying he needed a specialist attacking RWB for the formation to work.

Lots of assumptions and over analysis in this.

Looking at the fixtures we may very well get top 4 which is great, but we haven't really been competitive when it counts and, for me at least, external factors have also played their part in that achievement should we get there.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

I would say both are needed. Its just like Tetris (our new 23/24 home shirt) if you don't solve the problems in time they will just pile up and it would become worse

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

You have zero idea if we could have had Ndicka. If he and his agent are up for a big signing fee at the end of the season there is nothing you can do. And btw, Ndicka is playing pretty shit in 2023...

We had ITK (WLB #7) on it, I didn’t just pull that out of thin air. We were also linked with Hincapie who occupies a similar position.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I’m sure Conte would have liked a CB in Jan if any of our targets were available but it’s pure speculation to say it was ‘critical’. Conte even came out before the window and said we were okay at CB with Tanganga returning from injury.

I always feel there is a disparity between what fans feel are critical positions to upgrade, and what the club/manager prioritise. Which ends up generating a toxic atmosphere in the fan base.

Again, we had ITK saying we needed/wanted a CB, and I’m sorry but in what world was it not critical? We had conceded the 3rd highest amount of goals in the league when the window opened that’s not speculation you just have to look at the stats to know we needed an upgrade.

The main point is Arsenal have gone out and bought players in positions that Edu/Arteta asked for, and we tend to always be left short in one position or the other.