Euro 2012: Quarter Final 4: England v Italy match thread

[Kingellesar]

Will say this many times, Aaron Lennon > Ashley Young. Full stop, no need for discussion. Rooney just shouldn't have gone full stop either, what good was him missing the first two games? Welbeck was impressive and to his credit Andy Carroll came on and put himself about when needed.

Pirlo showed Gerrard what a cm world class midfielder should play like, everyone was fapping over Gerrard getting two assists this tourney but for me he did not look fit, Parker was doing most of his work and his own, heh bit like what he did for us this season. Thanks for another crap tournament but now is the time to say bye to Gerrard and Terry. (even though he did well, he is still a ****) Young and Rooney should be left out of next few squads to see what replacements are like. Maybe we can stop all the Rooney is world class bollocks now.

Oh and Scotty should be captain now, experience head with a young team around him.

Hart
Walker
Cahill
Lescott
Cole
Parker
Wilshire
Lennon
Ox
Walcott
Welbeck

Ox, as many have said will end up playing a central role, he likes it, so why not a front 3 of Walcott, Lennon and Ox? Would kill any team with pace, then have Carroll or Welbeck up top for height and strength.

 

[fortworthspur]

Young and Milner shouldnt sniff a spot in the side, but sadly that's the state of English football right now.

 

[Kingellesar]

Milner for me is the perfect sub player, great to bring on if controlling a game and winning as he can give cover at RM/RB or even in CM but why we insisted on starting with him every game I do not know, Walcott could've got some joy against the full backs today of Italy who were pracitcally back up LW/RW.

 

[ethanedwards]

That penalty from Pirlo was the most beautiful moment of that game.

It will probably end up there with the Cruyff drag back, in footballing folklore. Titanium coated gonads for sure.

 

[Mr Pink]

I couldn't believe Young wasn't brought off, Milner was actually doing alright IMO, a lot better than Young although that wouldn't be hard.

For me Young was the poorest performer right throughout the tournament, one cross against the Ukraine I think, was the height of it - shocking really.

But yes, England are well out of their depth at this level. Its simple really, they can't retain the football and just give it away for fun. They lack the technical ability to pass and move when they're getting pressed (the only time I saw them do this very well was that instance in the first half from the corner flag, Gerrard and Rooney interchanging brillantly to spark an attack, that was impressive and we don't see this anywhere near enough)

How many times did you see the Italians press them when England were trying to play out from the back? Every time they were pressed they passed back to Hart who lumped it and ceded possession....it was like ground hog day over and over again. Would love to see a stat on how many times Johnson passed back to Hart.

We defended well enough but its not enough at this level, you have to be able to hold the ball for respite and of course to deny the amount of time the opposition have on it.

Unitil England can produce a group of players who have the nous and technical ability to play more cohesive and inventive football we'll always see the same result ie quarter finals at best.

Given how poor we are Hodgson has done quite well really.

I don't get the Harry talk either, yeah we might of expressed ourselves more but I doubt we would of won the group they way we did, grinding it out.

We probably would of lost 4-2 tonight in the 90 minutes.

The problem with England isn't the manager, its a lack of technical ability and understanding at this level.

 

[Marty]

It will probably end up there with the Cruyff drag back, in footballing folklore. Titanium coated gonads for sure.

Not quite. Panenka did the same thing in the final in '76, THAT's in footballing folklore. Pirlo's, although brilliant, won't be as well remembered as well because it's been done before.

 

[Kingellesar]

Maybe we should give Joey Barton a go?

It's not as though we haven't got enough twats in the squad, one more won't hurt.

 

[Marty]

...

Agree with nearly all of that, except that Milner was just as poor as Young was. 50/50 which one would be taken off imo.

England's off-the-ball pressing was awful, the defensive line was very often too high considering the awful pressing, and when they got the ball they were completely inept at keeping possession. A lot of things have to change at the grassroots level before we can start seeing results nationally, so even though there are some talented youngsters on their way through I seriously doubt that England will change much any time soon.

And I would also like to agree that Hodgson, despite everything, has done the best he could with the players available.

 

[mpickard2087]

Still amazed how Young wasnt subbed off, never really rated him anyway so not surprised at his dire performances. Occasionally cutting inside and curling one in the top corner doesnt make you any good.

 

[Mr Pink]

Agree with nearly all of that, except that Milner was just as poor as Young was. 50/50 which one would be taken off imo.

England's off-the-ball pressing was awful, the defensive line was very often too high considering the awful pressing, and when they got the ball they were completely inept at keeping possession. A lot of things have to change at the grassroots level before we can start seeing results nationally, so even though there are some talented youngsters on their way through I seriously doubt that England will change much any time soon.

And I would also like to agree that Hodgson, despite everything, has done the best he could with the players available.

I think Milner whipped in a couple of decent crosses, one in the second half in particular. I just couldn't believe my eyes watching Young, he just lost the ball nearly every time he received it.

Don't get me wrong Milner was nothing special whatsoever, I just thought Young was the worst player in an England shirt by a mile...his reputation and good form before the tournament kept him on the pitch IMO.

 

[Mr Pink]

Can't believe Carrick wasn't played as a first choice, criminal IMO.

 

[jurgen]

Was it c***face Tyldesley in the first match who in describing Oxlaide-Chamberlain, said 'you can train and train as much as you like but there's no substitute for natural talent', which said it all really. But also laid bare how low that natural talent bar is for England these days....

 

[Mr Pink]

a 4-3-3, looking like this:

Hart

Walker
Lescott
Terry
Cole

Wilshere
Carrick
Gerrard

Walcott
Rooney
Young (if he could actually produce some form)

That team would of stood a far greater chance, for a start to two players who are actually capable of passing the ball intelligently - obviously the extra man in midfield.

That midfield could retain the ball a lot better I'm sure of it, that front three has goals in them - plenty, if you look how many they rack up for their Clubs.

In an ideal world that's the side I would pick for England in the here and now.

 

[ziggy]

I thought Carroll did well for the most part, to be fair it's not his fault that England resorted to lumping it just because he was on the pitch. Won a lot in the air, brought it down really well a few times, and was generally positive but for a few stray passes.

Not saying he did play badly but as we used to do with crouch on the field often the ball was just lumped upfield which often meant losing possession and the Italians just kept coming at us.even with my spurs hat off I would have given Defoe a go in the hope he could have nicked a goal from outside the box.Roy already has his favourites though it seems. Young I'd obviously one of them.

 

[fortworthspur]

Carroll is too slow. Reminds me of Pav, tbh. Decent technical ability but the game is moving half a step faster than he is.

 

[stemark44]

There is nothing wrong with the England team that decent coaching couldn't put right in a couple of months.
I have said it umpteen times,the quality of managers/coaches in the English game is absolutely atrocious!
Just look at what Gary Speed(R.I.P) did for Wales or what Brendan Rodgers did for Swansea in a short space of time.
If you want to do well at International level....................you have to keep the ball.
It really is that simple!

Pirlo and Montolivo were the best players on the pitch tonight.

 

[OmarsComing]

Will say this many times, Aaron Lennon > Ashley Young. Full stop, no need for discussion. Rooney just shouldn't have gone full stop either, what good was him missing the first two games? Welbeck was impressive and to his credit Andy Carroll came on and put himself about when needed.

Pirlo showed Gerrard what a cm world class midfielder should play like, everyone was fapping over Gerrard getting two assists this tourney but for me he did not look fit, Parker was doing most of his work and his own, heh bit like what he did for us this season. Thanks for another crap tournament but now is the time to say bye to Gerrard and Terry. (even though he did well, he is still a ****) Young and Rooney should be left out of next few squads to see what replacements are like. Maybe we can stop all the Rooney is world class bollocks now.

Oh and Scotty should be captain now, experience head with a young team around him.

Hart
Walker
Cahill
Lescott
Cole
Parker
Wilshire
Lennon
Ox
Walcott
Welbeck

Ox, as many have said will end up playing a central role, he likes it, so why not a front 3 of Walcott, Lennon and Ox? Would kill any team with pace, then have Carroll or Welbeck up top for height and strength.

no matter how shit Rooney played tonight, he is still England's best player and no way can he be dropped.

 

[beats1]

Pirlo left to do what he wants...bad tactical error today.

Exactly what moron lets the only player with genuine football intelligence who is getting old, time on the ball to do what he wants

Hes not a steven gerrard who only pings it 70 yards to someone in a blind alley or someone waving because they have a bit of space

Feel like Im in a country full of numpties to think Roy has done better than Fabio, at least with Fabio we seemed to attack it seems because he spoke broken english and was italian he was judged to be worse

 

[beats1]

That's what you get by employing Hodgson as he is always cautious.

Cautious, shit they were allergic to the other half let alone cautious, I'm pretty sure Roy gave the players a minute timer if they crossed no mans land(italian midfield)

This England performance is so Greek-like it's painful. You would think we were protecting a 1 goal lead.

Greek like , you're having a fucking laugh, the greeks attacked the russians more than we attacked the Swede's, Italians, French and Ukrainians put together. Greece deserved to beat Russia, England never look they deserved a win

Problem with anti football is, sooner or later the individual goals run out

 

[beats1]

a 4-3-3, looking like this:

Hart

Walker
Lescott
Terry
Cole

Wilshere
Carrick
Gerrard

Walcott
Rooney
Young (if he could actually produce some form)

That team would of stood a far greater chance, for a start to two players who are actually capable of passing the ball intelligently - obviously the extra man in midfield.

That midfield could retain the ball a lot better I'm sure of it, that front three has goals in them - plenty, if you look how many they rack up for their Clubs.

In an ideal world that's the side I would pick for England in the here and now.

Agreed but it doesn't fit in with Roy's principal's of Defend, Defend and Defend some more

Other nations dream of having a player's like ours but we haven't had a manager since Hoddle that tried to play football properly, how Brooking is allowed to be Technical Director iirc he was one of the few to benefit from Greenwood, well must of left a impression as he has just reincarnated him

If you use the barca tactics of 2006, this would look strong for the Euro's

Hart​

​

Richards Ferdinand Lescott Cole​

​

Parker​

-----------------Carrick​

Gerrard---------​

​

Walcott----------------------Young​

Rooney​

As crazy as this sounds I would of taken Cole to the Euros as he was brilliant for Lille and has done well in a England shirt, always a wildcard imo