Jose Mourinho
- Thread starter TwanYid
- Start date
Hoddle&Waddle
Well-Known Member
- Nov 25, 2012
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What's worrying is this is exactly the way he played at Man United. He drove the fans crazy with his continuous playing of Matic, who was 'cumbersome and immobile'. The long balls up to Lukaku, the refusal to play out from the back.
We've got the exact same guy, he hasn't changed anything.
RikkiRocket
Well-Known Member
- Jul 21, 2015
- 1,605
- 3,277
Poch wrung a lot out of our current squad. With little or no investment at certain points. Becoming clear now that Levy has brought Hose in to squeeze that sponge just a bit more and see if we can get a few final drops out of it.
The results are fairly clear to see.
The results are fairly clear to see.
Why look at things in isolation. If we get some midfielders on the field that can actually receive the ball under a bit of pressure and pass it intelligently, then Dier is decent at providing a bit of defensive nous in midfield. If the thinking is to pair him up with Sissoko and let Aurier and Sanchez try and find the forwards with 60 meter passes, then he'll look as lost as the rest of them.
But we should obviously try and upgrade on him as soon as possible.
Sorry but I don’t understand this argument. You are essentially absolving Dier of any blame for being unable to pass the ball forwards.
Winks used to get the same thing, excuses made for him that the reason he doesn’t pass forward is because the strikers don’t make runs for him ??
The fact is Dier is to blame because he’s utter shit in possession and can’t pass. Even when there are passes available forward wise he turned and passes back. Our CM is so poor they delegate the passing forward part of their job to the CBs. disgraceful.
Our CM quality wise is utter toilet. You only have to see the difference Ndombele makes when he comes on to see what the problem is. We need to enter the market and sign a DM that can pass, until that happens we are fucked.
Seafordian Spurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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You'd think but it seems like the players he left and probably chucked under a bus at both clubs were bang up for beating him.
Seafordian Spurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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Those were the days. Jose's gonna mould him, he's gonna get back to his best...... ?
That wasn't my intention. Ideally, I'd have Dier be Fabinho or someone like that. I just think that we need his defensive nous and that we should pair him with some passers.
I end my post by saying that I'd like an upgrade, but at this moment in time, he's basically our only DM.
I have to be honest I struggle to see his defensive nous. I get your point though, he has more of it than Winks does so Dier has to play.
Sincerely I believe Dier is finished at Spurs.
Wsussexspur
Well-Known Member
- Oct 2, 2007
- 8,918
- 10,176
from the athletic:
When asked over the last couple of weeks why his Tottenham team have not always looked as fluid as they might, Jose Mourinho has been very clear in his explanation: he is not getting enough time on the training pitch to work with his players.
The routine of two matches a week in each of his first three weeks in charge has meant Mourinho has not been able to fully get across his ideas as he would have liked. “I’m not doing a lot of that work,” he said after the 2-1 defeat at Manchester United earlier this month when asked about a possible lack of intensity in his side. “You cannot work on intensity when you are permanently playing matches every two to three days.”
A week later, ahead of the clearly unwanted trip to Bayern Munich, Mourinho slumped in his chair and gave the impression of a student who kept being interrupted from his revision. “One thing that I am not having is time…” he said. “We are going to have, as you all know, an incredible number of fixtures until the New Year.”
What a relief then in the lead up to Sunday’s match against Chelsea to finally have a full week to work with his players. This would offer a glimpse of what Mourinho’s Tottenham were really about, even if he had decided to grant his squad two days off after the 2-1 win at Wolverhampton Wanderers. “I would be disappointed if the team doesn’t answer well,” he told The Athletic when asked what the result of proper preparation time would be.
In the event, Spurs’ week on the training pitch ended up being the precursor for a terrible display. In fact Sunday’s 2-0 home defeat to Chelsea — which leaves them six points outside the top four — was surely the most disjointed performance of the Mourinho era so far. It was even worse than the pretty dismal showing against United.
The game at Old Trafford is significant because it appears as though lessons have not been learned from that 2-1 loss. Mourinho stuck with the 4-2-3-1 system that saw Moussa Sissoko and Harry Winks hopelessly exposed in midfield, and against Chelsea it was Sissoko and Eric Dier who were left chasing shadows. Contrast this with the tactical gamble taken by Frank Lampard, who switched to a back three for only the second time in the Premier League this season.
Mourinho conceded afterwards that he had been tactically out-thought. “They were better than us in the first half, it’s not difficult for me to admit it,” he said. “They played in a system they are very comfortable with, a system they played for two years with Antonio Conte, a system where lots of their players are very comfortable.”
By contrast, Mourinho’s system created discomfort for Tottenham all over the pitch — not least in the chasm that existed between the midfield two and the front four. Sissoko and Dier struggled so much to play forward passes that there were groans towards the end of the first half when Dier strode towards the halfway line only to pass backwards and kill the momentum. He was hooked at half-time.
As for Mourinho’s attacking quartet, there were times in the first 45 minutes when the lack of movement made it look as though they were playing as a flat front four. Harry Kane, who spent his days off with his family in Finland last week, was so starved of service that he only touched the ball 29 times all match. And on one of the rare occasions when Dele Alli was able to come short and receive the ball, he was dispossessed to start the move that led to Chelsea’s penalty — converted by Willian — on the stroke of half-time.
With Chelsea resisting the Spurs attack comfortably, this did not look like the product of a week spent working hard on attacking patterns. Nor did the sequence at the end of the first half when Davinson Sanchez and Toby Alderweireld both tried long passes in behind the Chelsea defence. The tactic might have worked against Chelsea ordinarily, but it felt counter-intuitive against a side set up with three pacy centre-backs. The lack of a plan B was worrying.
Defensively, Spurs were similarly exposed. Jan Vertonghen moving infield to form a narrow back three has been effective this season, but against Chelsea it presented Cesar Azpilicueta, playing as a right wing-back, with acres of space to move into. As a result he was able to get three crosses into the box from open play. “I felt that where Tottenham do defend quite compact we needed to use the sides of the pitch,” Lampard explained afterwards. “Wing-backs help that.”
What was most damaging for Tottenham from a defensive perspective was how exposed they were to counter-attacks. Again, this felt like a failing of Dier and Sissoko, who did not offer the back four enough protection. Alderweireld in particular endured a torrid afternoon against Mason Mount, and his second-half booking for falling on the ball and grabbing it as Tammy Abraham tried to get away summarised his day.
Had they been more clinical, Chelsea could have scored a couple of goals on the counter in the second half and turned the scoreline into an embarrassment. As Mourinho admitted afterwards: “The game was basically in our half in spite of them not creating a lot.”
Perhaps the most surprising element of Sunday’s defeat was that after a week to prepare for the game, a Mourinho side was caught out by something as simple as a short corner. And yet that was how Willian fired Chelsea into the lead in the 12th minute when Serge Aurier completely switched off.
In fairness to Mourinho, Aurier has always had mistakes like these in him, and that was certainly how he saw it — rather than as the result of any sort of systemic failing. “The first goal is a short corner with a big mistake,” Mourinho said. “We know how to defend short corners, we train how to deal with short corners. The players involved in the short corner solution were not focused.”
Perhaps we can just write that off as an individual error, but it is worth noting that only a few minutes before Mourinho had reacted angrily at his side’s slowness to set up at a corner. This sort of slackness is not the sort of thing you associate with Mourinho’s teams, especially given Willian often takes his corners short due to his struggles to beat the first man.
Fikayo Tomori scored from such a situation earlier on in the season against Wolves, and in the second half another short corner led to a strike from distance from N’Golo Kante. Spurs were similarly slow to set up at a throw-in in the first half, which led to a decent chance for Mount.
The second half, when Spurs switched to a 3-4-3 and then had Son Heung-min sent off was even more chaotic.
Ultimately it was left to one of the managers to reflect on the benefits of proper time with his players. “We’ve waited a long time through a week’s training to be able to work on what we wanted to do today so that’s been great,” he said.
But, as you can probably guess, that manager was not Mourinho.
When asked over the last couple of weeks why his Tottenham team have not always looked as fluid as they might, Jose Mourinho has been very clear in his explanation: he is not getting enough time on the training pitch to work with his players.
The routine of two matches a week in each of his first three weeks in charge has meant Mourinho has not been able to fully get across his ideas as he would have liked. “I’m not doing a lot of that work,” he said after the 2-1 defeat at Manchester United earlier this month when asked about a possible lack of intensity in his side. “You cannot work on intensity when you are permanently playing matches every two to three days.”
A week later, ahead of the clearly unwanted trip to Bayern Munich, Mourinho slumped in his chair and gave the impression of a student who kept being interrupted from his revision. “One thing that I am not having is time…” he said. “We are going to have, as you all know, an incredible number of fixtures until the New Year.”
What a relief then in the lead up to Sunday’s match against Chelsea to finally have a full week to work with his players. This would offer a glimpse of what Mourinho’s Tottenham were really about, even if he had decided to grant his squad two days off after the 2-1 win at Wolverhampton Wanderers. “I would be disappointed if the team doesn’t answer well,” he told The Athletic when asked what the result of proper preparation time would be.
In the event, Spurs’ week on the training pitch ended up being the precursor for a terrible display. In fact Sunday’s 2-0 home defeat to Chelsea — which leaves them six points outside the top four — was surely the most disjointed performance of the Mourinho era so far. It was even worse than the pretty dismal showing against United.
The game at Old Trafford is significant because it appears as though lessons have not been learned from that 2-1 loss. Mourinho stuck with the 4-2-3-1 system that saw Moussa Sissoko and Harry Winks hopelessly exposed in midfield, and against Chelsea it was Sissoko and Eric Dier who were left chasing shadows. Contrast this with the tactical gamble taken by Frank Lampard, who switched to a back three for only the second time in the Premier League this season.
Mourinho conceded afterwards that he had been tactically out-thought. “They were better than us in the first half, it’s not difficult for me to admit it,” he said. “They played in a system they are very comfortable with, a system they played for two years with Antonio Conte, a system where lots of their players are very comfortable.”
By contrast, Mourinho’s system created discomfort for Tottenham all over the pitch — not least in the chasm that existed between the midfield two and the front four. Sissoko and Dier struggled so much to play forward passes that there were groans towards the end of the first half when Dier strode towards the halfway line only to pass backwards and kill the momentum. He was hooked at half-time.
As for Mourinho’s attacking quartet, there were times in the first 45 minutes when the lack of movement made it look as though they were playing as a flat front four. Harry Kane, who spent his days off with his family in Finland last week, was so starved of service that he only touched the ball 29 times all match. And on one of the rare occasions when Dele Alli was able to come short and receive the ball, he was dispossessed to start the move that led to Chelsea’s penalty — converted by Willian — on the stroke of half-time.
With Chelsea resisting the Spurs attack comfortably, this did not look like the product of a week spent working hard on attacking patterns. Nor did the sequence at the end of the first half when Davinson Sanchez and Toby Alderweireld both tried long passes in behind the Chelsea defence. The tactic might have worked against Chelsea ordinarily, but it felt counter-intuitive against a side set up with three pacy centre-backs. The lack of a plan B was worrying.
Defensively, Spurs were similarly exposed. Jan Vertonghen moving infield to form a narrow back three has been effective this season, but against Chelsea it presented Cesar Azpilicueta, playing as a right wing-back, with acres of space to move into. As a result he was able to get three crosses into the box from open play. “I felt that where Tottenham do defend quite compact we needed to use the sides of the pitch,” Lampard explained afterwards. “Wing-backs help that.”
What was most damaging for Tottenham from a defensive perspective was how exposed they were to counter-attacks. Again, this felt like a failing of Dier and Sissoko, who did not offer the back four enough protection. Alderweireld in particular endured a torrid afternoon against Mason Mount, and his second-half booking for falling on the ball and grabbing it as Tammy Abraham tried to get away summarised his day.
Had they been more clinical, Chelsea could have scored a couple of goals on the counter in the second half and turned the scoreline into an embarrassment. As Mourinho admitted afterwards: “The game was basically in our half in spite of them not creating a lot.”
Perhaps the most surprising element of Sunday’s defeat was that after a week to prepare for the game, a Mourinho side was caught out by something as simple as a short corner. And yet that was how Willian fired Chelsea into the lead in the 12th minute when Serge Aurier completely switched off.
In fairness to Mourinho, Aurier has always had mistakes like these in him, and that was certainly how he saw it — rather than as the result of any sort of systemic failing. “The first goal is a short corner with a big mistake,” Mourinho said. “We know how to defend short corners, we train how to deal with short corners. The players involved in the short corner solution were not focused.”
Perhaps we can just write that off as an individual error, but it is worth noting that only a few minutes before Mourinho had reacted angrily at his side’s slowness to set up at a corner. This sort of slackness is not the sort of thing you associate with Mourinho’s teams, especially given Willian often takes his corners short due to his struggles to beat the first man.
Fikayo Tomori scored from such a situation earlier on in the season against Wolves, and in the second half another short corner led to a strike from distance from N’Golo Kante. Spurs were similarly slow to set up at a throw-in in the first half, which led to a decent chance for Mount.
The second half, when Spurs switched to a 3-4-3 and then had Son Heung-min sent off was even more chaotic.
Ultimately it was left to one of the managers to reflect on the benefits of proper time with his players. “We’ve waited a long time through a week’s training to be able to work on what we wanted to do today so that’s been great,” he said.
But, as you can probably guess, that manager was not Mourinho.
Trees
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 1,544
- 4,234
Things that are worrying me:
Playing Eriksen. He’s off. Crazy.
Dier. Jose can’t turn water into wine. He’s basically not very good.
Sessegnon. He needs to be playing.
Lo Celso. Why is he not getting a chance ?
Foyth. What has he done wrong ?
Skipp. No one can tell me he would be inferior to Dier.
Things that encourage me.
We have started to beat inferior oppo again.
Alli. Been excellent.
Pre season and some new personnel - Jose will get us better.
Am I positive about Jose medium term. Let me answer that when we see how happy Kane is playing in the Europa next season.
Playing Eriksen. He’s off. Crazy.
Dier. Jose can’t turn water into wine. He’s basically not very good.
Sessegnon. He needs to be playing.
Lo Celso. Why is he not getting a chance ?
Foyth. What has he done wrong ?
Skipp. No one can tell me he would be inferior to Dier.
Things that encourage me.
We have started to beat inferior oppo again.
Alli. Been excellent.
Pre season and some new personnel - Jose will get us better.
Am I positive about Jose medium term. Let me answer that when we see how happy Kane is playing in the Europa next season.
GetSpurredOn
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2006
- 5,022
- 8,922
I agree the 4231 system currently isn’t working. Whether that’s just tactically, or down to personnel, or a combination of both remains to be seen. But Mourinho is no fool and has shown an ability to evolve tactically.
Looking at yesterday, it’s clear the lopsided defence left too much space wide. The midfield two lack quality on the ball, which put us under extra pressure from their press, and left our front 4 isolated, the ball was turned over too much.
I think we’d be better adopting a similar setup to Chelsea, go to a genuine back three but then have wing backs in place, and a ball player in CM alongside a destroyer, rather than two workers.
Alterntatively look at the Liverpool/City route, revert to a more traditional back 4, but then drop one of the front 4 back to add an extra CM in, playing a fluid 3 up top that can be either 4321 or 4312, Alli as a No10, Kane a No9 and Son/Moura able to drift between the lines.
Either way would give us more numbers in CM to play with greater control, because that’s what’s missing currently.
What we can take positives from is despite the Utd and Chelsea losses, out form clearly has turned around considerably, and to have the chance prior to the game yesterday to know a win would take us 4th, that’s not something I’d have seen 5/6 weeks ago. With the winter window almost open, we can at least make some minor changes now Jose has had time to address the situation.
Looking at yesterday, it’s clear the lopsided defence left too much space wide. The midfield two lack quality on the ball, which put us under extra pressure from their press, and left our front 4 isolated, the ball was turned over too much.
I think we’d be better adopting a similar setup to Chelsea, go to a genuine back three but then have wing backs in place, and a ball player in CM alongside a destroyer, rather than two workers.
Alterntatively look at the Liverpool/City route, revert to a more traditional back 4, but then drop one of the front 4 back to add an extra CM in, playing a fluid 3 up top that can be either 4321 or 4312, Alli as a No10, Kane a No9 and Son/Moura able to drift between the lines.
Either way would give us more numbers in CM to play with greater control, because that’s what’s missing currently.
What we can take positives from is despite the Utd and Chelsea losses, out form clearly has turned around considerably, and to have the chance prior to the game yesterday to know a win would take us 4th, that’s not something I’d have seen 5/6 weeks ago. With the winter window almost open, we can at least make some minor changes now Jose has had time to address the situation.
Last edited:
dudu
Well-Known Member
- Jan 28, 2011
- 5,314
- 11,048
No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about when half of SC was claiming Dier was the answer to all of Poch's defensive problems the way they are no Skipp.
No one player is to blame here and no one player is going to fix us.
Personally, I just don't think we have the confidence for these bigger occasions and Jose hasn't found the formula for getting us up for them yet.
Nebby
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2013
- 3,363
- 6,377
It's not like Chelsea were carving us open at will. I don't recall Gazza making a string of saves. But for two idiotic decisions by Aurier and Gazza, we should have gone in 0-0. Eriksen made a difference, but then he always will when you have Sanchez, Aurier, Sissoko, Dier and Lucas constantly giving the ball away. Our righthand side looks very dodgy against teams that don't give the ball away cheaply.
Danny1
Well-Known Member
- Dec 6, 2006
- 5,663
- 17,416
I see the general overreactions in here are in good force. The guy has been in charge for 8 games and a whole 1 month and 3 days and already people are saying that he is done etc etc. He has won 15 points in 7 league games, whereas previously we had 24 points from 25 games. Something isn’t right with the players we all know that and Mourinho doesn’t have many choices to be honest!
Let’s give the guy a chance shall we!
Let’s give the guy a chance shall we!
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,687
- 104,969
Knives out already. Bloody hell.
(Ive a feeling some have been sharpening them since the second he was appointed.)
(Ive a feeling some have been sharpening them since the second he was appointed.)
Spurs_Bear
Well-Known Member
- Jan 7, 2009
- 17,094
- 22,286
I do get this and agree with it, it's more my disappointment that to be honest I was looking forward to yesterday all week. It's also slightly, dare I say it, boring to be able to guess his team selection before the game starts.
The most worrying aspect of all this for me though are the comments about not needing to make signings. That's a huge worry, we don't sort midfield out and we are fucked.
jurgen
Busy ****
- Jul 5, 2008
- 6,754
- 17,355
The football has been pretty ugly but he’s all set up to be the next fall guy in a long line of them. £15m pa sounds a lot and is, but is actually pretty cheap compared to investing in the squad.
RikkiRocket
Well-Known Member
- Jul 21, 2015
- 1,605
- 3,277
yep. Who said marriage of convenience? Seems true now. Imagine being paid that much money to not sit with Neville,Souness and the other sky fuckwits. Amazing ?
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