Tottenham Takeover Talk

[piedpiper]

Wont be the fake sheikh anyway. Personally, I dont think Qatar have been interested in us for the best part of a decade.

Yeah also dont think he's interested.

 

[mil1lion]

We kept hold of world-class players and continued to develop more world-class players under Poch. At their peak under Poch, all of the following were world-class imo: Lloris, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Walker, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane. Of those eight players, Walker was sold and the other seven were retained for a significant period of time. Four (including Lloris who hasn't left yet) were retained until they declined and another (Son) still remains.

It's stating the obvious to say our recruitment wasn't good enough for about 3 years, but since then we have continued to develop more world-class players. Yes, we sold Kane last summer, but we retained him for a long time after he established himself as one of the top CFs in the world, and it's not like we signed dross last summer.
No-one can really argue with Romero and Bentancur's quality. Maddison, Bissouma, VDV & Vicario have been three of the best players in Europe in their respective positions so far this season. Other relatively young signings, such as Udogie, Porro, Sarr, Johnson, Kulusevski etc. have shown that they have really high potential. Our squad is now getting to a similar level of quality and depth that we had during our peak years under Poch. I think we're currently a couple of signings, and 1-2 years of experience together as a team, away from being a real force to be reckoned with.

Dele and Son weren't world class. Son became world class the last few years but never had the consistency back then. Dele was never world class. Walker became world class and got sold. Dembele was though. It was a solid group and we probably just needed extra quality in depth to go with that talent. We always had issues with certain players like Dembele and Eriksen when they were missing. We needed to be able to rotate more to juggle the cups and league better. We should have had the quality to win a Carabao or FA Cup but too many first teamers were missing and the quality was lacking. The squad got to its peak level around 2018/19 and started to age at a time we needed to seriously refresh again.

I think if we have a small but quality squad like we had under Poch (which we do now) it won't be enough still. Not if we want to compete on all fronts.

 

[newbie]

Dele and Son weren't world class. Son became world class the last few years but never had the consistency back then. Dele was never world class. Walker became world class and got sold. Dembele was though. It was a solid group and we probably just needed extra quality in depth to go with that talent. We always had issues with certain players like Dembele and Eriksen when they were missing. We needed to be able to rotate more to juggle the cups and league better. We should have had the quality to win a Carabao or FA Cup but too many first teamers were missing and the quality was lacking. The squad got to its peak level around 2018/19 and started to age at a time we needed to seriously refresh again.

I think if we have a small but quality squad like we had under Poch (which we do now) it won't be enough still. Not if we want to compete on all fronts.

Depends on injuries and January, plus African nations etc

 

[mil1lion]

Depends on injuries and January, plus African nations etc

Might be ok this season but when we're back in Europe quality in depth is so important

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Might be ok this season but when we're back in Europe quality in depth is so important

Yeah - we are going to need one more big turnover summer next year - we don't necessarily need to spend big, but we will have a lot of players to move out, and thus be replaced.

 

[Gb160]

So how would people feel about AI owners? Another one for the gigantic ‘no thanks’ pile?

 

[newbie]

Might be ok this season but when we're back in Europe quality in depth is so important

Such a balancing act

If we need to build a squad, give the kids a chance, but also need to recruit.

It would be criminal if Dorrington, Phillips, Donely, and (Devine, Scarlett) didn’t get a chance. Especially the first few this season.

The question is do we need the right experienced head to at the beck as 3rd choice to teach them, or a CB who’s young with experience?

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Dele and Son weren't world class. Son became world class the last few years but never had the consistency back then. Dele was never world class. Walker became world class and got sold. Dembele was though. It was a solid group and we probably just needed extra quality in depth to go with that talent. We always had issues with certain players like Dembele and Eriksen when they were missing. We needed to be able to rotate more to juggle the cups and league better. We should have had the quality to win a Carabao or FA Cup but too many first teamers were missing and the quality was lacking. The squad got to its peak level around 2018/19 and started to age at a time we needed to seriously refresh again.

I think if we have a small but quality squad like we had under Poch (which we do now) it won't be enough still. Not if we want to compete on all fronts.

Dembele definitely should have been on my list. Can't believe I forgot him!

When Son became world-class is very subjective. However, it was improved service to Son in goal-scoring areas - not improvement in Son - that saw his scoring stats jump up significantly under Mourinho (primarily as a result of Kane dropping deeper and improving his long-range passing). Son essentially switched from LW to striker, where he performed a fairly similar role to Dele (when Dele scored 22 goals in a season).

Dele was one of the first names on the England teamsheet and there were frequent reports circulating of the "big" clubs being willing to spend circa £100m on him (half a decade ago, when £100m was a bigger deal).

 

[Tucker]

So how would people feel about AI owners? Another one for the gigantic ‘no thanks’ pile?

An emotionless counting machine?

Is it much different to now?

 

[chas vs dave]

An emotionless counting machine?

Is it much different to now?

Coys Chatbot has a particular ring to it though.

 

[longtimespur]

I have to wonder for those who have a moral objection to it, whether they’d be the same if they themselves suddenly had a cheque for £10 million from the Qatari government land on their own door mat?

Would they send it back?

I’ll give you their/my address.

 

[mil1lion]

Maybe time to do another pole to see if there’s been a change of heart from the majority. Easy knee jerk when things looked so bleak.

I don't even think it's to do with form. I think it was more to do with the direction we were going. We got 2 big name managers in Jose and Conte and never really built a team that they needed to succeed. It made more sense at the time to want a new owner who would fit them managers better and spend what is needed.

Things have gone back more in line with the type of owner we have now. With Ange we don't need to spend big money on established names. We can sign players with potential and he will play and develop them. If we had got a Tuchel or a Nagelsmann then we would have still been in the same situation.

For now it seems all is good again. It's just a question of whether the current owner can provide enough for the new regime to work with each window. That means for Levy to keep out of football related matters and let them decide. As long as the targets fall into the budget and that budget is enough to keep us challenging.

 

[kd2000]

Is that still around????????
Used to take that back in the 60's

Ahh yes the yoof of today like to drop a pill or two and think theyre the first to try it, we just wouldnt understand

 

[danielneeds]

Dele and Son weren't world class. Son became world class the last few years but never had the consistency back then. Dele was never world class. Walker became world class and got sold. Dembele was though. It was a solid group and we probably just needed extra quality in depth to go with that talent. We always had issues with certain players like Dembele and Eriksen when they were missing. We needed to be able to rotate more to juggle the cups and league better. We should have had the quality to win a Carabao or FA Cup but too many first teamers were missing and the quality was lacking. The squad got to its peak level around 2018/19 and started to age at a time we needed to seriously refresh again.

I think if we have a small but quality squad like we had under Poch (which we do now) it won't be enough still. Not if we want to compete on all fronts.

I think you're underrating that squad. World class is subjective, but Pep was drooling over Walker and Rose in 2016. To me, the biggest reason that they never got over the line was Hugo. As fantastic as he was as a shotstopper, other parts of his game were too erratic and there were too many times in big away games where his nervousness gave our defence unnecessary problems, led to the panic spreading, and ultimately to defeats.

 

[mil1lion]

I think you're underrating that squad. World class is subjective, but Pep was drooling over Walker and Rose in 2016. To me, the biggest reason that they never got over the line was Hugo. As fantastic as he was as a shotstopper, other parts of his game were too erratic and there were too many times in big away games where his nervousness gave our defence unnecessary problems, led to the panic spreading, and ultimately to defeats.

Lots of players get rated by other managers. World class is a massive overstatement though. It was a great team no doubt, the best we've had in the Premier league era. To be world class you have to be a difference maker consistently in big games. Our form was still up and down in those big games. Particularly away from home. We also didn't show up enough in crucial cup games. So while it was a great team and could win big games they still fell short sadly. Also once Pep got his team shaped up they pulled away from us, same with Klopp. We had that great win at Wembley but then they had the better of us after Klopp pushed on there. We ultimately fell short to those 2 teams and our best chance was when Leicester and Chelsea won the league and the other top clubs are in transition. After that the likes of City and Liverpool overtook us. We lost our chance to stay at the top as we didn't keep on top of recruitment. The new stadium took priority over the squad and we are only now getting back on track again.

 

[danielneeds]

Lots of players get rated by other managers. World class is a massive overstatement though. It was a great team no doubt, the best we've had in the Premier league era. To be world class you have to be a difference maker consistently in big games. Our form was still up and down in those big games. Particularly away from home. We also didn't show up enough in crucial cup games. So while it was a great team and could win big games they still fell short sadly. Also once Pep got his team shaped up they pulled away from us, same with Klopp. We had that great win at Wembley but then they had the better of us after Klopp pushed on there. We ultimately fell short to those 2 teams and our best chance was when Leicester and Chelsea won the league and the other top clubs are in transition. After that the likes of City and Liverpool overtook us. We lost our chance to stay at the top as we didn't keep on top of recruitment. The new stadium took priority over the squad and we are only now getting back on track again.

I think time has shown that the likes of Walker, Toby, Jan, Eriksen and Kane were world class. As I say, Lloris was always a big problem for me. His shortcomings and decision making gave the team a wobbly base which got exposed by good sides. A more rounded keeper and we we would have probably won at least one of the titles in 2016 or 17 and maybe gone all the way in the cup.

 

[rossdapep]

I think you're underrating that squad. World class is subjective, but Pep was drooling over Walker and Rose in 2016. To me, the biggest reason that they never got over the line was Hugo. As fantastic as he was as a shotstopper, other parts of his game were too erratic and there were too many times in big away games where his nervousness gave our defence unnecessary problems, led to the panic spreading, and ultimately to defeats.

Some games, maybe.

But a lot of those games we needed to win actually came the opposition coach doign a tatical number on us.

Chelsea final (15) - Just a typical Mourinho performance where they sifled all our attack by playing 5 defensive players and played on Walker getting to high.

Leicester title-run-in - Nothing to do with Hugo, we just couldn't match Leicester's energy as soon as they got a few points ahead. The whole team switched off at crucial moments (Sanchez goal in NLD) and we ultimately had too much to do to catch them.

Chelsea semi-final FA Cup - Hugo did nothing wrong that day. Conte started with Costa and Hazard on the bench and Son startarted LWB. Conte got it right, Poch got it wrong.

United semi-final FA Cup - Another Mourinho battle. But I think this was the game Demebele showed his hips had gone, he was at fault for losing the ball for their equaliser and their second goal was a bit lucky as Lukaku tried to touch the ball ony for it to fall to Herrera, so it took Hugo by surprise.

CL Final - Nothing Hugo did wrong in this one. Shit penalty call but we didn;t really start pressing Liverpool until later on. I think the whole team was a little nervous (and Poch).

There was times Hugo messed up (City away 2-2) but I really don't see him as being the reason we didn't get over the line. We just were not quite tacticlaly astute in crucial moments.

 

[danielneeds]

Some games, maybe.

But a lot of those games we needed to win actually came the opposition coach doign a tatical number on us.

Chelsea final (15) - Just a typical Mourinho performance where they sifled all our attack by playing 5 defensive players and played on Walker getting to high.

Leicester title-run-in - Nothing to do with Hugo, we just couldn't match Leicester's energy as soon as they got a few points ahead. The whole team switched off at crucial moments (Sanchez goal in NLD) and we ultimately had too much to do to catch them.

Chelsea semi-final FA Cup - Hugo did nothing wrong that day. Conte started with Costa and Hazard on the bench and Son startarted LWB. Conte got it right, Poch got it wrong.

United semi-final FA Cup - Another Mourinho battle. But I think this was the game Demebele showed his hips had gone, he was at fault for losing the ball for their equaliser and their second goal was a bit lucky as Lukaku tried to touch the ball ony for it to fall to Herrera, so it took Hugo by surprise.

CL Final - Nothing Hugo did wrong in this one. Shit penalty call but we didn;t really start pressing Liverpool until later on. I think the whole team was a little nervous (and Poch).

There was times Hugo messed up (City away 2-2) but I really don't see him as being the reason we didn't get over the line. We just were not quite tacticlaly astute in crucial moments.

There were a lot of big games away at Anfield, Emirates where they pressed us and Hugo totally lost his head and spread nervousness all through his defence. They usually came with errors. He was a fine shotstopper, but his overall game really wasn't great, especially for a ream that had such great passers in defence and wanted to pass out from the back.

 

[mil1lion]

I think time has shown that the likes of Walker, Toby, Jan, Eriksen and Kane were world class. As I say, Lloris was always a big problem for me. His shortcomings and decision making gave the team a wobbly base which got exposed by good sides. A more rounded keeper and we we would have probably won at least one of the titles in 2016 or 17 and maybe gone all the way in the cup.

I think you're being too harsh on Lloris there. We were fine at the back and had a solid defence for some time under Poch. I just think we fell short ultimately due to the squad depth. Leicester and Chelsea had no Europe which helped them finish ahead of us while we juggled more cup games.

It's just there were only a few areas where we had good cover. Fullback was good, we rotated well with Davies and Trippier. We did OK with Sanchez but didn't have a great 4th choice, Foyth struggled with us. Dier and Wanyama were good in rotation but nobody was suitable to come in for Dembele. By the time Winks became established the end of the road had come for Dembele and Sissoko was a totally different type of player. Lamela was a good squad player but like Wanyama had his injury issues.

We probably had a solid 16 man squad with a few world class players and a number of great players. Beyond that the drop off was huge and stayed like it post Poch for a few years. Our record in cups really went downhill especially in Europe and it was clear the more of those squad players who came in made for a bigger drop off in performance. The issue was that the top quality 16 was fading, Toby, Jan and Dembele were coming to the end. That's when Lloris really dropped off too so we we had 4 core players who weren't replaced, that was after Walker left and also wasn't replaced with the same level. Then you had Eriksen whose head was elsewhere in his final half season when Poch left.

I think we got a few years of peak quality from the squad but we needed a longer sustained period at that level. We really needed something that was going to keep going so we could keep challenging. We didn't have enough time with that standard of squad to build the winning mentality. Even had we won a trophy under Poch the squad recruitment set us back so we would not have followed up with more titles. It would have been like Leicester winning a couple of trophies during a peak period of recruitment. Then a massive drop off and no titles again for a long time. Thankfully we got back on top of it before it completely fell apart by bringing Paratici in. The squad has always fallen apart with no DOF and clear transfer strategy. For me the key period was when Mitchell left and the squad was not refreshed while the money was spent on the stadium.

 

[danielneeds]

I think you're being too harsh on Lloris there. We were fine at the back and had a solid defence for some time under Poch. I just think we fell short ultimately due to the squad depth. Leicester and Chelsea had no Europe which helped them finish ahead of us while we juggled more cup games.

It's just there were only a few areas where we had good cover. Fullback was good, we rotated well with Davies and Trippier. We did OK with Sanchez but didn't have a great 4th choice, Foyth struggled with us. Dier and Wanyama were good in rotation but nobody was suitable to come in for Dembele. By the time Winks became established the end of the road had come for Dembele and Sissoko was a totally different type of player. Lamela was a good squad player but like Wanyama had his injury issues.

We probably had a solid 16 man squad with a few world class players and a number of great players. Beyond that the drop off was huge and stayed like it post Poch for a few years. Our record in cups really went downhill especially in Europe and it was clear the more of those squad players who came in made for a bigger drop off in performance. The issue was that the top quality 16 was fading, Toby, Jan and Dembele were coming to the end. That's when Lloris really dropped off too so we we had 4 core players who weren't replaced, that was after Walker left and also wasn't replaced with the same level. Then you had Eriksen whose head was elsewhere in his final half season when Poch left.

I think we got a few years of peak quality from the squad but we needed a longer sustained period at that level. We really needed something that was going to keep going so we could keep challenging. We didn't have enough time with that standard of squad to build the winning mentality. Even had we won a trophy under Poch the squad recruitment set us back so we would not have followed up with more titles. It would have been like Leicester winning a couple of trophies during a peak period of recruitment. Then a massive drop off and no titles again for a long time. Thankfully we got back on top of it before it completely fell apart by bringing Paratici in. The squad has always fallen apart with no DOF and clear transfer strategy. For me the key period was when Mitchell left and the squad was not refreshed while the money was spent on the stadium.

Yeah, I don't expect many people to agree with me on Lloris, but that's how I see it. You'll never see a top possession side going for big trophies with a keeper as poor as he was with his feet and a propensity to make big errors.