the UFC thread

[Led's Zeppelin]

How many mma fights have you watched?

Look at these gloves

compared to these gloves

Too start with it's far easier to knock some one out with smaller gloves. You also can't use a traditional boxing guard because you might be kicked, elbowed or taken down. Also you can't block peoples punches with smaller gloves.

Conor caught jose flush coming in with all his weight on his front foot. Nothing "watery" about it at all. Perfectly timed.

Haha!!

I think you should respect the fact that I am speaking from a position of profound ignorance!

Nevertheless, it feels to me, in my personal subjective opinion, that the greater variety of potential attacks available in MMA diminishes each one of them when compared with the concentrated focus of boxing. In turn, this diminishes the whole sport in my eyes because a KO feels to me like less of a sporting achievement. But I stress yet again that this is a personal opinion and not an attempt to make a statement of fact.

In any event I suppose comparing the virtues of one sport with another will never get anyone very far.

 

[F_AN2CE]

Haha!!

I think you should respect the fact that I am speaking from a position of profound ignorance!

Nevertheless, it feels to me, in my personal subjective opinion, that the greater variety of potential attacks available in MMA diminishes each one of them when compared with the concentrated focus of boxing. In turn, this diminishes the whole sport in my eyes because a KO feels to me like less of a sporting achievement. But I stress yet again that this is a personal opinion and not an attempt to make a statement of fact.

In any event I suppose comparing the virtues of one sport with another will never get anyone very far.

All you need to know. Back in the day, no weight classes, hair pulling allowed, and *drumroll* Royce Gracie (And 'Big John alot slimmer). Also, nowadays the ring doesn't break down during the fight. And 'No', The knightgown that Royce is wearing is not a handicap.

 

[Hoops]

Well, I think that's very variable depending on your circles and age range etc

Now days - maybe less so now since the Frotch/Groves fight and the emergence of AJ - but mma and the UFC in particular seemed to be over taking boxing from a media promotion point of view from as far as I could see

People were taking it too seriously if anything and dismissing boxing as a result - look at the talk of mma women being able to beat Mayweather

I know plenty of peolple who know lots about UFC and next to nothing about boxing, especially younger people. I think the fact EA sports decided to focus on the new UFC game instead of making another boxing/fight night game was testament to that

Older people tend to know little about mma because they've grown up on boxing and never really taken the time to watch mma, I often hear people still labeling it with the old tags of early pre zuffa mma days. "human cock fighting" and people like Tank Abbot being the type of fighter/athlete they associate with the UFC i,e big tough brawler with limted skills

I think over here in the UK this is especially the case because mma has still to really break in to the main stream here, it of course has much more than it used to but without a successful British mma fighter to draw such attention it's difficult (especially now we're having a real boom in UK boxing world champions)

I think in younger generations and around the world mma, specifically the UFC is becoming very well established and respected, I have cousins in Rome who love it as do all their friends, I see how popular it is in American now (as I visit frequently) and I see how popular it is becoming with younger people here

As I say though - from my observation - for older people who have not really watched the sport or not watched a lot of it, I think the original reservations of it still exist and people think it is too brutal and as I said before do not realise how it has evolved from the Tank Abbot days

Edit - I should also add the Irish example. I'm sure from my username you can tell I have Irish family. Last time I was there I was speaking to some distant cousins and uncles about boxing, they hadn't even heard of Andy Lee yet were obsessed with Connor McGreggor and everything UFC

If we had a similar UFC star here the balance would probably shift somewhat that way - but AJ is creating a further swing boxings way (as did the Frotch groves fight, even Fury got the british public talking boxing now)

It's the fighters themselves that make the difference currently I feel

Which is what I said in the beginning. Its the fighter not the sport. At the moment we have 11 world champs in British boxing. If we had a public figure that was an MMA chanmp people would watch that.

For eg, since when did we care about cycling? After we won a few medals lol Now its the greatest thing ever

 

[Shea]

Which is what I said in the beginning. Its the fighter not the sport. At the moment we have 11 world champs in British boxing. If we had a public figure that was an MMA chanmp people would watch that.

For eg, since when did we care about cycling? After we won a few medals lol Now its the greatest thing ever

Yea I've always agreed with that

You're self professed wind up comment is what I debated not that, I myself said that the fighters ability would be the overriding factor of who won mma vs boxing rather than the fact one is a boxer and one a mmartist - also that if UK had a figure like McGreggor we'd have a much bigger audience for that

It's more the wider population this effects though - that the fight fan population. These figures draw in casual fans rather than those who are already fans of a sport (generally people who've trained/fought themselves or been long term fans since older era in the case of boxing)

 

[Hoops]

All you need to know. Back in the day, no weight classes, hair pulling allowed, and *drumroll* Royce Gracie (And 'Big John alot slimmer). Also, nowadays the ring doesn't break down during the fight. And 'No', The knightgown that Royce is wearing is not a handicap.

Sorry but thats boring. I want to see punches.

 

[Hoops]

Yea I've always agreed with that

You're self professed wind up comment is what I debated not that, I myself said that the fighters ability would be the overriding factor of who won mma vs boxing rather than the fact one is a boxer and one a mmartist - also that if UK had a figure like McGreggor we'd have a much bigger audience for that

It's more the wider population this effects though - that the fight fan population. These figures draw in casual fans rather than those who are already fans of a sport (generally people who've trained/fought themselves or been long term fans since older era in the case of boxing)

Its a shame for bixing that the two fights that drew in the casuals were for stinky fights. May Pac and Tyson Wlad.

AJ seems to be gaining traction though. That was a proper dust up last night. Him and Haye would be interesting as they can both punch. On a side note AJ v Fury would be awesome for the clash of styles.

 

[Shea]

Its a shame for bixing that the two fights that drew in the casuals were for stinky fights. May Pac and Tyson Wlad.

AJ seems to be gaining traction though. That was a proper dust up last night. Him and Haye would be interesting as they can both punch. On a side note AJ v Fury would be awesome for the clash of styles.

Domestic heavyweight boxing alone has much to make us all excited right now

AJ, fury and haye could all be involved in big fights in the future

With the likes of whyte, chisora and even price making for a strong domestic scene (if the rest were competing internationally)

The problem is - in boxing we don't know how many it any of those fights we will ever see where as in the ufc you'd likely see all the relevant ones

I'm hoping that with so many fighters now signed to match room or dealing with them indirectly it man's we will see the fights we want to see like we did for th3 most part during the benn watson eubank era *domestically anyway

Time will tell

 

[Hoops]

Domestic heavyweight boxing alone has much to make us all excited right now

AJ, fury and haye could all be involved in big fights in the future

With the likes of whyte, chisora and even price making for a strong domestic scene (if the rest were competing internationally)

The problem is - in boxing we don't know how many it any of those fights we will ever see where as in the ufc you'd likely see all the relevant ones

I'm hoping that with so many fighters now signed to match room or dealing with them indirectly it man's we will see the fights we want to see like we did for th3 most part during the benn watson eubank era *domestically anyway

Time will tell

I was watching an interview with Eddie Hearn and he was saying that the fighters want belts. But the biggest paydays by far for each of them is the domestic fights. So money will talk in the end.

The brits will face off eventually. Even Khan. GGG on the other hand I feel really sorry for. As nobody will take him on.

 

[mil1lion]

Out of all the scenarios I played out in my mind for the Aldo vs McGregor fight I was not expecting that! For me Conor caught Jose cold. He looked a lot looser where Jose looked tense. Some may have been the psychology played out by Conor but I don't think it was like that because all that happened before the first fight was planned. I think Jose was affected most by being out of the Octagon for a long time going in against a guy who has remained active and winning by KO. All the momentum was with Conor heading into the fight.

On one hand I was disappointed that it ended so soon. On the other hand as far as "did that just happen" moments that is up there with the biggest of them. That was as big a shock to me as Barao getting KO'd by TJ and Silva getting KO'd by Weidman. Even though I had Conor down as one of the best contenders in the sport the way he beat Jose in record time was incredible. For me Jose doesn't deserve an instant rematch because it was so decisive. I hope Edgar gets the next shot because he earned it.

Great performance by Rockhold as well. I was rooting for him to beat Weidman who although very talented I find a bit boring to watch. Rockhold for me is a more exciting champion because of his striking. The grappling was very close with Weidman slightly edging it but the difference in effective striking was clearly in Rockholds favour. It was a big mistake from Weidman that led to the take down though. The ref should have stopped the fight but I think because Weidman is so tough and was undefeated he was giving the benefit of the doubt by Herb Dean.

2 new champions and for me 2 very exciting fighters to watch. The comparison with boxing is laughable and comes from people who still don't understand what MMA is. I respect Boxing but you can't compare the Boxing in MMA to professional Boxing. The whole point in MMA and the reason UFC was founded was to pit different disciplines against one another. They wanted to see how a Karate guy would do against a Muay Thai guy. How a Judo fighter would do against a Wrestler. How a Boxer would do against a Kickboxer.

UFC started out as a sport where fighters came from 1 discipline and they had little to no experience of any other. As the sport grew more and more fighters trained in other disciplines. We saw wrestlers bring in striking coaches and Jiu Jitsu guys. Hell we've seen fighters like GSP train with Freddie Roach. There are fighters like King Mo who train with Floyd Mayweather Sr. They're still improving in the striking game but Boxers just Box, MMA guys fight. There's no worrying about the grappling exchange, flying knees, spinning elbows, clinches against the fence, kicks etc in Boxing. The distances in MMA are totally different to Boxing or even Kickboxing as is fighting in a cage vs a ring (a reason why many Pride fighters struggled to adjust to the Octagon).

I can understand why when watching Boxing and then watching MMA people think MMA fighters are not talented Boxers. I bet it's the same for guys who watch BJJ tournaments and then watch UFC. It's true that they are not on the same level with Boxing just as any other individual discipline. However you put a Boxer in the UFC and it's totally different. We rarely see Boxers in UFC because they have too much else to learn. To succeed in MMA you have to build up to it. Holly Holm has done that by doing Boxing and Kickboxing and now she works on grappling at one of the best gyms. I think as UFC grows and the money builds up we'll start seeing more guys at an early age going from Boxing to MMA but probably more Kickboxers will make the jump.

At the moment Boxing is still a bigger sport as it's been around a lot longer than UFC. Conor won't make the money Floyd made for example. However in my personal opinion UFC is far more enjoyable to watch than Boxing. Anyone who calls UFC amateur has no idea what they're talking about. There is no more honourable and professional sport than MMA. I'm talking the pure side of the sport that embraces the Bushido spirit. There are always going to be people who are bad for a sport and UFC or MMA in general is no different. Yet overall there is a lot of great respect shown in MMA just as there is in Boxing.

Everything about UFC is professional. It may not be as technical in certain areas but that's because it's Mixed Martial Arts.

 

[teok]

Conor made the front page of the bbc. I did a bit of a double take. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

A few years back they didn't even cover MMA. Things are changing.

 

[Hoops]

Conor made the front page of the bbc. I did a bit of a double take. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

A few years back they didn't even cover MMA. Things are changing.

Theyve had the build up all week on mail website. They are getting really into it. Rousey, Vanzant fight. Then this. Im enjoying the coverage.

 

[mil1lion]

Conor made the front page of the bbc. I did a bit of a double take. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

A few years back they didn't even cover MMA. Things are changing.

I have Yahoo UK as my homepage because I have a Yahoo email address. I never used to see UFC mentioned on there. However this year I have been seeing it mentioned in the headlines for the first time. It started with Rousey and now McGregor has brought huge appeal to the sport. People can say what they like about his trash talking but there is no doubt that he is helping the sport grow. I am sure nobody is happier with the fight than Dana White. He knows that McGregor is going to make a lot of money by selling his fights. More fighters need to do that t build up fights. It's why Dana doesn't book Edgar in more Title fights for example.

 

[teok]

Holy shit conor called it perfectly. Watch this:


https://twitter.com/GTEazyx/status/676031381382787072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Mullers]

Domestic heavyweight boxing alone has much to make us all excited right now

AJ, fury and haye could all be involved in big fights in the future

With the likes of whyte, chisora and even price making for a strong domestic scene (if the rest were competing internationally)

The problem is - in boxing we don't know how many it any of those fights we will ever see where as in the ufc you'd likely see all the relevant ones

I'm hoping that with so many fighters now signed to match room or dealing with them indirectly it man's we will see the fights we want to see like we did for th3 most part during the benn watson eubank era *domestically anyway

Time will tell

I am excited about AJ and Whyte but Fury and Haye not really. Fair play to Fury beating Wlad but he does not impress me at all. Every time I see him he's carrying loads of timber, Lewis in his prime would have blasted him out of there.
The fight with Wlad was one of the dullest I've ever seen, I was dozing off watching the highlights. Haye is all mouth and trousers and not much heart. heavyweight scene is still very weak.

 

[Shea]

I am excited about AJ and Whyte but Fury and Haye not really. Fair play to Fury beating Wlad but he does not impress me at all. Every time I see him he's carrying loads of timber, Lewis in his prime would have blasted him out of there.
The fight with Wlad was one of the dullest I've ever seen, I was dozing off watching the highlights. Haye is all mouth and trousers and not much heart. heavyweight scene is still very weak.

Depends what you mean by excited

I'm personally excited by virtue of the fact that there are so many known names in the heavyweight scene, therefore potential domestic match ups that will make me want to watch them

Even Price is a name to me, I'd be a lot more excited to watch AJ fight him because I've followed his career, same for Chisora as it was the same for Dillion Whyte (I watched Whyte in Kickboxing and saw him fight on the mma undercard for a bill which included Jimmi Manuwa and James McSweeny - so he's a recognisiable figure to me)

When I say exciting - I'm not claiming they all have the potential to be the new Lennox, far from it. I just personally like boxing matches where I know both parties involved rather than watching one fighter I know beat up some no body I've never heard of (Gary Cornish for example)

I'd be interested to see pretty much any combination fight from Aj, Fury, Haye, Chisora, Price etc

Compared to the scene in the last decade or so - Williams, Audley, Skelton, Sprott
Williams, Francis, Pele Reid
with the likes of McDermot, Sexton and scott welch knocking around

Fair enough if the potential fights on the domestic heavyweight scene do not interest you - personally I'm excited to see the various match ups though and I hope a lot of them get made

 

[Hoops]

So I watched a bit of Conor McGregor to see his personality. Oh My God!!! He destroyed Aldo in the lead up to this fight. This fight was won weeks ago before they even set foot into the ring. McGregor talked himself to the win, just like Fury did with Klit

 

[Shea]

http://www.bjpenn.com/mmanews/conor...k-rolled-estimated-at-1-3-million-per-second/

 

[fridgemagnet]

I've always preferred MMA over boxing because it's so diverse, so many ways for a fight to finish from 5 second knockouts to 5 round wars (Lawler vs MacDonald UFC 189 was one of the best but before that Mark Hunt vs Bigfoot Silva in 2013) and that's just two fights off top of my head.

I get that people don't always understand what's going on when the fight goes to the ground but if they watched a few BJJ videos on youtube and gave themselves a bit of knowledge then it opens up a whole new thing to enjoy and appreciate why these guys and girls are so good.
Gunner vs Maia to a novice looks like a WTF these guys shouldn't even be matched up together yet Gunner is seriously good but Maia is another level beyond.

Conor has a lot of haters because they don't see that he gets it he understands how prizefighting works and he knows his own value, he talks tonne of smack to sell the fight, backs it up, gets paid. Yet he is one of the most interesting martial artists to listen to. (go find his post fight press conference as an example) as i understand it he has no real secondary level education yet he articulates himself better than anyone i can think of since GSP, love him/hate him/be indifferent to him but he's very good for MMA, the BBC were still happy to blast out the MMA is human cockfighting line earlier this year. I also swear that this has been the first UFC card on BTSports where the "Caution, contains violent scenes" hasn't been shown on any ad break.

The UFC has grown a monster and if something isn't right he's not going to sit there and take it, there are wrongs that need righting in the UFC's model they have Jon Jones who is pissed off with them, is in a position where he could sue them and the NAC so the UFC aren't going to want to rock the boat with him and now there's McGregor with options galore.

I may be alone but i could see a situation where Conor is holding both FW & LW belts and Jones is holding LHW & HW at the same time and that would be huge leverage to have over UFC

Also Conor has had 7 fights in the UFC his first was April 2013 he had another fight in the August then he didn't fight for a year due to tearing his ACL, he's definitely been "fast tracked" (i don't like the phrase protected as there are no easy fights) by the UFC but what he has done in such a short time is pretty ridiculous.

Just as an example of what Conor brings to his opponents, when Aldo pulled out of 189 Mendes took the fight on 2 weeks notice and made nearly 500k (part of that i'm sure was a handshake for taking a short notice fight)
Mendes fought Edgar Saturday night and made a disclosed 82k (quite a pay cut)
Before Aldo fought Conor he made around 280k show and 280k win against Mendes against Conor he made a disclosed 400k on a loss. (that's before PPV share and Aldo rarely drew large PPV numbers prior to McGregor)

The disclosed pay for MMA/UFC fighters has always appeared very low especially compared to boxings model but spread of pay is much better than in boxing where the main and co-main get the big money the prelim fighters get buttons, whereas a typical low level prelim UFC fighter will be on around 10k show plus 10k win plus every fighter on the card starts the night with the chance of getting a 50k performance bonus they only hand out 4 per card and typically they'll go to a main card guy but they all start with a shot at one.

 

[mil1lion]

Conor comes across as a true student of the game though. He isn't just running his mouth, he's very intelligent and calculated. When you watch him in interviews where he isn't in front of the press promoting a fight he breaks down the fight very well. His trash talk in the cage is similar to what Diaz does but where Diaz hates the spotlight and the interviews Conor thrives. Nick Diaz will say things like "I just wanna fight, whatever" where Conor will speak technically about how he will beat his opponent.

I have found however that since the Mendes fight he has not been too over the top. He did run down everyone at a presser after that fight but he seems to have settled more. On TUF he wasn't over the top. There was a few digs back and forth with Faber but a lot of it seemed like a bit of banter. The only time it seemed to be personal was when he talked about TJ. Although I think Faber knows deep down that what Conor was saying about TJ needed to be said. There was never too much heat between the 2 of them.

I would even say the face-off with Jose was very much unheated. There was tension in the eyes of both fighters but even then Conor just shook his hands and said "lets do it this time". The trash talk was nowhere near what it was earlier in the year. I think Conor has been a lot more respectful of late and even a bit more humble. He got a bit excited after the win (understandably) where he flipped the middle finger (I think to the Brazilian crowd) after he signalled rolling the money. Yet after the fight he spoke well of Jose.

In the interview after the fight and the post conference he showed respect for Jose. He even said that it wasn't nice to see a great champion go out like that. When asked about facing Frankie Edgar he said he was a fan of Frankie but it would be a bad night for him. I think he's maturing as a fighter now that he is the Champion. He's very confident and will be very vocal about that. Yet I think he is being less disrespectful to his fellow fighters. I think with a cleaned up attitude without losing the charisma and confidence Conor can do for MMA what Ali did for Boxing.

 

[Mullers]

This is very impressive.