Oh how I fucking love SC and our fans after a defeat!
Where was all this talk after the palace game?
Oh how I fucking love SC and our fans after a defeat!
Definitely. I’ve said a hundred times I want him to stay and win us a few pots. But what if he can’t turn it around? What if the players have stopped listening? What if they’ve lost respect for him so aren’t doing what he asks? What if the reason players aren’t being picked or aren’t signing new contracts are because they’ve fallen out with him? What if our star striker suddenly isn’t running himself into the ground as much as he used to, not because of injuries, but because he doesn’t have the motivation to anymore?
What do we do? What do chairman usually do, change the players or change the manager?
It’s all hypothetical of course.
Where was all this talk after the palace game?
Where was all this talk after the palace game?
The conversation is about how long we’ve been playing poorly for. That’s just this year. Performances have been down longer than that. Give me examples of excellent league performances over the last 12 months and I doubt you’ll come up with more than 7 or 8. At a push.
What Mourinho does when he goes is to leave a squad of extremely expensive and talented players who are utterly sick of him, and desperate to play for anybody else.
We all understand the conditions that affected the squad last season. The problem is that there is no perceptible difference after a full preseason this season. We’re still playing with no energy, control or belief.we haven't played well these last 12 months, but those results still mean nothing now. Just seems to be very few people that understand what helped towards that though. No preseason, No rest for the main bodies of the squad, injuries to all our top players, Son playing in 2 Asia comps, players playing with injuries, no signings, uncertainty with the stadium, and uncertainty with the manager. All FACTS, not excuses.
all the above affected the supporters, so why wouldn't it affect the players especially those that had to play carrying knocks. to add the info that Trix has passed on, the players were physically and mentally shattered, but hardly anyone in this forum thinks of things like that.
I will be totally honest and swear on my family's life, and I had 2 friends call me an unpatriotic bastard for it. I wanted England to fail in the World Cup, I wanted Belgium too, but with them being in the same group with 2 weak teams my hope was 1st KO. that wouldn't have helped as players that went out in the 1st KO round flew to America to play the ICC.
I think we as a fan-base should be absolutely ashamed of ourselves for how we have acted in recent weeks, we are not a mega club and yet we have the entitlement of one at the moment despite the fact we have punched well above our weight in recent seasons. We always complain about a lack of loyalty in football yet the lack of loyalty shown to the man who has sent us to our highest heights in the modern era is staggering.
It's not going well, that's a given but if there's one man who has credit in the bank it's Mauricio Pochettino. Yet the first sign of trouble and we're quick to turn our backs on him.
I think some perspective is in order because this fan-base seems to have collectively lost it's memory. Firstly let's talk about that away record. First of all people who are using that stat to beat a stick with us really need some perspective. Our first 3 away games this season were:
City - Draw
Arsenal - Draw
Leicester - Loss
Now we were robbed, point blank robbed vs Leicester that was 2-0 done and dusted, the VAR decision gave them a huge momentum shift and admittedly we could do better but we were robbed, there's no doubt about it but they are 3 really difficult away games and two of them if you were looking at the fixtures start of season, you'd say the first 2 were decent results, this shitty away run will end as soon as we face brighton.
So I know people will then point to 'we haven't won since January away' Well this is where I feel like people have suffered memory loss because 99.9% of us in here were saying that with the world cup stealing 9 of our players until the very end, coupled with a lack of reinforcements that we were going to be screwed. So why are you all fucking so shocked that we were screwed? How have you all forgotten that? That's before we even discuss the injury list but we managed to barely hang onto 4th albeit with a bit of good fortune. However during that run Poch used our resources which were extremely stretched at best and put everything we had into that Champions League run. He did the absolutely best with what we had to deliver something nothing any of us have ever experienced and that's been cosigned to the past.
The other bit of short term memory loss I don't understand is, the vast majority of us were saying that we will suffer the effects of the 2018 summer window down the line when we have too do a massive overhaul to make up for the lack of movement in that window. We all knew that there would be problems with the lack of signings yet that's been seemingly forgotten also. This situation we have now with stagnation was expected and yet we're all still somehow shocked, it's mind-boggling to me. We are suffering the repercussions of that window. We have players who can't seem to get their moves away that they wanted, in Rose, Eriksen, Aurier, Alder. We also can't shift some players we want to shift with the likes of Wanyama. Some of them are making the most of it, others are stinking the joint out but Poch is doing the best he can with what he has. Yes he has made selection mistakes, there's no doubt about that but is that really justification to want him out after everything he's done, or after we failed to deliver the signings for him, is it only right that we allow him to see through this difficult period and try and put it right.
I know also that people will say well Poch said no to the players offered to him, well are you surprised? Because we had a squad which was on the cusp of doing big things but let me remind you what the bench was during that semi final vs Chelsea in the F.A cup:
Those were the players he was offered in order to elevate us to another level. He somehow has got a tune out of Sissoko by some minor miracle but are you really that shocked that Poch wasn't willing to accept the shit being offered his way given the history of the players he had to accept before?
- 2 Walker
- 9 Janssen
- 14 Nkoudou
- 17 Sissoko
- 27 Wimmer
- 30 López
- 33 Davies
We have tried this summer to reinvigorate the squad, in my opinion not enough but we have signed 3 players in Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele. One hasn't played a single minute, one played about 50 minutes over 3 games and got injured and one has just returned from injury. Yet we as a fan-base have decided already that Poch has failed in the latest transition before the transition has even begun. Again how the fuck does this man not have enough credit to see us through.
We're also talking about a current premiership climate when we have arguably two of the best ever prem teams in our way, with another 3 teams in the top6 with us with far more resources trying to win titles. Poch has got us competing with clubs of ridiculous stature and with his ability we are becoming a financial juggernaut, we wouldn't have been able to refinance the stadium the way we have without what Poch has done with such little resource on the pitch. He deserves credit for making us such an appealing club and when Levy lands an astounding stadium naming rights deal remember it was Poch struggling on with little which put the worlds eyes on us with what he's achieved on the pitch.
Yes I'm not thrilled that we are facing another transition, I'm under no illusion that next summer will be another transition. Yes I'm desperate for us to win things but right now I think this fan-base is suffering from entitlement and wants microwaveable results. To be expected in this current society of instant gratification and no shock to see people throwing Jose name into the ring as he is the ultimate at microwaveable results. I think we'd be throwing away our long term aspirations. I see him as our fergy, it's a new era of course but Fergy struggled until his 6th or so season before the good times came. He didn't have to face oil money and a new stadium build either.
I think we'd also do well to remember all the things we were saying about why Poch should stick with us, why real ambition would be to win something with Spurs rather than go to United or Madrid where it's expected, where we were asking for loyalty. The shoe's on the other foot now and I think as a fan-base we need to be better, accept that there is difficult times ahead but if we can get through it with Poch at the helm and overhaul the squad properly It will mean so much more than quickly bringing in a name and beginning a period where we chuck manager after manager in for short term gain.
We're showing a real lack of loyalty and I think we need to be grateful for what we have and get behind him through this rocky period.
I think we as a fan-base should be absolutely ashamed of ourselves for how we have acted in recent weeks, we are not a mega club and yet we have the entitlement of one at the moment despite the fact we have punched well above our weight in recent seasons. We always complain about a lack of loyalty in football yet the lack of loyalty shown to the man who has sent us to our highest heights in the modern era is staggering.
It's not going well, that's a given but if there's one man who has credit in the bank it's Mauricio Pochettino. Yet the first sign of trouble and we're quick to turn our backs on him.
I think some perspective is in order because this fan-base seems to have collectively lost it's memory. Firstly let's talk about that away record. First of all people who are using that stat to beat a stick with us really need some perspective. Our first 3 away games this season were:
City - Draw
Arsenal - Draw
Leicester - Loss
Now we were robbed, point blank robbed vs Leicester that was 2-0 done and dusted, the VAR decision gave them a huge momentum shift and admittedly we could do better but we were robbed, there's no doubt about it but they are 3 really difficult away games and two of them if you were looking at the fixtures start of season, you'd say the first 2 were decent results, this shitty away run will end as soon as we face brighton.
So I know people will then point to 'we haven't won since January away' Well this is where I feel like people have suffered memory loss because 99.9% of us in here were saying that with the world cup stealing 9 of our players until the very end, coupled with a lack of reinforcements that we were going to be screwed. So why are you all fucking so shocked that we were screwed? How have you all forgotten that? That's before we even discuss the injury list but we managed to barely hang onto 4th albeit with a bit of good fortune. However during that run Poch used our resources which were extremely stretched at best and put everything we had into that Champions League run. He did the absolutely best with what we had to deliver something nothing any of us have ever experienced and that's been cosigned to the past.
The other bit of short term memory loss I don't understand is, the vast majority of us were saying that we will suffer the effects of the 2018 summer window down the line when we have too do a massive overhaul to make up for the lack of movement in that window. We all knew that there would be problems with the lack of signings yet that's been seemingly forgotten also. This situation we have now with stagnation was expected and yet we're all still somehow shocked, it's mind-boggling to me. We are suffering the repercussions of that window. We have players who can't seem to get their moves away that they wanted, in Rose, Eriksen, Aurier, Alder. We also can't shift some players we want to shift with the likes of Wanyama. Some of them are making the most of it, others are stinking the joint out but Poch is doing the best he can with what he has. Yes he has made selection mistakes, there's no doubt about that but is that really justification to want him out after everything he's done, or after we failed to deliver the signings for him, is it only right that we allow him to see through this difficult period and try and put it right.
I know also that people will say well Poch said no to the players offered to him, well are you surprised? Because we had a squad which was on the cusp of doing big things but let me remind you what the bench was during that semi final vs Chelsea in the F.A cup:
Those were the players he was offered in order to elevate us to another level. He somehow has got a tune out of Sissoko by some minor miracle but are you really that shocked that Poch wasn't willing to accept the shit being offered his way given the history of the players he had to accept before?
- 2 Walker
- 9 Janssen
- 14 Nkoudou
- 17 Sissoko
- 27 Wimmer
- 30 López
- 33 Davies
We have tried this summer to reinvigorate the squad, in my opinion not enough but we have signed 3 players in Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele. One hasn't played a single minute, one played about 50 minutes over 3 games and got injured and one has just returned from injury. Yet we as a fan-base have decided already that Poch has failed in the latest transition before the transition has even begun. Again how the fuck does this man not have enough credit to see us through.
We're also talking about a current premiership climate when we have arguably two of the best ever prem teams in our way, with another 3 teams in the top6 with us with far more resources trying to win titles. Poch has got us competing with clubs of ridiculous stature and with his ability we are becoming a financial juggernaut, we wouldn't have been able to refinance the stadium the way we have without what Poch has done with such little resource on the pitch. He deserves credit for making us such an appealing club and when Levy lands an astounding stadium naming rights deal remember it was Poch struggling on with little which put the worlds eyes on us with what he's achieved on the pitch.
Yes I'm not thrilled that we are facing another transition, I'm under no illusion that next summer will be another transition. Yes I'm desperate for us to win things but right now I think this fan-base is suffering from entitlement and wants microwaveable results. To be expected in this current society of instant gratification and no shock to see people throwing Jose name into the ring as he is the ultimate at microwaveable results. I think we'd be throwing away our long term aspirations. I see him as our fergy, it's a new era of course but Fergy struggled until his 6th or so season before the good times came. He didn't have to face oil money and a new stadium build either.
I think we'd also do well to remember all the things we were saying about why Poch should stick with us, why real ambition would be to win something with Spurs rather than go to United or Madrid where it's expected, where we were asking for loyalty. The shoe's on the other foot now and I think as a fan-base we need to be better, accept that there is difficult times ahead but if we can get through it with Poch at the helm and overhaul the squad properly It will mean so much more than quickly bringing in a name and beginning a period where we chuck manager after manager in for short term gain.
We're showing a real lack of loyalty and I think we need to be grateful for what we have and get behind him through this rocky period.
I actually think the real question is does Poch really want to be here for the foreseeable?
I don't think he does and that's the root of the problem, and we've now a manager and group of players not all pulling in the same direction.
If this was just a bad extended run, even if it's running for sometime, if Poch was saying all the right things and looked really committed to the cause you'd say he had earned the right for us all to be patient.
But again, does he really want to be here long term, I'm not sure at all.
And if that's the case what's the point of affording time, because nothing will really change significantly, just going through the same old motions.
No.
He doesn't know his best 11.
It's a difficult one. With the current crop of senior pros (Lloris, Rose, Aurier, Toby, Wanyama, Verts, Dier, Eriksen etc.) i'd agree but if he was allowed to recycle the squad and rejuvenate it with youth, especially young British players then I could see it working. I just can't see Levy allowing him to do that though.Howe cannot take us higher than Poch has. The senior players need someone they respect. Someone who has a winning pedigree.
It's a difficult one. With the current crop of senior pros (Lloris, Rose, Aurier, Toby, Wanyama, Verts, Dier, Eriksen etc.) i'd agree but if he was allowed to recycle the squad and rejuvenate it with youth, especially young British players then I could see it working. I just can't see Levy allowing him to do that though.
The other solution is to bring in a bigger name who would likely pick up the senior players (Allegri, Ancelotti) but that could be to our long term detriment.
I think if Poch were to be sacked today then my choice would be Tuchel who offers a nice mix between someone like Howe and Allegri or Ancelotti. I don't think he'd be gettable mid way through a season.
In any case, bar serious danger of relegation, Pochettino should not be sacked mid way through a season if our first choice candidate has not already been lined up or is not a free agent.
It depends how you look at it really. I just see you making a shit load of excuses. The WC hangover affected us all of last season? Oh please.
We are up against a Chelsea side with Tammy Abraham upfront and Mount as their Hazard replacement. Arsenal who have a shit defence and midfield and united who are bang average with an average coach too.
We should be much closer to city and Liverpool than we are to those aforementioned other three teams.
If you can’t see the regression in the team since the beginning of last season, I don’t know what to say to you. You can list as many excuses as you want but why is it that Rose is playing so poorly? He’s an experienced pro. Why does our defence look so open when we have two experienced international CBs? Why can’t Poch get the balance right in midfield and why is our attacking player so slow?
I think there are other managers out there who could get much more out of this current group of players and that is the bottom line.
We all understand the conditions that affected the squad last season. The problem is that there is no perceptible difference after a full preseason this season. We’re still playing with no energy, control or belief.