Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[Romulus]

Said it before and I know you shouldn’t read to much into but considering we have an England age group captain at CB and an England GK, it’s been very very poor defensively this season.

who's the England captain?

 

[Romulus]

let me guess, the U16s won?

have they even lost a game this season

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Nile John has NOT made the bench for Charlton v Wimbledon

 

[Delboy75]

who's the England captain?

Dorrington

 

[chrisd2k]

Nile John has NOT made the bench for Charlton v Wimbledon

Hmmm. Let's hope he has a niggle as that's two now isn't it?

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Reo Griffiths scores on his debut for Doncaster away to Sunderland. Sounded a decent goal. According to radio commentator.

 

[IGSpur]

i don't really agree with a lot of that Edwards (he was there when I spend a few years watching the youth team every week) he wasn't ready at the time talented yes but he struggled to get involved in games to often a peripheral figure with an odd moment of skill. Mcdermott and other coaches spent ages working on him you would hear 'Marcus work' every week during games and that was reflected in his output it wasn't enough. He may have progressed as a player, the penny may have dropped but how long do you give a boy before the next big thing turns up?

You have to sign players Clarke looked very good at Leeds and has disappointed but that is the reality for the youngsters at big clubs there will always be signings to compete with. Youngsters don't have to be just good they have to be budding internationals and even then he might not work out CCV Townsend Livermore all internationals and deemed not good enough - Cameron without having a chance really

Josh everyone at Tottenham thought he was the heir apparent, the man who would eventually replace Dembele he had a similar skillset.. The problem for Josh is that he has never imposed himself on games in the first team he had chances and alright some of them weren't in his preferred position but football is about having the opportunity and taking it he just never did. Sadly even at Fulham he is still struggling to cement a permanent role in the team.

There will always be boys who are the next sexy option its exciting for us all to sit there and contemplate who might be great and I think if you watch the youth team you get attached to players and perhaps think that they are better than they are - the kids I was lucky enough to watch for a few years Winks is the last man standing but I think KWP would be ideal for us now

That's fair and I obviously disagree and have a different stance to you. I commented plenty of times during games that he was working hard and tracking back and that him looking lazy I felt was an exaggeration. Sure there were times where you might want him to do more, but he was still the standout player in that group, caused the most problems and most people would leave games talking about it. I think people had it in for him, and made everything personal rather than about performances, like when he was critcised for having his shirt untucked in a team photo, or not smiling in pictures. He barely smiles now.

Outside of taking care of them in the academy like their learning and helping them to develop into adults, once they are good enough all I care about is the club. I don't get why we have to make them jump through extra hoops.. You bring through your most talented players and give them chances, have them prove and evidence to the world that this player is good enough for a certain level and then if he continues to act up you sell him and make your money. Hiding your most talented player away because he doesn't run around as much a Georgiou is such a dumb idea,. I'm sure experienced player will forgive that an 18/19 year old isn't a refined role model. Players like Georgiou, Lesniak and Walkes were never going to be as good as Edwards and therefore unlikely they'd ever make it with us or benefit us. You're just wasting time and our own resources. You're not proving anything as a club other than your stubbornness, especially when you have first teamers at the time criticised for being lazy and not pulling their weight. Players like Grealish (drink driving and more), Elliot(social media) and Foden(England duty) have behaved so much worse than Edwards, who was accused of being late for training but he never shook this troublemaker 'doesn't care' persona. And it was all a joke anyway as KWP was said to be exemplary in his behaviour and still didn't work out so it was all nonsense anyway. Haven't heard a single bad report since his time in Netherlands or Portugal. He had a period of being late for Norwich which was enough for people to decide he wasn't committed or had the mentality to be a professional. He's three months older than Tanganga. No patience or faith shown, while we had N'Jie and N'koudou ahead of him.

Also I never said you shouldn't sign players but it's stupid signing them in a position where we have one of the biggest talents in the country. Jack Clarke wasn't even getting selected for his England age group, and I don't want to hear it's because he was in the Championship as Harper, Gibbs-White, the Sessegnons, Wilson, Walker, Dotila and I know there were a good 5 or 6 others were in and around the squad. He was as I said many times, a good youngster playing well for a Champsionship club getting exposure and skewing people's views. The same way people ended up believing Sessegnon was a better winger than Sancho and Foden, when anyone who had watched them could see it was not true. In fact he would've been the 'next sexy option' as we discarded one of the most talented players we've produced for a younger player on a good bit of form. And this is my issue, that we always think the grass is greener and set a higher standard rather than just investing in what we've produced and trusting our good work. There is zero patience or faith in this game. Like you mention KWP but we signed multiple right backs(including one with a 'bad attitude) for a player, who everyone had enough of as he slipped against Barca and was 'too light weight' to ever make it though he is still the same physique as before. Same with CCV , I doubt he'll ever become as world class CB, but the amount he was slagged off and became some joke was embarrassing and now people are watching him for Celtic and impressed. It's happening with Tanganga too. People talk about his age and use it against him not forgetting that his relative lack of experience has nothing to do with him and he is only 2 years into professional football, trying to iron out the mistakes and find the consistency he didn't get when he was younger and has still put in impressive performances. But people would rather discard him because they want the latest shiny toy. Wanting an academy player who has performed well over many years to be given a chance or time is the opposite to wanting something new.

Re: Josh. We've gone over. My point was the difference between him and Ndombele's career path, when everyone was slagging Onomah off for being lazy and not imposing himself, while claiming Ndombele was better than anything we ever produced in the academy, and then being outlasted by Winks and then overtaken by Skipp. Again my point is trust in what we produce. The PL clearly struggles to bring through a certain type of CM hence my belief that Ndombele would not have made it here.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

That's fair and I obviously disagree and have a different stance to you. I commented plenty of times during games that he was working hard and tracking back and that him looking lazy I felt was an exaggeration. Sure there were times where you might want him to do more, but he was still the standout player in that group, caused the most problems and most people would leave games talking about it. I think people had it in for him, and made everything personal rather than about performances, like when he was critcised for having his shirt untucked in a team photo, or not smiling in pictures. He barely smiles now.

Outside of taking care of them in the academy like their learning and helping them to develop into adults, once they are good enough all I care about is the club. I don't get why we have to make them jump through extra hoops.. You bring through your most talented players and give them chances, have them prove and evidence to the world that this player is good enough for a certain level and then if he continues to act up you sell him and make your money. Hiding your most talented player away because he doesn't run around as much a Georgiou is such a dumb idea,. I'm sure experienced player will forgive that an 18/19 year old isn't a refined role model. Players like Georgiou, Lesniak and Walkes were never going to be as good as Edwards and therefore unlikely they'd ever make it with us or benefit us. You're just wasting time and our own resources. You're not proving anything as a club other than your stubbornness, especially when you have first teamers at the time criticised for being lazy and not pulling their weight. Players like Grealish (drink driving and more), Elliot(social media) and Foden(England duty) have behaved so much worse than Edwards, who was accused of being late for training but he never shook this troublemaker 'doesn't care' persona. And it was all a joke anyway as KWP was said to be exemplary in his behaviour and still didn't work out so it was all nonsense anyway. Haven't heard a single bad report since his time in Netherlands or Portugal. He had a period of being late for Norwich which was enough for people to decide he wasn't committed or had the mentality to be a professional. He's three months older than Tanganga. No patience or faith shown, while we had N'Jie and N'koudou ahead of him.

Also I never said you shouldn't sign players but it's stupid signing them in a position where we have one of the biggest talents in the country. Jack Clarke wasn't even getting selected for his England age group, and I don't want to hear it's because he was in the Championship as Harper, Gibbs-White, the Sessegnons, Wilson, Walker, Dotila and I know there were a good 5 or 6 others were in and around the squad. He was as I said many times, a good youngster playing well for a Champsionship club getting exposure and skewing people's views. The same way people ended up believing Sessegnon was a better winger than Sancho and Foden, when anyone who had watched them could see it was not true. In fact he would've been the 'next sexy option' as we discarded one of the most talented players we've produced for a younger player on a good bit of form. And this is my issue, that we always think the grass is greener and set a higher standard rather than just investing in what we've produced and trusting our good work. There is zero patience or faith in this game. Like you mention KWP but we signed multiple right backs(including one with a 'bad attitude) for a player, who everyone had enough of as he slipped against Barca and was 'too light weight' to ever make it though he is still the same physique as before. Same with CCV , I doubt he'll ever become as world class CB, but the amount he was slagged off and became some joke was embarrassing and now people are watching him for Celtic and impressed. It's happening with Tanganga too. People talk about his age and use it against him not forgetting that his relative lack of experience has nothing to do with him and he is only 2 years into professional football, trying to iron out the mistakes and find the consistency he didn't get when he was younger and has still put in impressive performances. But people would rather discard him because they want the latest shiny toy. Wanting an academy player who has performed well over many years to be given a chance or time is the opposite to wanting something new.

Re: Josh. We've gone over. My point was the difference between him and Ndombele's career path, when everyone was slagging Onomah off for being lazy and not imposing himself, while claiming Ndombele was better than anything we ever produced in the academy, and then being outlasted by Winks and then overtaken by Skipp. Again my point is trust in what we produce. The PL clearly struggles to bring through a certain type of CM hence my belief that Ndombele would not have made it here.

Marcus always suffered for me because as a young boy he didn't have a position - he really was the sort of the player you need to build a side around . For me he always struggled to get involved in games but its spillt milk really sadly he never had the opportunity and it would be nice to see him develop and fulfill his potential I hope he does.

I don't think the club asks the boys to jump through hoops really that's more the supporters who tend to want instant success and youngsters coming through need time - the trouble is football doesn't give you that time it is about grasping opportunity in a really tough spotlight. Sadly mistakes are over analysed and judgement made almost immediately and in this strange world of football supporters tend to be more forgiving for 30 million pound player who is having a tough time than a youngster who comes in and maybe doesn't hit the ground running.

I do agree that you have to give players a path and the opportunity, but if your a manager who is under pressure for results its a big ask to go for the kid. I often see on here people talking about loans for the boys and why can't we find them its just not that straight forward you have a talented youngster and you want to send them out on loan the club is going to has to be the right fit and there are so many variables involved. Otherwise the boy comes back and the loan has been detrimental - look at Bowden struggled at Oldham bottom two in division 3 has that loan helped him. Supporters immediately look and make a judgement the boy suffers and that could destroy him. Like most transfers loans mainly happen because sides are struggling

 

[Blake Griffin]

Marcus always suffered for me because as a young boy he didn't have a position - he really was the sort of the player you need to build a side around . For me he always struggled to get involved in games but its spillt milk really sadly he never had the opportunity and it would be nice to see him develop and fulfill his potential I hope he does.

I don't think the club asks the boys to jump through hoops really that's more the supporters who tend to want instant success and youngsters coming through need time - the trouble is football doesn't give you that time it is about grasping opportunity in a really tough spotlight. Sadly mistakes are over analysed and judgement made almost immediately and in this strange world of football supporters tend to be more forgiving for 30 million pound player who is having a tough time than a youngster who comes in and maybe doesn't hit the ground running.

I do agree that you have to give players a path and the opportunity, but if your a manager who is under pressure for results its a big ask to go for the kid. I often see on here people talking about loans for the boys and why can't we find them its just not that straight forward you have a talented youngster and you want to send them out on loan the club is going to has to be the right fit and there are so many variables involved. Otherwise the boy comes back and the loan has been detrimental - look at Bowden struggled at Oldham bottom two in division 3 has that loan helped him. Supporters immediately look and make a judgement the boy suffers and that could destroy him. Like most transfers loans mainly happen because sides are struggling

did bowden struggle at oldham? from most reports he was actually one of their few positives and was playing often. as far as they were concerned he was recalled with the expectation that he'd be moving up a league. overall i don't think that loan has been detrimental to him, he's probably learnt a lot.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

did bowden struggle at oldham? from most reports he was actually one of their few positives and was playing often. as far as they were concerned he was recalled with the expectation that he'd be moving up a league. overall i don't think that loan has been detrimental to him, he's probably learnt a lot.

he may well have learned a lot but the trouble with loans with lots of supporters its all very black and white - he has gone on loan to a struggling side but by association his reputation suffers in the eyes of many

 

[IGSpur]

Marcus always suffered for me because as a young boy he didn't have a position - he really was the sort of the player you need to build a side around . For me he always struggled to get involved in games but its spillt milk really sadly he never had the opportunity and it would be nice to see him develop and fulfill his potential I hope he does.

I don't think the club asks the boys to jump through hoops really that's more the supporters who tend to want instant success and youngsters coming through need time - the trouble is football doesn't give you that time it is about grasping opportunity in a really tough spotlight. Sadly mistakes are over analysed and judgement made almost immediately and in this strange world of football supporters tend to be more forgiving for 30 million pound player who is having a tough time than a youngster who comes in and maybe doesn't hit the ground running.

I do agree that you have to give players a path and the opportunity, but if your a manager who is under pressure for results its a big ask to go for the kid. I often see on here people talking about loans for the boys and why can't we find them its just not that straight forward you have a talented youngster and you want to send them out on loan the club is going to has to be the right fit and there are so many variables involved. Otherwise the boy comes back and the loan has been detrimental - look at Bowden struggled at Oldham bottom two in division 3 has that loan helped him. Supporters immediately look and make a judgement the boy suffers and that could destroy him. Like most transfers loans mainly happen because sides are struggling

Definitely think he had a place on our RW or CAM but as you say spilt milk. Would be good for us and England if he manages to kick on, and show that you can turn your negative press around.

Supporters are 100% impatient but I do think clubs have double standards and expectations of academy players that are hard to achieve. One minute they're setting a narrative that you just need to work hard or harder than a first teamer and it will happen then they're saying, that academy players need to be 8 out of 10s and better than internationals, which is literally something that is impossible to improve without consistent game time. It's especially dumb as a lot of the internationals we sign don't necessarily fulfill their potential for us like Lo Celso, Ndombele and Paulinho before them. 100& managers are under pressure I've said that from day dot.

My point as ever, was being frustarted by the amount of money we've wasted in undoing our own good work, and believing in the hype elsewhere. Where might we be as a club if all the money spent on average signings and money lost from not developing academy players had gone into actual world class top talent when we were on the cusp of something great. And who knows there might even be a great fan connection with a few academy players in there.

 

[Lilywhite Rose]

Just arrived will update on game.

 

[coysjod]

View attachment 105322
Just arrived will update on game.

Thanks! Give us an update on Nya Kirby as well #blastfromthepast

 

[mark87]

1-0 down

 

[Lilywhite Rose]

Goal. Spurs 23s 0-1 Palace.

 

[mark87]

2-0 down

 

[mark87]

2-1. Devine

 

[Lilywhite Rose]

Two goals in a minute. Palace went 2 up with a great free kick. But Dane has just played in Alfie to pull one back.

 

[Anuth]

Nile John starts for Charlton U23

 

[Lilywhite Rose]

J’neil Bennett hits the post. He for once went near post and high rather than his trademark far post and low. Still 1-2. 38 mins gone.