Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[Westmorlandspur]

Not sure what happened to Lavinier loan to Charlton. Was told by a few people that he was set to join them.

Was interest in BLF on loan too before his injury vs Blackburn 23’s which is frustrating.

On Bennett and Bowden I wonder if the fact that they played for Spurs in Europa Confrence qualifier vs Pacos and then out on loan at Crewe and Oldham respectively meant that they could not play for a 3rd club in one season. Is that a rule?

Not sure what happened to Lavinier loan to Charlton. Was told by a few people that he was set to join them.

Was interest in BLF on loan too before his injury vs Blackburn 23’s which is frustrating.

On Bennett and Bowden I wonder if the fact that they played for Spurs in Europa Confrence qualifier vs Pacos and then out on loan at Crewe and Oldham respectively meant that they could not play for a 3rd club in one season. Is that a rule?

Yes cannot play for 3 clubs in one season. That’s why GED Spence from forest couldn’t have played if we signed him.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I think they just want to keep some numbers in case of an emergency. We literally have 1 spare outfield player on a match day. So 5 or 6 missing which this season isn’t inconceivable at all and you’re looking at Scarlett White Paskotsi and then it’s anybody’s guess probably Devine Bowden Bennett.

Everyone was complaining that the youth were not getting a chance. Prob a couple on the bench in most games now. There are 9 on the bench so odds are they won’t get on unless we are 3-0 up.
Comett the hour and all that. Rashford only got a chance because of injuries,

 

[Delboy75]

 

[Montalbano]

Probably a Hitchen target

 

[IGSpur]

It was BBLG but I'll be honest, I had high hopes for the lad too.
I'm still kinda holding onto some of them as he'd still young and clearly has talent, it just depends whether the application is there.

He needs a good loan, even if its just to increase his value.

There were plenty who did though and for me, especially at that time, it showed how academy players were viewed at their clubs compared to signings.

We coached and had one of the most talented youngsters in world football, and opted to buy a decent youngster getting chances at a Championship club and fans then thought he was a better player. Heck Edwards couldn't even get on the bench over Nkoudou, and Edwards has now been signed by Sporting Lison and will be playing CL football, Clarke has bounced around the EFL and a player who has ended up in the Turkish league. Granted the standard in league ain't that much different, but the fact we wasted fees and wages on two players, who did not come close to Edwards' ability is so foolish to me.

Never been against signing youngsters but signing them in the same position as one of your best every academy players is so dumb. Clarke arguably didn't even end up better than Markanday.

Your post reminded me of an exchange a while ago, the middle and last bit of my post and the immediate reply from coys200 (nothing against him as many had that mindset)

https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/spurs-youth-2019-20.137551/post-6533861

It's funny how it ended up with Winks and Skipp outlasting Ndombele, most probably agreeing that James is better than AWB and how people view Sessegnon. Even the fact that our academy couldn't compare to Chelsea, who I still recognise as better but we have Skipp and Tanganga since joining the squad and then KWP being a PL player

I said previously if Ndombele had come through our academy and Onomah Lyon or wherever there'd be a complete reversal of fortunate, especially when Onomahs' main criticism was his lack of effort or workrate. In France he would've got a chance and looked pretty, gained confidence and improved his ability, whereas Ndombele would've come on at 17/18 for us with less talent than he does now, not run around enough and the conclusion would be he was never good enough.

People have always had such little trust and faith in our players. All they require is some time and chances. Of course there are plenty of players, that I have rated that have never gone onto do anything. I've said loads of times that many won't go onto do much, but not giving the cream of your crop a chance, who all have the potential to be good PL players if trusted is my issues. They rarely get that fair chance, the money we have lost out on as a result is annoying

 

[IGSpur]

TOB and Nya used to get lots of praise as midfield duo in under 18’s a few years ago . Both were in the under 17 World Cup winning team. TOB started most games , Nya on the bench.
TOB cannot get a game for a Stoke and Nya cannot get a game..full stop.
Others on that bench were Emil Smith-Rowe and Connor Gallagher.
Sancho..CHO and Foden in the team.
Shows how players go on different paths. That was a hell of a strong squad when you look at the standard of those five players.
Rhian Brewster ended up at Sheffield Utd.
TJ Eyoma now at Lincoln.

Nya never made it to our u18s. As u16s they, along with Skipp, were a riduclous trio, I've said before because of their skill sets Kirby and TOB definitely stood out more. I guess attacking players naturally do.

England in general have really struggled to bring through CM/CAM or creative CMs in general I still think that's a lack of trust. We've been through the TOB issues and Poch but I defintely noticed a fall off in his performances when Kirby left, though for England he was still excellent. I think he was one of those players that didn't want to be the main guy, which is why he fitted well in England as one of their best players. Kirby has also struggled at Palace where Hodgson managed for ages. But among Englands most talented age groups. 97-00. The only CMs that have come through have been Rice, Gallagher, Skipp and you might want to count Davies. All similar but excellent players bar Davies. The others seemed to fall off or struggle for chances in the PL and I know some suffered injuries. I'm talking the skillful/creative/B2B (at the time) types. McEacharan(00), Slattery (99), O'Riley (00), TOB(00), Kirby(00), Gomes(00), Adeniran(99), Patching(98), Gribbin(98), Onomah(97), Crowley(97), Dozzell(99). For me this suggests an allround in ability to develop this type of players. These are playes who featured in squads that won u20 world cup, u17 euro, u17 world cup and u19 euros.

Re: Brewster I felt he really benefitted of strong age group, but he could tuck when given a sight at goal.

creative ball players/b2bNile John has a low center of gravity and great on the half turn. He needs imo work on his close control but I have high hopes for him. Especially in Conte's system which would suit him greatly. Really hope he has a great time at charlton.

I don't know. I've not seen him in a while, properly, but his close control was definitely one of his strengths back in the day, that allowed him to slalom through players. As you say he has so much in his locker, would love to see how he develops as a CM

 

[IGSpur]

Kirby wanted to slink off to Chelski, not noted for their "pathway". He expected us to let him go for nothing. After everything the club did for him I feel that he behaved poorly. As for Reo, as I said, I was a fan, but he always thought a lot of himself and I think that he left because he thought he was much further long than he actually was. I don't resent him for it as such but I do think that its a fact that he got ahead of himself and if he'd just been a little more level headed he might be a lot farther on than he is.

Tbf in hindsight it looked like Kirby made a good decision to try to go to Chelsea what with them giving academy players chances and getting them good loans. I think it would've worked out so much better if he did but unfortuantely it didn't. Ye leaves a bit of a sour taste but I honestly don't get what academy players do to get their chance. I wouldn't cheer him at Chelsea, but for England's sake I'd want him to do well.

Griffiths banged goals but I never saw him as a realistic first team striker. I felt his form was part squad around him and part purple patch. He understandably felt too raw having just been a RB, to look like a genuine striker but he played incredibly well. He made his move very soon as well and I can't begrudge them. I can see your view with Kirby, but outside of that I never understand why fans revel in an academy player not failing when they leave. They're still from our academy and they're just trying to make it in the game. When you consider the amount of people who say it's unrealistic to come through at a PL club why wouldn't they try to leave and take their chances elsewhere?

 

[neilp]

Tbf in hindsight it looked like Kirby made a good decision to try to go to Chelsea what with them giving academy players chances and getting them good loans. I think it would've worked out so much better if he did but unfortuantely it didn't. Ye leaves a bit of a sour taste but I honestly don't get what academy players do to get their chance. I wouldn't cheer him at Chelsea, but for England's sake I'd want him to do well.

Griffiths banged goals but I never saw him as a realistic first team striker. I felt his form was part squad around him and part purple patch. He understandably felt too raw having just been a RB, to look like a genuine striker but he played incredibly well. He made his move very soon as well and I can't begrudge them. I can see your view with Kirby, but outside of that I never understand why fans revel in an academy player not failing when they leave. They're still from our academy and they're just trying to make it in the game. When you consider the amount of people who say it's unrealistic to come through at a PL club why wouldn't they try to leave and take their chances elsewhere?

I agree and will keep an eye on all the players who have come through our academy and wish them well.

 

[IGSpur]

I agree and will keep an eye on all the players who have come through our academy and wish them well.

It's what works most in our favour when we do try to sign academy players. At least we can point as show proof of good development/outcomes.

So what if they risk leaving, it's our responsibility to bring them through, but we need to get them here in the first place

 

[Spurzinho]

Tbf in hindsight it looked like Kirby made a good decision to try to go to Chelsea what with them giving academy players chances and getting them good loans. I think it would've worked out so much better if he did but unfortuantely it didn't. Ye leaves a bit of a sour taste but I honestly don't get what academy players do to get their chance. I wouldn't cheer him at Chelsea, but for England's sake I'd want him to do well.

Griffiths banged goals but I never saw him as a realistic first team striker. I felt his form was part squad around him and part purple patch. He understandably felt too raw having just been a RB, to look like a genuine striker but he played incredibly well. He made his move very soon as well and I can't begrudge them. I can see your view with Kirby, but outside of that I never understand why fans revel in an academy player not failing when they leave. They're still from our academy and they're just trying to make it in the game. When you consider the amount of people who say it's unrealistic to come through at a PL club why wouldn't they try to leave and take their chances elsewhere?

I agree completely. I have never had a problem with players leaving for chances elsewhere. My issues with Kirby and Griffiths are that I didn't feel like they did it the right way.

 

[Romulus]

I'll always remember watching Edwards in person for the first time against monaco in the Uefa youth league. he had a spell In the second half where he was completely unplayable

 

[IGSpur]

I'll always remember watching Edwards in person for the first time against monaco in the Uefa youth league. he had a spell In the second half where he was completely unplayable

Ye he was an excellent player. Leaves Vitoria with 36 g/a after 96 games. If he can get into Sporting side you'd think those numbers would increase. Always could he was composed and could finish but wa shocked he scored more than assisted but I assume its due to Vitorias strikers not putting away chances

 

[mpickard2087]

Yeah will be interesting to see how Edwards gets on now, he's built a solid footing in the pro game/mens football out in Portugal and now Sporting is a really good stage to be on and we'll see if he can take another step up the ladder.

Still a shame it wasn't to be. If you looked at his highlights reel and this was some up-and-comer from the Portuguese league called like Marcos Eduardo and we were being linked with him, SC would be going giddy at the thought of it and you'd have the whole of the transfer section imploring we got the deal done.

 

[sammyj]

Yeah will be interesting to see how Edwards gets on now, he's built a solid footing in the pro game/mens football out in Portugal and now Sporting is a really good stage to be on and we'll see if he can take another step up the ladder.

Still a shame it wasn't to be. If you looked at his highlights reel and this was some up-and-comer from the Portuguese league called like Marcos Eduardo and we were being linked with him, SC would be going giddy at the thought of it and you'd have the whole of the transfer section imploring we got the deal done.

Still sad about him , brilliant prospect

 

[ralphs bald spot]

There were plenty who did though and for me, especially at that time, it showed how academy players were viewed at their clubs compared to signings.

We coached and had one of the most talented youngsters in world football, and opted to buy a decent youngster getting chances at a Championship club and fans then thought he was a better player. Heck Edwards couldn't even get on the bench over Nkoudou, and Edwards has now been signed by Sporting Lison and will be playing CL football, Clarke has bounced around the EFL and a player who has ended up in the Turkish league. Granted the standard in league ain't that much different, but the fact we wasted fees and wages on two players, who did not come close to Edwards' ability is so foolish to me.

Never been against signing youngsters but signing them in the same position as one of your best every academy players is so dumb. Clarke arguably didn't even end up better than Markanday.

Your post reminded me of an exchange a while ago, the middle and last bit of my post and the immediate reply from coys200 (nothing against him as many had that mindset)

https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/spurs-youth-2019-20.137551/post-6533861

It's funny how it ended up with Winks and Skipp outlasting Ndombele, most probably agreeing that James is better than AWB and how people view Sessegnon. Even the fact that our academy couldn't compare to Chelsea, who I still recognise as better but we have Skipp and Tanganga since joining the squad and then KWP being a PL player

I said previously if Ndombele had come through our academy and Onomah Lyon or wherever there'd be a complete reversal of fortunate, especially when Onomahs' main criticism was his lack of effort or workrate. In France he would've got a chance and looked pretty, gained confidence and improved his ability, whereas Ndombele would've come on at 17/18 for us with less talent than he does now, not run around enough and the conclusion would be he was never good enough.

People have always had such little trust and faith in our players. All they require is some time and chances. Of course there are plenty of players, that I have rated that have never gone onto do anything. I've said loads of times that many won't go onto do much, but not giving the cream of your crop a chance, who all have the potential to be good PL players if trusted is my issues. They rarely get that fair chance, the money we have lost out on as a result is annoying

i don't really agree with a lot of that Edwards (he was there when I spend a few years watching the youth team every week) he wasn't ready at the time talented yes but he struggled to get involved in games to often a peripheral figure with an odd moment of skill. Mcdermott and other coaches spent ages working on him you would hear 'Marcus work' every week during games and that was reflected in his output it wasn't enough. He may have progressed as a player, the penny may have dropped but how long do you give a boy before the next big thing turns up?

You have to sign players Clarke looked very good at Leeds and has disappointed but that is the reality for the youngsters at big clubs there will always be signings to compete with. Youngsters don't have to be just good they have to be budding internationals and even then he might not work out CCV Townsend Livermore all internationals and deemed not good enough - Cameron without having a chance really

Josh everyone at Tottenham thought he was the heir apparent, the man who would eventually replace Dembele he had a similar skillset.. The problem for Josh is that he has never imposed himself on games in the first team he had chances and alright some of them weren't in his preferred position but football is about having the opportunity and taking it he just never did. Sadly even at Fulham he is still struggling to cement a permanent role in the team.

There will always be boys who are the next sexy option its exciting for us all to sit there and contemplate who might be great and I think if you watch the youth team you get attached to players and perhaps think that they are better than they are - the kids I was lucky enough to watch for a few years Winks is the last man standing but I think KWP would be ideal for us now

 

[Spurzinho]

i don't really agree with a lot of that Edwards (he was there when I spend a few years watching the youth team every week) he wasn't ready at the time talented yes but he struggled to get involved in games to often a peripheral figure with an odd moment of skill. Mcdermott and other coaches spent ages working on him you would hear 'Marcus work' every week during games and that was reflected in his output it wasn't enough. He may have progressed as a player, the penny may have dropped but how long do you give a boy before the next big thing turns up?

You have to sign players Clarke looked very good at Leeds and has disappointed but that is the reality for the youngsters at big clubs there will always be signings to compete with. Youngsters don't have to be just good they have to be budding internationals and even then he might not work out CCV Townsend Livermore all internationals and deemed not good enough - Cameron without having a chance really

Josh everyone at Tottenham thought he was the heir apparent, the man who would eventually replace Dembele he had a similar skillset.. The problem for Josh is that he has never imposed himself on games in the first team he had chances and alright some of them weren't in his preferred position but football is about having the opportunity and taking it he just never did. Sadly even at Fulham he is still struggling to cement a permanent role in the team.

There will always be boys who are the next sexy option its exciting for us all to sit there and contemplate who might be great and I think if you watch the youth team you get attached to players and perhaps think that they are better than they are - the kids I was lucky enough to watch for a few years Winks is the last man standing but I think KWP would be ideal for us now

I agree. I was critical of Marcus and got a lot of stick for it but you could see there were problems. The coaches were clearly trying to unlock his talent but he wasn't doing what needed to be done and he wasn't so phenomenally good that you justify him plodding through. Also there is the consideration about the message that it was sending to all the other scholars. As skillful as he is, if he gets chances in the first team that his performances and training don't justify then why should anyone else run and work and do extra training and work on their weaknesses? In terms of being a good professional Kane and Edwards were at different ends of the spectrum. Its not just a question of are you any good at football its about can you do this professionally, as your job, with peoples livelihoods on the line. There are plenty of technically excellent players down in the semi-pro ranks. Why are they there? A combination of things but for a lot of them its that they weren't cut out for the life of a professional footballer. I've known a few. I don't think Portuguese football is any less demanding in terms of tactical discipline than here so it'll be interesting to see how he does. Does he get given a free role and if he does, does he make enough of a contribution to justify that.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Nya never made it to our u18s. As u16s they, along with Skipp, were a riduclous trio, I've said before because of their skill sets Kirby and TOB definitely stood out more. I guess attacking players naturally do.

England in general have really struggled to bring through CM/CAM or creative CMs in general I still think that's a lack of trust. We've been through the TOB issues and Poch but I defintely noticed a fall off in his performances when Kirby left, though for England he was still excellent. I think he was one of those players that didn't want to be the main guy, which is why he fitted well in England as one of their best players. Kirby has also struggled at Palace where Hodgson managed for ages. But among Englands most talented age groups. 97-00. The only CMs that have come through have been Rice, Gallagher, Skipp and you might want to count Davies. All similar but excellent players bar Davies. The others seemed to fall off or struggle for chances in the PL and I know some suffered injuries. I'm talking the skillful/creative/B2B (at the time) types. McEacharan(00), Slattery (99), O'Riley (00), TOB(00), Kirby(00), Gomes(00), Adeniran(99), Patching(98), Gribbin(98), Onomah(97), Crowley(97), Dozzell(99). For me this suggests an allround in ability to develop this type of players. These are playes who featured in squads that won u20 world cup, u17 euro, u17 world cup and u19 euros.

Re: Brewster I felt he really benefitted of strong age group, but he could tuck when given a sight at goal.



I don't know. I've not seen him in a while, properly, but his close control was definitely one of his strengths back in the day, that allowed him to slalom through players. As you say he has so much in his locker, would love to see how he develops as a CM

Kirby definitely played for the under 18’s with TOB . Plenty of reports on here with those 2 in the midfield. It wouldn’t have been the under 16’s. Maybe playing above his age but he certainly played.

 

[Delboy75]

Devine with seniors good to see.

And Yago

 

[EQP]

Speaking of Alfie Devine, him and Yago were training with the 1st team today.

Dejan Kulusevski of Tottenham Hotspur during the Tottenham Hotspur...

Dejan Kulusevski of Tottenham Hotspur during the Tottenham Hotspur training session at Tottenham Hotspur Training Centre on February 03, 2022 in Enfield, England.

www.gettyimages.com

Rodrigo Bentancur of Tottenham Hotspur during the Tottenham Hotspur...

Rodrigo Bentancur of Tottenham Hotspur during the Tottenham Hotspur training session at Tottenham Hotspur Training Centre on February 03, 2022 in Enfield, England.

www.gettyimages.com

 

[Delboy75]

Very good program on Sky sports football at 6pm. The 21 best U21 players in the EFL should be interesting.