Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[Danny1]

A lot of people called Dele lazy once upon a time if I recall. Of course it could be laziness, but there could be an underlying mental issue causing what looks like lack of motivation and laziness

My issue with this is that if we go down this route, we can never ever criticise someone's work performances, just on the off chance that they may or may not have a health issue. If he has, then I feel for him & hope he gets the help needed.

However, we as fans should be allowed to critique his attitude/aptitude as he currently has a lack of both.

 

[mil1lion]

My issue with this is that if we go down this route, we can never ever criticise someone's work performances, just on the off chance that they may or may not have a health issue. If he has, then I feel for him & hope he gets the help needed.

However, we as fans should be allowed to critique his attitude/aptitude as he currently has a lack of both.

Yeah absolutely it's warranted for people to criticise him. I don't think easley is suggesting we can't. It's just an observation to suggest it could be something else going on with him. I think you can be critical of how he's acting but still also ask questions why he is this way.

 

[HildoSpur]

Yeah absolutely it's warranted for people to criticise him. I don't think easley is suggesting we can't. It's just an observation to suggest it could be something else going on with him. I think you can be critical of how he's acting but still also ask questions why he is this way.

That's fair enough however I do struggle a little with the assumption that all lazy people must be possibly having some sort of mental health crisis. That may be true for some of them however let's be honest, there are a lot of lazy bastards around as well. I've worked with a ton of them!

 

[Danny1]

Yeah absolutely it's warranted for people to criticise him. I don't think easley is suggesting we can't. It's just an observation to suggest it could be something else going on with him. I think you can be critical of how he's acting but still also ask questions why he is this way.

& thats fair enough, but it always crops up. As soon as we show a level of disdain against him, the mental health issue is raised almost immediately.
Its actually way more likely he is just a lazy chancer who is unwilling to put the hard work in to become successful with the talent he possesses.

Anyway, one thing I think we all agree on is that we need to get him off our books very quickly.

 

[greaves]

& thats fair enough, but it always crops up. As soon as we show a level of disdain against him, the mental health issue is raised almost immediately.
Its actually way more likely he is just a lazy chancer who is unwilling to put the hard work in to become successful with the talent he possesses.

Anyway, one thing I think we all agree on is that we need to get him off our books very quickly.

My plea for equality!: it’s possible to have mental health issues and also be lazy.

 

[mil1lion]

Maybe we can or have already had someone speak to him about what's going on. If he's just lazy or whatever is the reason he lacks any motivation to do his job. I hope we learn about his type of character so we can improve our recruitment process. If nothing else comes from signing him I hope we learn the mistake made and avoid players like this in future. Maybe we need to do better background checks on what sort of person he is. We had an issue with Spence too where we signed him yet already was talk about the people he hangs around with. With the new infrastructure in place now and this data lead approach we also need to do these checks. I like that Ange spoke to Vicario to get a good idea of what sort of character he is and what his motives are. Our recent signings have all had great character to be fair so seems we're heading in the right direction.

 

[HildoSpur]

Maybe we can or have already had someone speak to him about what's going on. If he's just lazy or whatever is the reason he lacks any motivation to do his job. I hope we learn about his type of character so we can improve our recruitment process. If nothing else comes from signing him I hope we learn the mistake made and avoid players like this in future. Maybe we need to do better background checks on what sort of person he is. We had an issue with Spence too where we signed him yet already was talk about the people he hangs around with. With the new infrastructure in place now and this data lead approach we also need to do these checks. I like that Ange spoke to Vicario to get a good idea of what sort of character he is and what his motives are. Our recent signings have all had great character to be fair so seems we're heading in the right direction.

Agreed and from the sounds of it Ange feels this is extremely important as well given that he appears to take time to speak to a prospective signing to get a 'feel' for them and their motivations for signing. It is common sense really however it appears this has been lacking in many aspects of our recruitment over the years. So let's hope that finally now we have cracked it - it is easy to see the improvement in the past couple of years anyway. We need to stop viewing signings as assets first and people second - who the person is, their motivation and their mental fortitude are extremely important.

 

[mil1lion]

My plea for equality!: it’s possible to have mental health issues and also be lazy.

I think they can often be linked. Like if you have someone who is lazy at their job it could be they're not in a happy place in their personal life. So the motivation isn't there. Particularly if every day working feels routine and the person is not feeling challenged. With Ndombele he could be stuck in this cycle where he's not happy because he's not playing so he's lazy with everything. Yet he won't get picked because he's lazy so it just gets stuck in this circle. He could also have been in this weird situation growing up where he was so talented at football he didn't feel this need to work hard for it. Where less talented players have to work harder to be good and it's then ingrained in them. Ndombele maybe is someone who things came easy to him in football so the lack of effort is ingrained in him.

 

[greaves]

I think they can often be linked. Like if you have someone who is lazy at their job it could be they're not in a happy place in their personal life. So the motivation isn't there. Particularly if every day working feels routine and the person is not feeling challenged. With Ndombele he could be stuck in this cycle where he's not happy because he's not playing so he's lazy with everything. Yet he won't get picked because he's lazy so it just gets stuck in this circle. He could also have been in this weird situation growing up where he was so talented at football he didn't feel this need to work hard for it. Where less talented players have to work harder to be good and it's then ingrained in them. Ndombele maybe is someone who things came easy to him in football so the lack of effort is ingrained in him.

Agreed. ( sorry, I was being a bit facetious with that comment)

 

[easley91]

Yeah absolutely it's warranted for people to criticise him. I don't think easley is suggesting we can't. It's just an observation to suggest it could be something else going on with him. I think you can be critical of how he's acting but still also ask questions why he is this way.

This.

Criticise to a degree sure, but be aware there may be something else going on we are not privy to. Also the fat jokes have never been and never will be funny.

I only bring up Dele as an example because it is the most recent and most obvious. Everyone called him lazy and questioned his attitude when his form dropped and he couldn't pick it back up, but it turned out there were things going on in the background.

Is it bad/sad he can't lose weight or seem to get motivated? Absolutely. Do any of us know what the reason/s is/are for this? Nope. All I am saying is be mindful with the criticism until the truth and facts come out.

 

[easley91]

& thats fair enough, but it always crops up. As soon as we show a level of disdain against him, the mental health issue is raised almost immediately.
Its actually way more likely he is just a lazy chancer who is unwilling to put the hard work in to become successful with the talent he possesses.

Anyway, one thing I think we all agree on is that we need to get him off our books very quickly.

It may be more likely in your eyes, but it might also not be the case at all. Just be mindful. Some people are lazy, whilst some people seem lazy due to depression. Because it's not an obvious thing to spot, that's why I say be mindful of how you label someone.

I don't like to outright judge people and that occurred with the Dele interview. It really opened my eyes up.

EDIT:
Just to clear things up I think he should be sold or something needs to be done to help him and the club in this situation.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

how's he getting on?

 

[TPdYID]

how's he getting on?

Sounds like he's burgered up his chances of redemption!

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Regardless of this particular player. I hope levy et al have learned from it. It isn't their money I give 2 hoots about. It's the fact that a waste of space like this, prevented spurs from signing player or two who would benefit the team and therefore the fans.

I agree with the sentiment but at the time i'm pretty sure 90% of fans were screaming 'back the manager!' and by all accounts the Ndombele signing was exactly that - his history was well known but the manager clearly thought he could manage and coach him to improve on these aspects. Fans hate that Levy/the board/recruitment team buy or veto players above the manager but maybe now there is an insight why this sometimes happens.

My feeling is that if we hadn't of sacked Poch then Ndombele's career with us would have been more positive. He's clearly a player who needed a settled environment to bring the best out of his talent but he came to us during a tumultuous period when the manager got sacked, and then we had lock down. It just wasn't the kind of environment to expect young players coming from a foreign league who needed nurturing to thrive in.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

A lot of people called Dele lazy once upon a time if I recall. Of course it could be laziness, but there could be an underlying mental issue causing what looks like lack of motivation and laziness

this is your assumption which is not a valid argument. if you want to defend Ndombele please provide credible evidence

 

[SpursSince1980]

Wasn't aimed at your post mate, more that throughout this thread lots of posters have stated that we can't question his attitude due to potentially having a mental health problem, which I disagree with.

“Stated you can’t question his attitude because he might have mental health issues”. Who has specifically said you shouldn’t criticize him because he might be mentally ill? Did I? Don’t think I did in my post about mental health. Sure it got dismissed out of hand by one or two. But, I can’t see where anyone has outright and with absolute resolve told anyone to hold back on the fat, lazy, chancer refrains because he might be not right upstairs. Seriously, who is saying this as you’ve made out?

 

[newbie]

A lot of people called Dele lazy once upon a time if I recall. Of course it could be laziness, but there could be an underlying mental issue causing what looks like lack of motivation and laziness

Please Don't ever compare him to Deli!

Deli overachieved at spurs for a good few years, he was unbelievable!

 

[danielneeds]

Please Don't ever compare him to Deli!

Deli overachieved at spurs for a good few years, he was unbelievable!

And always topped the running and sprinting stats under Poch.

 

[newbie]

And always topped the running and sprinting stats under Poch.

Exactly!

He will always have a place in the heart of the fans.

 

[thehipster]

In my coaching business I give people a variety of perspectives to explore.

It's good to remember that we're all a product of our conditioning and programming. We only know what we know. If we knew how to do something better, we would be doing it better.

So here's the first one...and let's use Tanguy as an example.
Lets say you were born in the same year as he was, with his DNA and grew up in the same household, with the same parents. You went to the same schools, had the same education, the same highs, lows, fears, pain, humiliations, rejections, friends, good days, bad days, you travelled where he did, had the same jobs, met the same people and experienced everything he did, in the way ‘he’ did….you would be making exactly the same decisions as he is now, the very ones for which you are judging him for.

Another way of framing it would be…
If his life was compiled into a 3 hour film….having watched it, you may not necessarily agree with his decisions, but you understand why he made them and why he is the person he is today.

And that goes for everyone.

I take blame off the table when working with people as everyone is an end-product of what’s gone before - regardless of whether other people find that hard to believe.
It’s a real shame Tanguy couldn’t make peace with what’s gone on before in his life - so that he could have found the courage to commit to Ange (who would have been an awesome teacher and mentor for him). But I’m not going to blame Tanguy, because he’s obviously got lots of thoughts of worthlessness or insecurity going on, for him to act in such a way.

And that for me is compassion. Deep down, every human wants to be seen, held and heard.
Unfortunately, not everyone is given the opportunity to have that truly amazing human experience.

Laziness is driven by a fear (of something)…and he probably has no idea himself what is driving that deep down.

These words are just my perspective on life, working in the field I do.
I fully appreciate that everyone on this planet has slightly different (or even very opposing) perspectives, dependent on their upbringing and their experiences.
The conflicts around the planet demonstrate that.

But as a final piece of perspective, I’ll share this excellent clip with you.
Growing up, as children, if we’re not fully seen, held and heard….then there will be wounds to heal and challenges to overcome. That’s life.
But for some….it’s a damn sight harder than others. That pressure and stress can build and build and cumulate in health, behavioural or even criminal/violence issues. And it’s never obvious what the core issue is, even to the individual themselves.

As they say, hurt people hurt people (emotionally, physically, behaviourally).

Do watch this.
Over and out.