Our performances this season - one for the stattos...

[floydiohead]

There has been quite a division on here (and amongst supporters I know) about whether or not we have actually played well since the start of the season, and particularly after the game against Burnley and last night.

If anyone has the time and inclination, it would be very interesting to take a group of stats (i.e. possession, shots on/off target, passes, distance covered etc.) for the games since the start of the season to see how they look. I know that stats may not give the absolute full picture, but I wonder whether they will show us trends and either reinforce or debunk ideas how about we play under Mourinho. I suppose if you wanted to get clever you could somehow link the stats like shots on goal/possession to points obtained under Mourinho, and also measure individual player performance. As I say, if anyone has the time and inclination, would be great to see.

 

[Kiedis]

According to Understat, we're 2nd for xG for and 7th for xG against.

Regarding xG against, it's worth bearing in mind that the weird penalties against Newcastle and Soton account for enough of our xG against that we'd be 2nd if we removed them.

Suggests that we've been creating at a decent rate, while also defending reasonably well.


Also took a gander at our latest two league games from a defensive viewpoint. We've only allowed two open play shots from inside the box, and five attempts from set pieces (the one Kane saved on the line being the only "good" chance). We may have turned the screw somewhat defensively after the Hammers game, where we did concede pretty decent chances all through the game.
Could of course be down to Burnley being very bad at attacking and Brighton lacking a recognised striker, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

 

[chrissivad]

	Result	Shots (on target)	Possession
Everton	L 0-1	9 (5)	58%
Lokomotiv Plovdiv	W 1-2	18 (7)	76%
Southampton	W 2-5	9 (6)	47.5%
Shkendija	W 1-3	16 (8)	65%
Newcastle	D 1-1	23 (12)	66%
Chelsea	D 1-1	11 (3)	37%
Maccabi Haifa	W 7-2	23 (13)	52.5%
Man United	W 1-6	22 (8)	62%
Westham	D 3-3	11 (6)	51%
LASK	W 0-3	13 (5)	55%
Burnley	W 0-1	9 (3)	62%
Antwerp	L 1-0	15 (2)	56%
Brighton	W 2-1	9 (3)	43%

 

[nicdic]

For moans of defending too deep, being too easy to get at etc. Only three teams have faced more shots on target than us, Leeds, Brighton and Man City.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ultimately, we're second. And were it not for some last minute oddities, we'd be comfortably. That shows something is being done right.

But my instinct tells me that we're picking up points in spite of the management's/team's approach, rather than because of it. I also think our fixtures have been pretty kind so far. With the squad we have I would have expected to pick up the points we did, and probably more.

If we're talking stats: It's my feeling of the type possession we have that I feel most concerned by, and the frequency with which other teams seem to control large periods of the game against us - and how threatening each team looks.

This is a solid tactic for the right teams, but it's not as if I feel comfortable that we'll defend well when other teams have the ball. And outside of counter attacks, on the same note, when we have it, I don't feel we have much cutting edge.

We're moving in the right direction (certainly compared to times last year where we were as bad as I've seen us for a long time) but I remain slightly confused about the team's identity.

Moreover, talk of the title is crazy IMO. To do that, we would need:
- a CM (someone like Partey maybe?)
- RB (not Doherty)
- CB (Skriniar, or the like)
- a RW (I wonder how reliable, injury-wise, Bale will be - not sure the rest quite cut it)

We can look at stats, but I doubt they'll be that enlightening re: the points above.

 

[TheTanguy]

Moreover, talk of the title is crazy IMO. To do that, we would need:
- a CM ; Ruben Neves
- RB ; Lamptey
- CB ; Upamecano or Jules Koundé

 

[nicdic]

Ultimately, we're second. And were it not for some last minute oddities, we'd be comfortably. That shows something is being done right.

But my instinct tells me that we're picking up points in spite of the management's/team's approach, rather than because of it. I also think our fixtures have been pretty kind so far. With the squad we have I would have expected to pick up the points we did, and probably more.

If we're talking stats: It's my feeling of the type possession we have that I feel most concerned by, and the frequency with which other teams seem to control large periods of the game against us - and how threatening each team looks.

This is a solid tactic for the right teams, but it's not as if I feel comfortable that we'll defend well when other teams have the ball. And outside of counter attacks, on the same note, when we have it, I don't feel we have much cutting edge.

We're moving in the right direction (certainly compared to times last year where we were as bad as I've seen us for a long time) but I remain slightly confused about the team's identity.

Moreover, talk of the title is crazy IMO. To do that, we would need:
- a CM (someone like Partey maybe?)
- RB (not Doherty)
- CB (Skriniar, or the like)
- a RW (I wonder how reliable, injury-wise, Bale will be - not sure the rest quite cut it)

We can look at stats, but I doubt they'll be that enlightening re: the points above.

But that's perception and not reality. We are not allowing teams to create actual chances against us. For the possession they have, there are very few chances conceded. For all the chat of our defending being bad, the stats don't back it up. I get we would prefer to control the ball more, but we aren't being got at as people keep suggest.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

What is killing us is that once we take the lead and drop back / look to shore things up, there is no attacking threat. We're just spamming long balls forward that don't end up near anyone. At some point you either need to control the game for a spell OR actually create a chance/threat and keep the opposition worried. Outside of some diabolical defending from Southampton and West Ham, we've been supremely unimpressive in that sense. I'm not counting the match v 10 men United.

I would argue Newcastle was the only match we dominated from start to finish this whole season. That was a brilliant display, even if we got fucked over with VAR. I would feel more optimistic long term if we had drawn the last two vs Burnley/Brighton playing like that as opposed to the 6 points we got playing the way we did. Long term a team playing like the one that did vs Newcastle is going to win more points than one playing like yesterday or vs Burnley.

What happens is when you can't piece together a threat while in the lead, you are less likely to score and more likely to get scored on. Liverpool won the title because when they took the lead they were solid and still an incredible threat on the break with Salah/Mane. We do not have that right now. Man City won the title because when they took the lead they ran with it and blew teams away. We do not have that right now.

I think we are slightly riding our luck and have to remember we have not played a particularly tough schedule so far. The toughest aspect for us has been the sheer amount of matches we've been involved in when factoring in the cups as well.

The fact that we have been very good when not leading suggests the team has the capacity to play well and compete at a high level this season. However, something has to change once we have the lead, because we will end up losing points against the better sides in this division if we continue that approach.

I think getting GLC into full fitness and injury free will be massive as he seems to be the only midfielder we have that can run and cover space, be highly technical on the ball, get stuck in, be intelligent, and control a game. A box to box technician type in the mold of a Modric, Kroos, etc.

 

[floydiohead]

But that's perception and not reality. We are not allowing teams to create actual chances against us. For the possession they have, there are very few chances conceded. For all the chat of our defending being bad, the stats don't back it up. I get we would prefer to control the ball more, but we aren't being got at as people keep suggest.

This is what interests me. Is it that we are too quick to label a lack of possession as a poor performance? If we are not keeping the ball, but at the same time not allowing teams to create actual chances, then isn't that very good performance?

 

[Nayim60yards]

This is what interests me. Is it that we are too quick to label a lack of possession as a poor performance? If we are not keeping the ball, but at the same time not allowing teams to create actual chances, then isn't that very good performance?

It's a conundrum. Let's put it this way it doesn't feel comfortable I'm watching us cede possession and sit off with a fragile one goal lead, particularly as we have generally played well up to the point of taking the lead before some kind of collective caution takes us over and we start letting the most average opposition have the ball and the opportunities to try to attack us. From watching All Or Nothing this is not what Jose asks us to do. He always seemed to be saying kill the game with goals so where does it start happening and how does it run through the whole team?

 

[Locotoro]

What is killing us is that once we take the lead and drop back / look to shore things up, there is no attacking threat. We're just spamming long balls forward that don't end up near anyone. At some point you either need to control the game for a spell OR actually create a chance/threat and keep the opposition worried. Outside of some diabolical defending from Southampton and West Ham, we've been supremely unimpressive in that sense. I'm not counting the match v 10 men United.

I would argue Newcastle was the only match we dominated from start to finish this whole season. That was a brilliant display, even if we got fucked over with VAR. I would feel more optimistic long term if we had drawn the last two vs Burnley/Brighton playing like that as opposed to the 6 points we got playing the way we did. Long term a team playing like the one that did vs Newcastle is going to win more points than one playing like yesterday or vs Burnley.

What happens is when you can't piece together a threat while in the lead, you are less likely to score and more likely to get scored on. Liverpool won the title because when they took the lead they were solid and still an incredible threat on the break with Salah/Mane. We do not have that right now. Man City won the title because when they took the lead they ran with it and blew teams away. We do not have that right now.

I think we are slightly riding our luck and have to remember we have not played a particularly tough schedule so far. The toughest aspect for us has been the sheer amount of matches we've been involved in when factoring in the cups as well.

The fact that we have been very good when not leading suggests the team has the capacity to play well and compete at a high level this season. However, something has to change once we have the lead, because we will end up losing points against the better sides in this division if we continue that approach.

I think getting GLC into full fitness and injury free will be massive as he seems to be the only midfielder we have that can run and cover space, be highly technical on the ball, get stuck in, be intelligent, and control a game. A box to box technician type in the mold of a Modric, Kroos, etc.

The way we played against Newcastle may have been dominating the ball but there were times we looked shaky in defence and ultimately we didn't close out the game. By the same stretch we took more points in the Burnley and Brighton games because we saw the risk and managed the game out to it's conclusion. We won those points with intelligent defending.

I understand the comparison you're making with Liverpool but you realise you're comparing Mourinho's 2nd season Spurs with Klopps 5th season title winning Liverpool and Peps moneybags Man City. The comparison is not an equal measure. JM is starting with the basics and building from there whilst also still wants a few more players to add and a few to drop.

I agree the schedule has been kind but our best performances of the season have been against our biggest rivals. We were inspired against Utd and our second string played very intelligently against a very strong Chelsea to get a draw and penalty win. So the idea of tougher games showing us up somehow doesn't necessarily ring true.

Also agree on GLC, he for me is the one that makes things tick, even more so than Ndombele, because he just doesn't seem to tire.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

For those of you who feel we just sit back and play long balls:

Premier League Club Stats - Long Balls

View Long Balls played by Premier League clubs for 2023/24 and previous seasons, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

 

[Cochise]

I do still find it worrying that at times our midfield just doesn't seem able to hold onto it. I could take the easy route here and point at Sissoko and whilst the guy does treat the ball like it's a bomb at times, I do think our shape ahead of him and Hojbjerg doesn't always give them enough options.

 

[floydiohead]

For those of you who feel we just sit back and play long balls:

Premier League Club Stats - Long Balls

View Long Balls played by Premier League clubs for 2023/24 and previous seasons, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

Really interesting, and below Liverpool who apparently play the best and most attractive football on the planet, along with a number of other clubs who are touted as playing with a 'good' footballing style.

 

[Shadydan]

We're doing well.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

For those of you who feel we just sit back and play long balls:

Premier League Club Stats - Long Balls

View Long Balls played by Premier League clubs for 2023/24 and previous seasons, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

Well .... I think the criticism is that we only sit back and don't even play long balls.

 

[Gassin's finest]

MIdfield is still key. Strongest lineup involves Hojberg, Ndombele and Lo Celso. When we sub or drop one of them then we have to use one of the midfielders from last season, all of which were part of the reason we were so inconsistent last year. I mean, I have a lot of time for Winks, Sissoko and Dele... but they're just inconsistent and a step down compared to those first choices.

 

[Shadydan]

Here's another site for the statto's to get your teeth into

Premier League Stats | FBref.com

Check out Stats for the 2023-2024 Premier League season.

fbref.com