Nicolò Zaniolo

[Ghost Hardware]

My issue with him is his movement . Now it might be tactics but the amount of times there was so much space for him to move into behind or wide and also to come deeper to provide a link to the wing back and he didn’t. He just stood there wanted the ball to feet when the passing lane was blocked.
last thing we need is another forward with poor movement

I wouldn't read to much into that, its a fair point but this down to Jose and his non existing attacking tactics coupled with his poor development of young players. I have watched Zaniolo since Inter brought him into their youth team. Then he was an AM rather then a RWF and he had excellent movement and in general was far more dynamic. He used to have great movement, creative passing, incredible ball control etc. I know they are different players but if you watch Kulu for Juve, he was a shadow of the player he is now. Poor movement, heavy touch, hanging on to the ball far too much resulting in missed chances etc. I must admit that at that point i didn't particularly want him because i thought he had faltered in his development since he was at Parma. Since then i have gladly learnt my lesson and since altered my thinking in regards to players like this. Now obviously Zaniolo is a different player, but the player you saw yesterday is a universe away from the player he really is. Yes he needs more refinement then Kulu, which is understandable considering he missed over a year of football at such a young age. But its worth noting that the general consensus in Italy is that he still has incredible untaped potential. Now will he succeed if he comes here, honestly i don't know. And yeah he could flop. But, as i said before, Paratici and Conte know him as well as they know Kulu and IF they really want him more then anyone else then i have faith that they will be able to turn him into the player everyone thought he had the potential to be.

As i mentioned before, would he be my pick. No, as i think he is a risk and personally id like someone who ive seen play at a higher level consistently. BUT, if Conte and Paratici still really want him as their first choice attacking addition i am 100% behind this and would be very excited to see him here because of his raw talent and what Conte has achieved with Kulu and Bentancur.

 

[djhotspur]

I wouldn't read to much into that, its a fair point but this down to Jose and his non existing attacking tactics coupled with his poor development of young players. I have watched Zaniolo since Inter brought him into their youth team. Then he was an AM rather then a RWF and he had excellent movement and in general was far more dynamic. He used to have great movement, creative passing, incredible ball control etc. I know they are different players but if you watch Kulu for Juve, he was a shadow of the player he is now. Poor movement, heavy touch, hanging on to the ball far too much resulting in missed chances etc. I must admit that at that point i didn't particularly want him because i thought he had faltered in his development since he was at Parma. Since then i have gladly learnt my lesson and since altered my thinking in regards to players like this. Now obviously Zaniolo is a different player, but the player you saw yesterday is a universe away from the player he really is. Yes he needs more refinement then Kulu, which is understandable considering he missed over a year of football at such a young age. But its worth noting that the general consensus in Italy is that he still has incredible untaped potential. Now will he succeed if he comes here, honestly i don't know. And yeah he could flop. But, as i said before, Paratici and Conte know him as well as they know Kulu and IF they really want him more then anyone else then i have faith that they will be able to turn him into the player everyone thought he had the potential to be.

As i mentioned before, would he be my pick. No, as i think he is a risk and personally id like someone who ive seen play at a higher level consistently. BUT, if Conte and Paratici still really want him as their first choice attacking addition i am 100% behind this and would be very excited to see him here because of his raw talent and what Conte has achieved with Kulu and Bentancur.

Thanks mate very insightful

 

[mr ashley]

I wouldn't read to much into that, its a fair point but this down to Jose and his non existing attacking tactics coupled with his poor development of young players. I have watched Zaniolo since Inter brought him into their youth team. Then he was an AM rather then a RWF and he had excellent movement and in general was far more dynamic. He used to have great movement, creative passing, incredible ball control etc. I know they are different players but if you watch Kulu for Juve, he was a shadow of the player he is now. Poor movement, heavy touch, hanging on to the ball far too much resulting in missed chances etc. I must admit that at that point i didn't particularly want him because i thought he had faltered in his development since he was at Parma. Since then i have gladly learnt my lesson and since altered my thinking in regards to players like this. Now obviously Zaniolo is a different player, but the player you saw yesterday is a universe away from the player he really is. Yes he needs more refinement then Kulu, which is understandable considering he missed over a year of football at such a young age. But its worth noting that the general consensus in Italy is that he still has incredible untaped potential. Now will he succeed if he comes here, honestly i don't know. And yeah he could flop. But, as i said before, Paratici and Conte know him as well as they know Kulu and IF they really want him more then anyone else then i have faith that they will be able to turn him into the player everyone thought he had the potential to be.

As i mentioned before, would he be my pick. No, as i think he is a risk and personally id like someone who ive seen play at a higher level consistently. BUT, if Conte and Paratici still really want him as their first choice attacking addition i am 100% behind this and would be very excited to see him here because of his raw talent and what Conte has achieved with Kulu and Bentancur.

Zaniolo looks absolutely perfect for a team that plays on the break/ in transition like we do

 

[tottenham_skriniar]

I wouldn't read to much into that, its a fair point but this down to Jose and his non existing attacking tactics coupled with his poor development of young players. I have watched Zaniolo since Inter brought him into their youth team. Then he was an AM rather then a RWF and he had excellent movement and in general was far more dynamic. He used to have great movement, creative passing, incredible ball control etc. I know they are different players but if you watch Kulu for Juve, he was a shadow of the player he is now. Poor movement, heavy touch, hanging on to the ball far too much resulting in missed chances etc. I must admit that at that point i didn't particularly want him because i thought he had faltered in his development since he was at Parma. Since then i have gladly learnt my lesson and since altered my thinking in regards to players like this. Now obviously Zaniolo is a different player, but the player you saw yesterday is a universe away from the player he really is. Yes he needs more refinement then Kulu, which is understandable considering he missed over a year of football at such a young age. But its worth noting that the general consensus in Italy is that he still has incredible untaped potential. Now will he succeed if he comes here, honestly i don't know. And yeah he could flop. But, as i said before, Paratici and Conte know him as well as they know Kulu and IF they really want him more then anyone else then i have faith that they will be able to turn him into the player everyone thought he had the potential to be.

As i mentioned before, would he be my pick. No, as i think he is a risk and personally id like someone who ive seen play at a higher level consistently. BUT, if Conte and Paratici still really want him as their first choice attacking addition i am 100% behind this and would be very excited to see him here because of his raw talent and what Conte has achieved with Kulu and Bentancur.

In the 2021-22 season, Roma was 3rd in Serie A for xG behind only Inter and Atalanta (and 3rd in xGA). In the current 2022-23 season, Roma is 3rd in xG behind only Napoli and Inter (and 1st in xGA). How on earth are you blaming Mourinho for "non-existing attacking tactics"? Why on earth would you watch an away match at the San Siro (where Mourinho traditionally sets up not to lose) against the defending Italian champions and go on to make blanket statements that Roma is bad at attacking? Roma would actually be higher in the table if their players actually knew how to finish. Check out the official Serie A channel trolling Roma with a 5 min compilation of all the times they hit the goalpost this season (doesn't even include all the big chance misses by the likes of Abraham, Zaniolo, Dybala, Belotti, etc)



Moreover, why would you say Mourinho is poor at developing young players when he has incorporated the likes of Zalewski, Volpato and now Tahirovic into the 1st team? Zalewski has even described Mourinho as like a second dad.

The general consensus of Zaniolo in Italy is that he's the next Balotelli/Cassano. In his entire career in Serie A (now 4 seasons), Zaniolo has more yellow + red cards than goals + assists. And even though Italy is desperate for attacking talent at the moment, there's a reason Zaniolo's been dropped multiple times from the Italian National team; Roberto Mancini has publicly questioned Zaniolo's attitude on multiple occasions.

Respectfully it seems you let your personal feelings toward Mourinho cloud your judgment because a good number of your posts always includes some kind of dig against Mourinho even though it's factually not true.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

In the 2021-22 season, Roma was 3rd in Serie A for xG behind only Inter and Atalanta (and 3rd in xGA). In the current 2022-23 season, Roma is 3rd in xG behind only Napoli and Inter (and 1st in xGA). How on earth are you blaming Mourinho for "non-existing attacking tactics"? Why on earth would you watch an away match at the San Siro (where Mourinho traditionally sets up not to lose) against the defending Italian champions and go on to make blanket statements that Roma is bad at attacking? Roma would actually be higher in the table if their players actually knew how to finish. Check out the official Serie A channel trolling Roma with a 5 min compilation of all the times they hit the goalpost this season (doesn't even include all the big chance misses by the likes of Abraham, Zaniolo, Dybala, Belotti, etc)



Moreover, why would you say Mourinho is poor at developing young players when he has incorporated the likes of Zalewski, Volpato and now Tahirovic into the 1st team? Zalewski has even described Mourinho as like a second dad.

The general consensus of Zaniolo in Italy is that he's the next Balotelli/Cassano. In his entire career in Serie A (now 4 seasons), Zaniolo has more yellow + red cards than goals + assists. And even though Italy is desperate for attacking talent at the moment, there's a reason Zaniolo's been dropped multiple times from the Italian National team; Roberto Mancini has publicly questioned Zaniolo's attitude on multiple occasions.

Respectfully it seems you let your personal feelings toward Mourinho cloud your judgment because a good number of your posts always includes some kind of dig against Mourinho even though it's factually not true.

My post was in response to comment made in regards to a specific game, one in which, as you say, Roma were set up "not to loose". This always results in incredibly disjointed attacking displays. Beyond that in a previous post i mentioned that Zaniolo would actually have much better assist stats if it wasn't for some awful finishing. I don't see why you are taking one comment about a specific game as a reason to lambast my opinions on Jose's overall attacking tactics as i actually haven't made any such comment in regards to this. The only occasions i have mentioned his tactics in the past have been in direct correlation to his use of Zaniolo. And in that regard i don't think anyone can dispute that the arrival of Dybala hasn't done him any favours and Jose has struggled to get them both working well in the same team consistently. Since summer Zaniolo has been moved across the pitch playing LWF, AMC and RWF or straight RW, that for me is not going to help him develop.

As for youth, any manager that comes into Roma is going to be tasked with integrating young plays as they have an exceptional academy. I agree that Zalewski has really blossomed this year and it seems his rather poor WC hasn't effected him at all. If anything he looks better, we were tentatively linked last summer and even then i was hoping we would make a move although i'm glad we got Udogie instead. But personally i find just playing a young player isn't the same as developing a young player. Just as Zalewski is currently a success this season you have on the flip side Afena-Gyan who looked a really promising talent when he first appeared last season but then never really developed and was shipped out at 19 last summer. Also the question marks over Jose's development of youth is a long standing one that has been well covered on here and media analysis.

Regarding Zaniolo, I mentioned in this thread during the summer that he had some attitude issues in the past and cited the night club incident last season when things between him and Jose came to a head. Since then tho, as i mentioned, he now has a very good working relationship with Jose and hasn't had any more off field issues, that i know of at least. Even then he isn't in the same bracket as Cassano/Balotelli when it comes to attitude issues who where practically unmanageable a lot of the time. Again as i mentioned in a previous post, Paratici has been tracking him for years and his name was listed on the famous napkin that was left in a hotel full of Juve targets. Both him and Conte will know all about his attitude issues pretty thoroughly and if they still want him that to me is a good enough sign to alleviate any concerns in that regard.

You mention the national team and his absences , a large part of that has been down to injuries and timings. Mancini himself just recently said that his hopes for 23 "let it give back Chiesa and Zaniolo, for it to be their year, after Euro 2020 I practically didn’t have them, with them and the full squad we can really start to do well again." that to me shows how much he believes in his potential and how important he could be for the team. Even in the past his biggest concerns were Zaniolo not making good on his potential but he has always said he puts the effort on the pitch its just the development aspect that is of concern. Thats not to say he has been the perfect player for Italy, he hasn't and on occasion has also been rightly lambasted for the same faults he shows at club level, holding onto the ball too long, overplaying, not passing etc. But even so Mancini still clearly rates him very highly.

I don't think anyone, including myself, has said anything about Zaniolo being the finished product. Far from it, i've said many times that he is still very raw and would need work and would be a risk. Ultimately we have had ITK saying Conte doesn't think he is being used correctly by Jose and believes he can get the best out of him. But fair enough that you may disagree with Conte on that.

 

[Hakkz]

In the 2021-22 season, Roma was 3rd in Serie A for xG behind only Inter and Atalanta (and 3rd in xGA). In the current 2022-23 season, Roma is 3rd in xG behind only Napoli and Inter (and 1st in xGA). How on earth are you blaming Mourinho for "non-existing attacking tactics"? Why on earth would you watch an away match at the San Siro (where Mourinho traditionally sets up not to lose) against the defending Italian champions and go on to make blanket statements that Roma is bad at attacking? Roma would actually be higher in the table if their players actually knew how to finish. Check out the official Serie A channel trolling Roma with a 5 min compilation of all the times they hit the goalpost this season (doesn't even include all the big chance misses by the likes of Abraham, Zaniolo, Dybala, Belotti, etc)



Moreover, why would you say Mourinho is poor at developing young players when he has incorporated the likes of Zalewski, Volpato and now Tahirovic into the 1st team? Zalewski has even described Mourinho as like a second dad.

The general consensus of Zaniolo in Italy is that he's the next Balotelli/Cassano. In his entire career in Serie A (now 4 seasons), Zaniolo has more yellow + red cards than goals + assists. And even though Italy is desperate for attacking talent at the moment, there's a reason Zaniolo's been dropped multiple times from the Italian National team; Roberto Mancini has publicly questioned Zaniolo's attitude on multiple occasions.

Respectfully it seems you let your personal feelings toward Mourinho cloud your judgment because a good number of your posts always includes some kind of dig against Mourinho even though it's factually not true.

Just the lazy agenda that anything negative that has ever happened in the world of football is because of Mourinho. It's consistent on this forum.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Just the lazy agenda that anything negative that has ever happened in the world of football is because of Mourinho. It's consistent on this forum.

Im struggling to see how a post that was in specific response to a single mach equates to me having an agenda against Jose. Im not in the Zaniolo thread to deconstruct the tactical nuances of Jose's time at Roma im primarily interested in discussing his on pitch relationship to Zaniolo which ITK has suggested is essentially lacking, at least tactically speaking. I have no hate for Jose at all. I just don't think he's perfect but i certainly don't think his Roma are a bad team. with some clever investment they have potential. I also think they should sell Zaniolo as its not working for ether party IMO.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

Mourinho as brazilian national coach...? Will Roma sell until they got a new coach in place?

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Mourinho as brazilian national coach...? Will Roma sell until they got a new coach in place?

Very curious to see what happens. It could actually help us if we want him. Guess it depends who they get to replace Jose.

 

[Flobadob]

Zaniolo looks absolutely perfect for a team that plays on the break/ in transition like we do

This is also equally probably why he’s struggling under Mourinho who plays this passive dog shit style on the defence and then when they get the ball doesn’t break with pace but instead plays slow sideways and backwards football. If you had to come up with a set of tactics going either way that make less sense put together than that you’d have a tough time. If you sit back and soak up pressure you have no choice but to break at pace when you have the ball. Admittedly we haven’t been great at that this season but we’ve been missing Kulusevski a lot who is incredible in transition as he makes the right choice 99\100 times and has the quality to execute on top of that. I’d be surprised if our form doesn’t take a big upward curve now Kulusevski is back fit, such an important player

 

[mr ashley]

This is also equally probably why he’s struggling under Mourinho who plays this passive dog shit style on the defence and then when they get the ball doesn’t break with pace but instead plays slow sideways and backwards football. If you had to come up with a set of tactics going either way that make less sense put together than that you’d have a tough time. If you sit back and soak up pressure you have no choice but to break at pace when you have the ball. Admittedly we haven’t been great at that this season but we’ve been missing Kulusevski a lot who is incredible in transition as he makes the right choice 99\100 times and has the quality to execute on top of that. I’d be surprised if our form doesn’t take a big upward curve now Kulusevski is back fit, such an important player

Makes no sense- we became a team that plays on the break under Jose.

 

[Flobadob]

Makes no sense- we became a team that plays on the break under Jose.

We became a team that relied on Kane dropping balls on a plate for Son. Other than that going forward we were absolutely turgid and there was nothing fast about how we counter attacked 90% of the time

 

[mr ashley]

We became a team that relied on Kane dropping balls on a plate for Son. Other than that going forward we were absolutely turgid and there was nothing fast about how we counter attacked 90% of the time

An example of this ??

Just the lazy agenda that anything negative that has ever happened in the world of football is because of Mourinho. It's consistent on this forum.

 

[Flobadob]

An example of this ??

Haha come on man, I liked Mourinho but the football we played under him was horrendous and his tactics are still dross unless you have top players everywhere. Just my opinion, what you are saying is another example of this “everyone has an agenda” culture on here that’s also ridiculous

 

[THFCSPURS19]

An example of this ??

No it fucking isn't. We were dreadful going forward under Mourinho in many games. That is 100% fact.

 

[rossdapep]

No it fucking isn't. We were dreadful going forward under Mourinho in many games. That is 100% fact.

Mental how people are now revising that.

Jose had one real strategy. Kane drops deep and son gets on his bike.

We saw that completely in the number of games we could not get out of our own half.

I find it irritating when people say Conte's style is the same as Jose's. Conte has a number of attacking patterns and you can see him instructing players to push up and move the ball into certain areas.

Jose just seemed to expect some players to find their own way.

 

[wrd]

Mental how people are now revising that.

Jose had one real strategy. Kane drops deep and son gets on his bike.

We saw that completely in the number of games we could not get out of our own half.

I find it irritating when people say Conte's style is the same as Jose's. Conte has a number of attacking patterns and you can see him instructing players to push up and move the ball into certain areas.

Jose just seemed to expect some players to find their own way.

The tactical revelation that happened under Jose was that Harry Kane watched The Last Dance Documentary and got inspired by Jordan, that's about it.

 

[chrissivad]

So Zaniolo ...

​

 

[Snarfalicious]

So Zaniolo ...

​

If you want to talk about Zaniolo go to the Zaniolo thread.

Link: https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicolò-zaniolo.150062/post-8196885

 

[the yid]

If you want to talk about Zaniolo go to the Zaniolo thread.

Link: https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/nicolò-zaniolo.150062/post-8196885

I still had t click the link out of curiosity