New Stadium Details And Discussions

[danielneeds]

Just some food for though for anyone who might think 56k is too large a stadium for Spurs. QPR launched a consoltation today for their new stadium plans, the stadium will have 40k seats. Currently they have 19k seats and struggle to get over 18k fans to watch their miserable team (Sandro excluded). Why bother with so many seats, some might wonder? I believe that a large stadium is more than just a place for the fans, it's a status symbol, it's one of your most visible assets. A 40k stadium says to people all over the world watching on TV that this is a big club. It's why I favour a 60k seater stadium, the extra fans will make a difference of course, but it also puts us on the same level as the Man Utds of this world in the eyes of people watching. It'll also diminish the likes of Newcastle (and shortly West Hame) who appear to be a much bigger club than they are.

West Ham playing in a half empty stadium every other week won't make them look a big club... It'll drain away any soul remaining in that miserable club.

 

[cliff jones]

I had the pleasure of meeting Bath Yid and he's impressive and convincing, and as I recall in no way shape or form a BSOL.

 

[cornelius knob]

West Ham playing in a half empty stadium every other week won't make them look a big club... It'll drain away any soul remaining in that miserable club.

They wont be playing in a half empty stadium though will they. They`ll fill it. One way or another they will fill that stadium and as much as I detest that club, they will `grow` into a big club as a result. In the meantime, we`ll still be on here discussing possible new plans, debating the capacity, talking about where we might play for a season, and finish up getting left behind another of our local rivals.

 

[robbiedee]

They wont be playing in a half empty stadium though will they. They`ll fill it. One way or another they will fill that stadium and as much as I detest that club, they will `grow` into a big club as a result. In the meantime, we`ll still be on here discussing possible new plans, debating the capacity, talking about where we might play for a season, and finish up getting left behind another of our local rivals.

...the day we get left behind by West Ham, I swear I'll eat my own faeces

The stadium is coming, I just know it...sometime soon, in the next couple of years or so

 

[danielneeds]

They wont be playing in a half empty stadium though will they. They`ll fill it. One way or another they will fill that stadium and as much as I detest that club, they will `grow` into a big club as a result. In the meantime, we`ll still be on here discussing possible new plans, debating the capacity, talking about where we might play for a season, and finish up getting left behind another of our local rivals.

I severely doubt they'll fill it. Even giving away tickets.

 

[markiespurs]

I severely doubt they'll fill it. Even giving away tickets.

Exactly, they can't even fill their existing shit hole. And that's with paper and radio advertising.

 

[pook]

Just some food for though for anyone who might think 56k is too large a stadium for Spurs. QPR launched a consoltation today for their new stadium plans, the stadium will have 40k seats. Currently they have 19k seats and struggle to get over 18k fans to watch their miserable team (Sandro excluded). Why bother with so many seats, some might wonder? I believe that a large stadium is more than just a place for the fans, it's a status symbol, it's one of your most visible assets...

isn't that the rationale they used up in darlington?

 

[whitesocks]

They wont be playing in a half empty stadium though will they. They`ll fill it. One way or another they will fill that stadium and as much as I detest that club, they will `grow` into a big club as a result. In the meantime, we`ll still be on here discussing possible new plans, debating the capacity, talking about where we might play for a season, and finish up getting left behind another of our local rivals.

It is a worry.
After all, they filled the stadium during the olympics and 90% of the crowd knew nothing of athletics.
Or even had much of an interest in athletics.
But they all paid big money for their seats with pretty distant views of the sporadic action and by most accounts had a really good day out, munching on their franchise burgers, waving their flags and clapping and cheering when told to.
OK that was one of the biggest events in the world, but if Wham can capture that spirit, then they'll be laughing.

Tourists and corporate suits are increasingly the ones spending the money. They do not take it seriously, and do not have the knowledge or interest to make any criticism, constructive or otherwise.
It is more important to them that the facilities are clean and comfortable, the staff smiley and welcome, the food hot, the coke cold and the mascots are funny.
That, rather than be nearer to the pitch and a game with its 4-3-3 and 5-3-2s that they find increasingly hard to decipher.

The olympic stadium is easy to get to and I think it will suit quite a few modern day fans.

 

[cornelius knob]

The stadium is coming, I just know it...sometime soon, in the next couple of years or so

I hope your right, I really do. But we all thought that 3 or 4 years ago. And as things stand we`re even more in the dark about the whole thing than we were then.
The most frustrating thing is the continued silence from the club. As paying customers, and members, putting in excess of £1000 pounds into the coffers each season I think we deserve better. I think the archway business is a scam. Nothing more than a delaying tactic. I think the "necessary change in design" was another scam. As was the move away from the original arhitechts. All delaying tactics while Enic, or whatever name they`re trading under, explore as many avenues as possible to exploit maximum profit from the future sale of the club and/or surrounding land. Hence the real reason for pushing the move to the olympic stadium.
One things for sure, whatever the outcome of this long drawn out saga, the end result will be whats best for ENIC/Lewis/Levy/Tavistock/whatever. Not whats best for Tottenham Hotspur the football club.

 

[razor1981]

I hope your right, I really do. But we all thought that 3 or 4 years ago. And as things stand we`re even more in the dark about the whole thing than we were then.
The most frustrating thing is the continued silence from the club. As paying customers, and members, putting in excess of £1000 pounds into the coffers each season I think we deserve better. I think the archway business is a scam. Nothing more than a delaying tactic. I think the "necessary change in design" was another scam. As was the move away from the original arhitechts. All delaying tactics while Enic, or whatever name they`re trading under, explore as many avenues as possible to exploit maximum profit from the future sale of the club and/or surrounding land. Hence the real reason for pushing the move to the olympic stadium.
One things for sure, whatever the outcome of this long drawn out saga, the end result will be whats best for ENIC/Lewis/Levy/Tavistock/whatever. Not whats best for Tottenham Hotspur the football club.

We started building Phase 1 in October 2012 and finished it last year, at which point I imagine it was hoped we would be able to move onto Phase 2 pretty much straight away. This was impossible though as the CPO required to take ownership of the final piece of land for the stadium build had not been granted - and then dragged on for a whole further year while the Secretary of State made a decision. How this can be seen as a delaying tactic by the club I don't know. The CPO process normally takes an average of 11 weeks to reach a decision, this one took more than 18 months! That's a 15 month delay that was completely out of Levy & Co's hands.

We now have the CPO and will be able to start the process of taking ownership of the final piece of land as soon as the appeal deadline has passed (assuming no appeal is made). That deadline is September 10th. All signs indicate that the club are trying to get the build started as soon as they possibly can and have made significant progress with the ground preparation works.

The 'continued silence' from the club is necessary until the CPO is all signed and sealed, there is no way the club can make any statement about timescales, plans etc. while an appeal against the CPO decision remains a possibility.

 

[bungle]

I think the 'continued silence' comment is borne of frustration, not only about the stadium, but all aspects of the club.
Communication from the board / general management has been pretty poor from day 1 of ENIC's ownership.

 

[cornelius knob]

We started building Phase 1 in October 2012 and finished it last year, at which point I imagine it was hoped we would be able to move onto Phase 2 pretty much straight away. This was impossible though as the CPO required to take ownership of the final piece of land for the stadium build had not been granted - and then dragged on for a whole further year while the Secretary of State made a decision. How this can be seen as a delaying tactic by the club I don't know. The CPO process normally takes an average of 11 weeks to reach a decision, this one took more than 18 months! That's a 15 month delay that was completely out of Levy & Co's hands.

We now have the CPO and will be able to start the process of taking ownership of the final piece of land as soon as the appeal deadline has passed (assuming no appeal is made). That deadline is September 10th. All signs indicate that the club are trying to get the build started as soon as they possibly can and have made significant progress with the ground preparation works.

The 'continued silence' from the club is necessary until the CPO is all signed and sealed, there is no way the club can make any statement about timescales, plans etc. while an appeal against the CPO decision remains a possibility.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the stadium project. I respect your views. But tell me, why do you think Levy actively pursued the move to stratford. In fact, he publicly stated it was his prefered option. I`m genuinely interested to here your take on it. none of this ruse to get harringey off there backsides nonsense. We all know thats utter bollocks. So, why actively seek a move to stratford AFTER publicly submitting plans to redevelop WHL on the official website. 6 years ago.

 

[razor1981]

You seem to have a lot of faith in the stadium project. I respect your views. But tell me, why do you think Levy actively pursued the move to stratford. In fact, he publicly stated it was his prefered option. I`m genuinely interested to here your take on it. none of this ruse to get harringey off there backsides nonsense. We all know thats utter bollocks. So, why actively seek a move to stratford AFTER publicly submitting plans to redevelop WHL on the official website. 6 years ago.

Although plans had been submitted for the NDP, we were a long way from making it a viable reality at that point and the council didn't look like backing down on a lot of unreasonable demands being made of THFC in terms of the monies for improvements to the public realm. That all changed after the riots.

The Olympic site at Stratford offered an opportunity for a cheaper stadium build on a site with some of the best transport links in London. An opportunity to make the new Spurs stadium one of THE iconic sporting destinations in England. Most importantly (if you accept that a bigger stadium is key to making us a more competitive force) it offered a viable alternative if the obstacles in Tottenham proved insurmountable - which looked a distinct possibility at that time.

Levy may have stated his preference for a move to Stratford as it was the option that made the most financial sense, though a lot of what he was saying publicly at that time was just politicking.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Perhaps this announcement of Ron Robson to the board, a Tavistock man it seems to me, could indicate things are creaking into place

http://m.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/club-announcement-050914/

 

[spud]

One things for sure, whatever the outcome of this long drawn out saga, the end result will be whats best for ENIC/Lewis/Levy/Tavistock/whatever. Not whats best for Tottenham Hotspur the football club.

Perhaps you could explain how, regarding the stadium, these two objectives would be different. It seems to me that getting the stadium built asap is in the best interests of all, and delays or not building it at all suit nobody.

Seriously: I'm interested in how the club's best interests could, in any way, be different from the other parties you've mentioned.

 

[ShayLaB]

Re: West Ham filling their stadium.

Queens Park FC

 

[davidmatzdorf]

But tell me, why do you think Levy actively pursued the move to stratford. In fact, he publicly stated it was his prefered option. I`m genuinely interested to here your take on it. none of this ruse to get haringey off there backsides nonsense. We all know thats utter bollocks. So, why actively seek a move to stratford AFTER publicly submitting plans to redevelop WHL on the official website. 6 years ago.

The answers to this are all over this thread, in great detail, and have been explored multiple times.

It had nothing to do with 'getting Haringey off their backsides'. There was a banking crisis and it was impossible to finance any development projects at all, for a period of at least 2 years. I work in the development field: housing development ground to a near-total halt, even relatively straightforward schemes. A highly complex multi-use stadium-led development in a deprived area stood no chance of being financed. Lenders who had been queuing up to fund anything with a [falsified] 15% profit were suddenly demanding that every development show a 25%-30% profit or they wouldn't cough up a penny.

The NDP was totally non-viable by those demanding standards and there was no indication that this would change in the medium term future. So Levy had to look elsewhere and, in order to win the OS bid, had to make as much noise as possible to convince the OS panel that the NDP was not going ahead and that the OS was our first priority, so he announced that the NDP was 'dead in the water'. Our bid turned out to have been invited under false pretences and was rejected, so for a few months we looked really screwed: there was no viable option.

Then there was a riot and the whole picture changed, because it became politically mandatory to 'do something' about Tottenham and it was plain to Haringey and to the Mayor that the NDP was the only game in town to serve as a centrepiece to the regeneration, specifically to lever in a half-billion quid of private inward investment.

Major financial and political compromises were made and the NDP was gradually wrenched into being viable again. It wasn't straightforward and took the best part of 3 years.

Seriously, you have to read the thread. Use the search function if necessary. Several of us have taken a great deal of time to explain all this stuff in detail over and over again. It's a real pain in the arse to have people spewing this cynical, ignorant, angry stuff, always assuming that there is a simple answer (involving incompetence) when the real situation has been spectacularly complicated and ever-changing. Development is difficult. It always takes twice as long as everyone expects.

Read. The. Thread. Before you start making ungrounded assumptions.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

The answers to this are all over this thread, in great detail, and have been explored multiple times.

It had nothing to do with 'getting Haringey off their backsides'. There was a banking crisis and it was impossible to finance any development projects at all, for a period of at least 2 years. I work in the development field: housing development ground to a near-total halt, even relatively straightforward schemes. A highly complex multi-use stadium-led development in a deprived area stood no chance of being financed. Lenders who had been queuing up to fund anything with a [falsified] 15% profit were suddenly demanding that every development show a 25%-30% profit or they wouldn't cough up a penny.

The NDP was totally non-viable by those demanding standards and there was no indication that this would change in the medium term future. So Levy had to look elsewhere and, in order to win the OS bid, had to make as much noise as possible to convince the OS panel that the NDP was not going ahead and that the OS was our first priority, so he announced that the NDP was 'dead in the water'. Our bid turned out to have been invited under false pretences and was rejected, so for a few months we looked really screwed: there was no viable option.

Then there was a riot and the whole picture changed, because it became politically mandatory to 'do something' about Tottenham and it was plain to Haringey and to the Mayor that the NDP was the only game in town to serve as a centrepiece to the regeneration, specifically to lever in a half-billion quid of private inward investment.

Major financial and political compromises were made and the NDP was gradually wrenched into being viable again. It wasn't straightforward and took the best part of 3 years.

Seriously, you have to read the thread. Use the search function if necessary. Several of us have taken a great deal of time to explain all this stuff in detail over and over again. It's a real pain in the arse to have people spewing this cynical, ignorant, angry stuff, always assuming that there is a simple answer (involving incompetence) when the real situation has been spectacularly complicated and ever-changing. Development is difficult. It always takes twice as long as everyone expects.

Read. The. Thread. Before you start making ungrounded assumptions.

Nah don't worry mate, cornelius knob has the best sources around

 

[shelfmonkey]

...the day we get left behind by West Ham, I swear I'll eat my own faeces

The stadium is coming, I just know it...sometime soon, in the next couple of years or so

Do you prefer ketchup or brown sauce?

 

[Mister Jez]

According to a poster on Fighting Cook, Archway have packed up, in the process of moving. It would be great if someone close to the Lane could wander down and get some photos. Pretty please....