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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
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What if he is doing things in training and they're just shitting the bed on the pitch? That would point to there being problems other than set piece training, no?
I find it quite amazing that we have conceded around 14 goals from set pieces, one of the worst in the league, and your conclusion is:

"Wow. I bet they're working really hard on those in training where they don't even have a set piece specialist coach".

Occam's razor my man.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
8,069
30,053
If he actually said that, and he meant it, that's absolutely fucking stupid of him. Especially as he's stepping up from the Scottish league.

Found it




Some clubs have specific set piece coaches as Spurs did last season under Antonio Conte with Gianni Vio, but Postecoglou does not favour such an approach.

"I've never had a specific set-piece coach. I’ve always had someone who's responsible for that. I always think it’s better if that’s somebody who’s a part of the coaching staff because then that’s an extension of how we play our football," he said. "I don't separate set-pieces from everything else we do, in terms of the team we want to be. It all hopefully links in.

"Here we’ve split the roles between Mile [Jedinak] and Ryan Mason in terms of attacking and defensive set-pieces and they put a lot of work into it with the analysis staff. I'm sure every club does. Some have gone down the specialised route which I understand. It’s just it's not how I work. I always try to create a collective environment for everything we do, so that nothing is separated. I wouldn’t feel comfortable bringing in specialists for one particular area. Just for the way I work more than anything else."

"Delivery is vital. Last week wasn’t great. Madders is usually good at them but I thought we had a lot and I know Mase was pretty disappointed with that," said the Tottenham head coach. "There are always areas you can improve and those guys practise. It does help. As much as the organisation, you still need somebody who can execute. If you’ve got, and I'm going back a bit here, David Beckham on a free-kick, you don’t need a set-piece coach."

At the other end of the pitch, Jedinak has taken on the club's defensive set piece work and Postecoglou believes the fear factor plays its part with his young compatriot.

"I coached him and now he’s a coach in his own right. He’s very disciplined and is very well-organised," he said. " I just thought with him not being out of the game too long ago that he has a good understanding of what’s there, and he’s a scary bloke, mate. People are scared to go up against him, I figured that’s good criteria."

One area of Spurs' defensive set piece work that came under scrutiny recently was goalkeeper Guglielmo Vicario being targeted by opposition players trying to impede his ability to get to the ball. However, Postecoglou believes that the Italian has adapted to the physical nature of the Premier League and the officials have got wise to what was happening to him.

"I don’t think it’s been a real issue for us. It was in that game [against Everton], but I didn’t feel the officiating around the game...it’s been interesting to see since then, it seems like they’ve become more vigilant with how much contact there is in the penalty box, so we kind of were the test case maybe for that," said the Tottenham boss.

"It's not easy for a goalkeeper coming into the Premier League from a league outside. I don’t think there is any league like the Premier League and the pressure it puts on a goalkeeper from the physical aspect. He’s handled it really, really well.
The rest of it is just us dealing with defensive set-pieces. For the most part, we’ve handled them pretty well. I don't think the club as a whole last year handled them too well. We've definitely improved in that area."
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
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What if he is doing things in training and they're just shitting the bed on the pitch? That would point to there being problems other than set piece training, no?
If they are and they can't implement it on the pitch it infers there is either A) a problem with the players not being good enough, or B) the coaching is lacking something.

Romero and Davies were both part of a really well organised Conte defensive structure, especially at set plays, as were Bentancur, Deki and PEH. We've got some really good defenders on the ball, and at reading the game, but something is not right with the way we currently set up to defend corners and wide free kicks
 

yojambo

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2012
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It's funny how memories work, I remember us being good at attacking set pieces under Conte, with Peresic getting assists but I don't remember us being great at defending them.


Maybe Vio wasn't with us then.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,561
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Not, instead of biting immediately, read the replies and see if anyone else has said the same as what you think. That's what most people do. 👍
The way I see it, you got rightly called out for making an absurd suggestion that he play a youth player, and have tried to change your tune to fit.

It’s ok, we all make mistakes sometimes, but let’s face it, it’s what you meant when you wrote, and I quote:

“He could pick some one from the youth set up”

There’s nothing vague about that, and nothing in your original post to suggest it wasn’t what you meant. But if you’re back tracking on that now and saying you don’t think he should be picking a youth player in todays line up then that’s hunky dory, you were wrong and you accept that.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,683
332,096
I think you can play a bit of zonal and have players defend a few areas of the pitch but for sure you can't go full zonal. My only argument in terms of the players is that whether instructed or not you still have to adjust in a game. You can't just follow orders and not respond to what is happening within the game. It's basically what happens when a player gets sent off, tactics can go out the window but the players have to adjust to the change. It's the same for set pieces, quality players take charge of a situation. The 2nd set piece was the worst because they should have adjusted to them flooding the far post the 2nd time. They can't wait until half time so they get a new set of instructions. I think it says a lot about how we improve after half time that the players are maybe too reliant on their instructions and not adapting in game.
Then again you don't understand it. What we are doing by instruction isn't remotely flexible.
 

Jay.

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
645
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There were certainly a lot of positives too today. I think they are being overlooked due to the result, and we will probably see them more clearly on reflection.
there certainly were not many positives from today. If anything I think the scoreline papers over the many many fucking negatives.
 
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spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,593
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The way I see it, you got rightly called out for making an absurd suggestion that he play a youth player, and have tried to change your tune to fit.

It’s ok, we all make mistakes sometimes, but let’s face it, it’s what you meant when you wrote, and I quote:

“He could pick some one from the youth set up”

There’s nothing vague about that, and nothing in your original post to suggest it wasn’t what you meant. But if you’re back tracking on that now and saying you don’t think he should be picking a youth player in todays line up then that’s hunky dory, you were wrong and you accept that.
You're a bit touchy aren't you?

I'm not back tracking but if you think that, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

My original post was in response to someone saying he's forced to pick bang average players. He is not. He has the option of playing who he wants, whether they be youth or in the first team squad. It wasn't a comment that suggested he pick a youth team player vs Arsenal today.

Also, Danny Rose.
 

BorjeSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2007
3,318
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It's funny how memories work, I remember us being good at attacking set pieces under Conte, with Peresic getting assists but I don't remember us being great at defending them.


Maybe Vio wasn't with us then.
Was Vio really in charge of defensive set pieces? Something tells me he only did attacking but not sure on this.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,561
147,672
You're a bit touchy aren't you?

I'm not back tracking but if you think that, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

My original post was in response to someone saying he's forced to pick bang average players. He is not. He has the option of playing who he wants, whether they be youth or in the first team squad. It wasn't a comment that suggested he pick a youth team player vs Arsenal today.

Also, Danny Rose.
lol fucking lol make your mind up.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,707
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I don't think you understand the point and premise of zonal marking I'm afraid.
But again even if they're to stick to the zonal marking then they're clearly not following the plan either. There's a reason to zonal marking and it's based on the theory that every player defends all dangerous positions of the box. So in that case how do teams score from the 6 yard box? Players have the responsibility to defend it so how is that not on the players as well? Surely someone has the job of defending the near post of the 6 yard box. The fact is they did follow instructions and it didn't work, they conceded twice again from it.
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,593
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lol fucking lol make your mind up.
I've made my mind up ages ago.

He could play someone instead of whoever is "bang average". Son and Maddison are two that could be dropped for Gio and Richy, although it looks like Werner is out now.

PEH and Bissouma, less of an idea there as the squad is lacking.

Not sure exactly what you don't understand at this point.

Go and have a pint mate. You need to chill.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
8,069
30,053
Yeah, he's doubling down on the idea that he's not concerned about set-pieces.

Love the guy but he's wrong about this. It's one thing if we were this well oiled attacking machine that was taking teams apart for fun but we're conceding "easy" goals and also struggling to create opportunities, so set-pieces then become a PRIORITY.

We do not have enough of an elite mindset to continually mount comebacks when we're down several goals ( Arsenal comeback aside) and so it's makes sense to address the concern which is set-pieces.

 

13VanDerBale13

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
14,600
34,312
Found it




Some clubs have specific set piece coaches as Spurs did last season under Antonio Conte with Gianni Vio, but Postecoglou does not favour such an approach.

"I've never had a specific set-piece coach. I’ve always had someone who's responsible for that. I always think it’s better if that’s somebody who’s a part of the coaching staff because then that’s an extension of how we play our football," he said. "I don't separate set-pieces from everything else we do, in terms of the team we want to be. It all hopefully links in.

"Here we’ve split the roles between Mile [Jedinak] and Ryan Mason in terms of attacking and defensive set-pieces and they put a lot of work into it with the analysis staff. I'm sure every club does. Some have gone down the specialised route which I understand. It’s just it's not how I work. I always try to create a collective environment for everything we do, so that nothing is separated. I wouldn’t feel comfortable bringing in specialists for one particular area. Just for the way I work more than anything else."

"Delivery is vital. Last week wasn’t great. Madders is usually good at them but I thought we had a lot and I know Mase was pretty disappointed with that," said the Tottenham head coach. "There are always areas you can improve and those guys practise. It does help. As much as the organisation, you still need somebody who can execute. If you’ve got, and I'm going back a bit here, David Beckham on a free-kick, you don’t need a set-piece coach."

At the other end of the pitch, Jedinak has taken on the club's defensive set piece work and Postecoglou believes the fear factor plays its part with his young compatriot.

"I coached him and now he’s a coach in his own right. He’s very disciplined and is very well-organised," he said. " I just thought with him not being out of the game too long ago that he has a good understanding of what’s there, and he’s a scary bloke, mate. People are scared to go up against him, I figured that’s good criteria."

One area of Spurs' defensive set piece work that came under scrutiny recently was goalkeeper Guglielmo Vicario being targeted by opposition players trying to impede his ability to get to the ball. However, Postecoglou believes that the Italian has adapted to the physical nature of the Premier League and the officials have got wise to what was happening to him.

"I don’t think it’s been a real issue for us. It was in that game [against Everton], but I didn’t feel the officiating around the game...it’s been interesting to see since then, it seems like they’ve become more vigilant with how much contact there is in the penalty box, so we kind of were the test case maybe for that," said the Tottenham boss.

"It's not easy for a goalkeeper coming into the Premier League from a league outside. I don’t think there is any league like the Premier League and the pressure it puts on a goalkeeper from the physical aspect. He’s handled it really, really well.
The rest of it is just us dealing with defensive set-pieces. For the most part, we’ve handled them pretty well. I don't think the club as a whole last year handled them too well. We've definitely improved in that area."


Oh dear, we are screwed 🤦🏼‍♀️
 

yojambo

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2012
3,236
9,463
Was Vio really in charge of defensive set pieces? Something tells me he only did attacking but not sure on this.
Well regardless of whoever was in charge of defending set pieces, it's obviously been a problem for a few years.
 

Ribble

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2011
3,533
4,825
I find it quite amazing that we have conceded around 14 goals from set pieces, one of the worst in the league, and your conclusion is:

"Wow. I bet they're working really hard on those in training where they don't even have a set piece specialist coach".

Occam's razor my man.

IMO it's easier to believe that there's a deeper problem than every analyst & coach at the club not being acutely aware that there are issues with us conceding set pieces.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,902
35,847
Lets not rewrite history. whether Via did no defensive set piece or not, we never had a clear problem.
We were not fully zonal, we were half man marking, half zonal which worked.

Now, its very clear whats happening. In last 10-15 games, opponents are blocking Vicario, and hitting the pacy inswinging corners into the front post.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
IMO it's easier to believe that there's a deeper problem than every analyst & coach at the club not being acutely aware that there are issues with us conceding set pieces.

To be honest I dont care whether or not they are AWARE of the problem, I care whether or not they can FIX the problem.

At this stage they either:

1. Don't realise there is a problem
2. Are aware there is a problem, but have found themselves incapable of finding a solution.


There isnt really a 3rd option.
 

bungle4

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2005
659
269
Because it’s clearly a MAJOR issue ?
Denying it’s not, is only going to infuriate fans, when we keep conceding goals from set pieces.

A lot of work may be happening behind the scenes, but clearly this set up isn’t working & needs rectifying in the summer with new faces.
But it doesn't make it any less of an issue if he says we're shit at defending set pieces in a press conference. It probably just adds more pressure to the next few we face and lets every other manager know where to start planning. For me, press conferences/media responses shouldn't be about pacifying angry fans so I don't see the problem with him playing this down.

Completely agree we've got a problem defending set pieces but I'm sure we're working on it along with the rest of our obvious weaknesses right now.
 
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