Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[muppetman]

The one common denominator in that period of time is....go on I think you'll get this one....

Clubs with unlimited pockets? Us building a new stadium? The fact that football isn't a fair and level playing field?


Anyway, I'm contributing to taking the thread off topic so will stop now.

 

[Kirito]

Last season our games were a snoozefest.

This season has been pretty fun and thats on Ange. Low points have been Wolves, Fulham and Brighton away. We just didn’t turn up for those games but also those teams on the day played really well.

 

[Styopa]

Genuinely think for some they feel that something isn't right unless we should be pushing another coach out the door and getting another in

I think a lot of it is down to the fall out from the Poch period and Mourinho and Conte not winning anything here.

Fans look at Ange and think what chance has he got when those lot couldn’t.

Mourinho and Conte were uber pragmatic coaches who had won titles in the best leagues in the world. And here’s Ange, with his ultra attacking football, who’s never even managed in the top five leagues, let alone win them.

Now we are having to face up to the reality that it might take a few years just to catch up with Arsenal - a club we were regularly finishing above just a couple seasons ago.

I think that’s difficult for fans to take, especially after the sugar rush of coaches like Mourinho and Conte who were meant to be the fast ticket to success.

 

[GutBucket]

Perfect coach for us IMO, can't expect more from this season. Creative youngsters like Bergvall will be more likely to join with him here and Moore is probably happy to be in a club that scores goals for fun and excited about his future.

Just have to support him with transfers. It might take few seasons for us to become consistent but it will be easier to be patient when you actually see some good football and youngsters develop. Also not complaining all the time and sending weird messages to the press.

Ange made me forget we lost Kane this season, I saw bigger loss at Liverpool when they lost Mane and he's nowhere as good plus they bought few players to replace him.

 

[HildoSpur]

For the record, I am not one of those who thinks we should be pushing Ange out the door. I am fed up of changing manager every 16 months. Ange has not had enought time yet to prove one way or the other if he has what it takes to make us truly competitive. None of us know if he has it or not, but he deserves time to erase any doubt.

Unless we are in freefall (mid table or lower) then he should be given at least three full seasons.

Poch was 5th in his first season and then went 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

You could have fooled me based on your recent posts

 

[Styopa]

Like when we got UCL and gave Conte a 4th choice Barca LCB on loan and a championship RWB.

Or when we gave Arry, Nelsen and Saha.

Or when Poch didnt get his first choices....

We also bought Romero a few months before Conte joined, and Bentancur and Kulusevski a few months later, and Bissouma and Richarlison in his second transfer window, and Porro in his third transfer window. We actually spent a lot and bought a lot of players.

Ok he didn’t get every single player he needed but we were building. The squad was improving, it’s just it wasn’t a one or two window fix.

It’s the same with Ange. We’ve added some really good players but we also lost Kane and we’re probably four or five players short of really competing. If Ange sticks around we can use the next few windows to improve the squad and buy players that suit his system. But it takes time.

 

[PaulM]

We also bought Romero a few months before Conte joined, and Bentancur and Kulusevski a few months later, and Bissouma and Richarlison in his second transfer window, and Porro in his third transfer window. We actually spent a lot and bought a lot of players.

Ok he didn’t get every single player he needed but we were building. The squad was improving, it’s just it wasn’t a one or two window fix.

It’s the same with Ange. We’ve added some really good players but we also lost Kane and we’re probably four or five players short of really competing. If Ange sticks around we can use the next few windows to improve the squad and buy players that suit his system. But it takes time.

Sensible post but the difficulty is that our existing squad isn’t static. Players like Romero, VdV, Sarr, Udogie and others will be on the radar of “bigger” clubs while Son will eventually start to deteriorate if he hasn’t already. Sometimes it feels like an endless game of “we just need stability and a couple more windows.”

 

[TOLBINY]

You could have fooled me based on your recent posts

In my world it is possible to support the view that Conte had a strong CV and he should have been given the time he asked for as well as supporting Ange becuase he is now the incumbent. Not sure you will find too many posts of me being critical of Ange.

 

[Styopa]

Sensible post but the difficulty is that our existing squad isn’t static. Players like Romero, VdV, Sarr, Udogie and others will be on the radar of “bigger” clubs while Son will eventually start to deteriorate if he hasn’t already. Sometimes it feels like an endless game of “we just need stability and a couple more windows.”

Fully agree and I have criticised Levy for just this kind of thing in the past. But it does feel like this is the closest we have been to having a really competitive squad for about seven or eight years. So I feel like we should give the club the benefit of the doubt for now.

The same with Ange. It just feels like something we need to let play out for a few seasons because we’ve tried everything else and we’re never going to spend our way to the title.

I also think at least the football is generally fun under Ange whereas if we go down the route of another Conte we still might win nothing but be miserable about the football and atmosphere around the club. I know that’s not what you were suggesting but i mean it in terms of why I think we should have a higher tolerance for some disappointing results right now.

 

[Stamford]

The only gripe I have with Ange so far is good comments about not spending 100m on a player. If the right player came along there is no reason we shouldn't do so. The teams we want to compete with do and we pay the highest prices in world football so we should expect to see the best players.

Hope this stance changes, Klopp said similar and then realised to win he had to spend big. Won the league the following season.

 

[easley91]

Sensible post but the difficulty is that our existing squad isn’t static. Players like Romero, VdV, Sarr, Udogie and others will be on the radar of “bigger” clubs while Son will eventually start to deteriorate if he hasn’t already. Sometimes it feels like an endless game of “we just need stability and a couple more windows.”

That's how football works though, and we have always had those links with other clubs. So why is it such an issue now? We're not top elite like City, we're still at least one rung down on the food chain so the top clubs will be looking at our players and manager. We haven't actually sold that many of our best players at their peak to these clubs for a long time though, save for Kane I think the last one may have been Walker to City?

If they're on this radar then that means they're playing well and while they're with us that is a good thing as it should mean we're doing well as a result.

 

[HildoSpur]

In my world it is possible to support the view that Conte had a strong CV and he should have been given the time he asked for as well as supporting Ange becuase he is now the incumbent. Not sure you will find too many posts of me being critical of Ange.

So Ange can talk the talk. Good to know for when they start awarding trophies for great press conferences.

This you?

 

[Metalhead]

In my world it is possible to support the view that Conte had a strong CV and he should have been given the time he asked for as well as supporting Ange becuase he is now the incumbent. Not sure you will find too many posts of me being critical of Ange.

I understand what you're saying and you are right that it doesn't have to be one or the other. Who knows with Conte but at that point, I don't think that everything was there to give him the backing that he wanted and one gets the impression that Conte was never sure that Spurs were the best fit for him and the fans picked up on it. Add to that, the pragmatic style of football and it was never going to work. We just have to accept it and move on.

 

[TOLBINY]

This you?

Yes it is - if you are psoting that in some way to suggest it is a critism of Ange please explain how youy believe that is so.

 

[PaulM]

Fully agree and I have criticised Levy for just this kind of thing in the past. But it does feel like this is the closest we have been to having a really competitive squad for about seven or eight years. So I feel like we should give the club the benefit of the doubt for now.

The same with Ange. It just feels like something we need to let play out for a few seasons because we’ve tried everything else and we’re never going to spend our way to the title.

I also think at least the football is generally fun under Ange whereas if we go down the route of another Conte we still might win nothing but be miserable about the football and atmosphere around the club. I know that’s not what you were suggesting but i mean it in terms of why I think we should have a higher tolerance for some disappointing results right now.

Yeah I’ve dialled back my expectations and am just trying to enjoy the football under Ange. To be honest, I’m never expecting us to really challenge under him. I’m not sure he has the ability to do it at our club and I think the playing field is so heavily sloped against us.

I don’t really blame ENIC either. I have issues with some of Levy’s decisions but think, on balance, he’s done a very good job.

It’s close to impossible to compete with nation states who openly cheat. You could argue that Woolwich and Liverpool have done it but they’ve spent big money to do it and have a culture of winning that we lack.

For me, I’ve loved watching us this season. Going to the games has been a pleasure after the drudgery of the last few seasons. That’s enough to keep me happy and interested. There’s more to football than “show us your medals”. If the trophies follow and Ange surprises me, that’ll be a bonus.

 

[only1waddle]

The only gripe I have with Ange so far is good comments about not spending 100m on a player. If the right player came along there is no reason we shouldn't do so. The teams we want to compete with do and we pay the highest prices in world football so we should expect to see the best players.

Hope this stance changes, Klopp said similar and then realised to win he had to spend big. Won the league the following season.

Seemed to me it was a broader conversation about squad building and the parameters of the club, he said the club will never be in a position to buy a £100m player.
Personally, if the squad had two £50m players of a VdV/Porro/Sarr/Romero standard our squad would jump to another level, and any manager who feels the burden of spending the money wisely rather than getting giddy over spending £100m on one player has their head screwed on, and also my backing.
When you look at all the £100m+ player purchases only two of them have performed, there's no reason why we can't unearth a gem in the market, a Mahrez type that suddenly breaks out.
This is who we are, and if we won the league it would be two fingers up at those who have spent big on individual wonderbreads.

 

[TOLBINY]

I understand what you're saying and you are right that it doesn't have to be one or the other. Who knows with Conte but at that point, I don't think that everything was there to give him the backing that he wanted and one gets the impression that Conte was never sure that Spurs were the best fit for him and the fans picked up on it. Add to that, the pragmatic style of football and it was never going to work. We just have to accept it and move on.

This is not a criticism directed at you, but what you have written is part of my frustration - the narrative that Conte was not a good fit.

He's a proven winner at the top level, including the Prem, if it is not going to work with him then we should be asking;

1) why is it not going to work with him - and if the answer is the club heierachy then Conte was/ is not the problem
2) if the answer is he needs a huge transfer budget - his net spend at Inter was circa 160M Euros (4 windows) which included Lukaku at 74M.
3) who on earth is it going to work with if not someone with a proven record?

if Klopp or Pep wanted to manage us are we turning them down as not a good fit? If so, why? And what do those answers say about our club?

 

[HildoSpur]

This is not a criticism directed at you, but what you have written is part of my frustration - the narrative that Conte was not a good fit.

He's a proven winner at the top level, including the Prem, if it is not going to work with him then we should be asking;

1) why is it not going to work with him - and if the answer is the club heierachy then Conte was/ is not the problem
2) if the answer is he needs a huge transfer budget - his net spend at Inter was circa 160M Euros (4 windows) which included Lukaku at 74M.
3) who on earth is it going to work with if not someone with a proven record?

if Klopp or Pep wanted to manage us are we turning them down as not a good fit? If so, why? And what do those answers say about our club?

1) Conte was clearly the problem in the end. He didn't want to be here and by all accounts was toxic as fuck behind the scenes and eventually forced his own sacking
2)Comparing the transfer budget at Inter in the Italian league with a transfer budget within the Premier League is not comparable. The average spend per season in Serie A is around 40M, the average spend in the Premier League is around three times that. So you could argue that Conte actually spent comparitively a lot within Serie A while he was there, second only to Juve.
3) Anybody coming to a club the size of Spurs is going to have a proven record. Ange came to us on the back of a league win remember.

Who is suggesting that we would turn down Pep or Klopp by the way? Are you suggesting that? If so that's insane to suggest as they are without doubt the two best managers in world football right now.

 

[mil1lion]

This is not a criticism directed at you, but what you have written is part of my frustration - the narrative that Conte was not a good fit.

He's a proven winner at the top level, including the Prem, if it is not going to work with him then we should be asking;

1) why is it not going to work with him - and if the answer is the club heierachy then Conte was/ is not the problem
2) if the answer is he needs a huge transfer budget - his net spend at Inter was circa 160M Euros (4 windows) which included Lukaku at 74M.
3) who on earth is it going to work with if not someone with a proven record?

if Klopp or Pep wanted to manage us are we turning them down as not a good fit? If so, why? And what do those answers say about our club?

Some managers are a good fit for some clubs but not others. The issue with Conte was that he didn't work to improve players. He favours more experienced players. His approach is to challenge players mentally. He expects his players to react to criticism. This doesn't work well with us. We've always done best when a manager relaxes the players and allows them to express themselves. That's the biggest difference between Conte and Ange. Our transfer philosophy is aimed towards young prospects who need to be developed. So Ange is a better fit to develop them.

There's no one manager who works for everyone. Conte is a top manager but he's pretty old school with his methods. More teams struggle with that type of manager in this day and age. You have to be mentally strong to play his way and be in the right position at all times with him shouting orders. That's why generally the top teams do well with him because they have developed top class and world class players. It doesn't work with a club like us. That's not to say there's anything wrong with us or him, it just doesn't go well together.

 

[Styopa]

Conte has been successful when he’s managed the most or second most financed teams in the league. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is. That’s when he does well.

We can just agree that he was never going get that kind of situation at Tottenham. We actually spent a lot while he was here but we’re never going to be outspending the league - not under the current ownership.

In hindsight, after Poch we needed another Poch style manager but we spent a few years chasing some quick fixes and it backfired.

Now it’s painful because it feels like we have to start again. But what is the alternative?

To me it just seems like common sense to believe in what we have started with Ange and support him.