Great article on our tactics...

[tommyt]

That is half an hour of my life that I won't get back and I care not.

Great OP and great contributions.

The article is for me an affirmation of the great potential that we have as a team, if, our players play to their potential, especially our attack.

We can't afford the high quality finished player for several reasons (wages and fees), so in that respect we will be remain behind our rivals for a while (statistically more often than not??) , but when, as BC points out, we get the "perfect storm", or players play to their potential, we are a match for any team in the league.

Collective consistency is key.

 

[yankspurs]

Problem is our creative players are not as creative as we would like and our two CMs are too defensive

We need another eriksen clone who can play CM

Instead of an Eriksen clone maybe we could actully try Eriksen in the CM? Have him in the CM and Son on the left in the AM3?

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Instead of an Eriksen clone maybe we could actully try Eriksen in the CM? Have him in the CM and Son on the left in the AM3?

We could play Eriksen next to Wanyama instead of Dembele and instantly have more creativity in central midfield, we would be weaker defensively obviously but I think the trade-off might be worth it. The other option is to play Winks more but Poch may be a bit reluctant to do that at the moment.

For me we just don't create enough good chances, and although the article in the OP is a good one, this has been obvious to me for a long time. And not just under Poch either, in Bale's last season with us we also were barely able to create good chances and simply relied on him wacking them in from anywhere. Not sustainable.

 

[bubble07]

Instead of an Eriksen clone maybe we could actully try Eriksen in the CM? Have him in the CM and Son on the left in the AM3?

I dont think son is creative enough imo

 

[danielneeds]

I dont think son is creative enough imo

I don't think he has to be creative if we use him in the right way. I like him when he plays close to Kane. Almost like a split striker.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Finally an external source to make it kosher on SC to compare Pochettino-footie to AVB-footie.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I think it does a disservice to Poch to claim some of those things were just 'circumstance'. I doubt Kane's rise was simply a coincidence, nor was the improvement in Eriksen or Lamela's performances.

@Everlasting Seconds - so do you believe Poch has had no influence on these players?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

@Everlasting Seconds - so do you believe Poch has had no influence on these players?

A red mark often does point to "disagree". Maybe he improved Lamela. I can see that.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Maybe Lamela. I can see that.

No credit for Kane, who became one of the best strikers in the league under Pochettino?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

No credit for Kane, who became one of the best strikers in the league under Pochettino?

Bah, I don't know. He is very up and down, Kane, isn't he. And he excelled as rapidly under Timothy. Pochettino certainly didn't do any harm, I'll give him that.

Generally speaking, there is this notion still that Pochettino is some wizard who'll improve any one player. I think that's a myth. He does improve some players a lot, (Rose, obvisouly) and he does fail loads with others. Not saying I blame him, but I do blame fans who keep nagging on about his dream-like abilities when his coaching skills are those of a mortal man.

 

[dudu]

Bah, I don't know. He is very up and down, Kane, isn't he. And he excelled as rapidly under Timothy. Pochettino certainly didn't do any harm, I'll give him that.

Generally speaking, there is this notion still that Pochettino is some wizard who'll improve any one player. I think that's a myth. He does improve some players a lot, (Rose, obvisouly) and he does fail loads with others. Not saying I blame him, but I do blame fans who keep nagging on about his dream-like abilities when his coaching skills are those of a mortal man.

Ill take improving some players a lot - that is a huge thing to be able to do and while some people do over state how many people he does that for you are equally understating it.

Relatively speaking he is a cut above pretty much anyone we have had managing us in the last 20 years.

 

[lol]

splitting the centreback. is he talking about what dier did last season dropping back into a back 3?

 

[mattdefoe]

give him a truck load of money and wages and he wouldnt have to be so defensive , same goes for AVB.

 

[Shadydan]

The difference between him and AVB as managers is that Poch is more of a man manager and I'd argue that he has the ability to get players to believe in him and his philosophy.

He's more of a mental coach than AVB IMO.

 

[Charly***]

The difference between him and AVB as managers is that Poch is more of a man manager and I'd argue that he has the ability to get players to believe in him and his philosophy.

He's more of a mental coach than AVB IMO.

Agree with that entirely and it's a reflection of their respective personalities.

 

[faze_coys]

The stuff about how we would be defensively better if Wanyama could learn how to split the CB's as well as Dier did is fucking bollocks though. For a start, we are - fact - defensively better this season than we were last season - averaging 0.7 goals conceded per game this season, averaged 0.92 per game last season. And anyway, you don't credit Dier or criticise Wanyama for doing/not doing this, you credit or criticise Pochettino, because having worked with Wanyama previously and clearly wanting to sign him, he must know that he can get him to do such a basic tactical function if he wants him to, and I find it hard to believe that Wanyama could not perform such a function (I've seen him do it in games). So either Poch is giving him a slightly different remit, or he's continually picking him over Dier despite him not carrying out his instructed remit.

The point of splitting the CB's isn't just to be defensively better, its to give the team greater balance. Giving Walker and Rose freedom to attack is more beneficial than letting Wanyama do what he wants (which is join the attack in contrast to dier who will hold his position)

Id agree poch needs to set our holding player tactics more firmly, but i honestly think he hasnt realy instructed dier/wanyama with actually tactics other than telling them to be our DM/deepest midfielder...
Both of them have very different natural instincts though, Dier is all about positional discipline and will naturally drop in to spaces, Wanyama is a busy **** who will put out fires and support attacks when he can, which is why the team performs slightly different when each of them plays.

 

[ultimateloner]

For me the best line is about Poch/Simione thinking fball is about attrition.
Most competitive sports are about attrition; basketball/badminton/snooker what have you.
I could only think of one exception = American football, or lone sports like Swimming etc.

Essentially if it's about attrition then defence > attack because you last the grind better.

 

[DOX]

I'm not quite sure if this older article has been shared before, but it gives a rather interesting perspective on Poch; he is, indeed, hard to put a label on, as his tactics exists somewhere in between Pep, Bielsa, Simeone, AVB, and... none of them.

In other words, he is his own man!
http://theinsidechannel.com/a-guide-to-mauricio-pochettinos-tactics-at-totteham-hotspur/

 

[nicdic]

What about any stats from last season? Or did I miss those? Due to injuries we've been restricted with options that have seen us chop and change a lot more. Do last seasons stats not fit the desired outcome?

There are obviously similarities between AVB and Poch, but I think it's a stretch to say they are the same, or that's the closest link. There are similarities with Poch to lots of managers in different areas, but he is essentially his own man.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The point of splitting the CB's isn't just to be defensively better, its to give the team greater balance. Giving Walker and Rose freedom to attack is more beneficial than letting Wanyama do what he wants (which is join the attack in contrast to dier who will hold his position)

Id agree poch needs to set our holding player tactics more firmly, but i honestly think he hasnt realy instructed dier/wanyama with actually tactics other than telling them to be our DM/deepest midfielder...
Both of them have very different natural instincts though, Dier is all about positional discipline and will naturally drop in to spaces, Wanyama is a busy **** who will put out fires and support attacks when he can, which is why the team performs slightly different when each of them plays.

I didn't say that the only point of splitting the CB's is to make us defensively better, I argued that not doing it as much hasn't made us defensively worse, which is what the article suggested.

But for the record, our full backs are so far performing better creatively than they were last year with Dier "splitting" more:

And even missing Kane and Lamela for a huge chunk, we are averaging almost the same goals per game (1.7) and we were last season (1.8) overall.


Do really not believe that Pochettino coaches Dier and Wanyama every single day in how he wants them to play ? I don't believe for a second he just gives them carte blanche to play how the hell they like.

And I think there is a fine line between positional discipline and positional risk aversion and sticking to one's comfort zones. Personally I like a player with the energy, tenacity and bollocks to step outside that zone and still not be a compromise to the collective. At the moment, that is what we get with Wanyama over Dier.