Football fan abuse thread

[dontcallme]

It seems since the 60s hooliganism has been a major issue with football.

England were banned in the late 80s from European competition for several years. We certainly made steps forward from then but the issue will never be eradicated and we still have issues with racism and homophobia.

Fans arrested for 'unacceptable abuse'

Two Brighton fans and a Chelsea supporter are arrested for alleged "unacceptable abuse" during Wednesday's 1-1 draw at the Amex Stadium.

www.bbc.co.uk

3 fans were arrested in the Brighton vs Chelsea game for racist and homophobic abuse players and each other.

The Brighton chief of police has said if stadium bans aren’t effective then police prosecution will happen.

 

[Styopa]

It does seem that football encourages a herd mentality where behaviour deemed not acceptable in everyday life is given a pass by certain types of supporters. But in many ways the same goes for groups of people out on Saturday night. I suspect for a lot of people it's an act of escapism and they experience a great deal of camaraderie from engaging in elicit activities with like minded fellows.

 

[cider spurs]

Unfortunately some fans still mistake the fact that they are emotionally involved for the 90 minutes, for the belief they have a divine right to hurl unacceptable abuse if results or, certain decisions in game and all associated don't meet their expectations.

I mean, FFS, pisses me off when we lose, especially the manner we lose. But it's football, not going win every game, decisions not always going to go our way.

Take it for what it is. It's not hard if you've passed neanderthal man stage of your life.

 

[wirE]

Unfortunately some fans still mistake the fact that they are emotionally involved for the 90 minutes, for the belief they have a divine right to hurl unacceptable abuse if results or, certain decisions in game and all associated don't meet their expectations.

I mean, FFS, pisses me off when we lose, especially the manner we lose. But it's football, not going win every game, decisions not always going to go our way.

Take it for what it is. It's not hard if you've passed neanderthal man stage of your life.

It's a mentality passed down for generations. When your dad, brother or whatever keeps abusing the players, you also adapt to this mentality. I've been to a lot of games where a whole family is watching and abusing the opposite team's players. It's not gonna end imo....

 

[Donki]

I'm pretty sure if we are all being honest we have gave players abuse, even when sitting at home. "How did you miss that you donkey" or "diving bastard" etc, of course this isn't as bad as homophobic, sectarian or racial abuse but its still abuse. Football for what ever reason does stir up very tribal emotions that other sports don't seem to do.

 

[dontcallme]

I'm pretty sure if we are all being honest we have gave players abuse, even when sitting at home. "How did you miss that you donkey" or "diving bastard" etc, of course this isn't as bad as homophobic, sectarian or racial abuse but its still abuse. Football for what ever reason does stir up very tribal emotions that other sports don't seem to do.

Well yes but shouting in frustration at home is not remotely close to actually abusing a human being.

 

[Donki]

Well yes but shouting in frustration at home is not remotely close to actually abusing a human being.

Of course not but the sentiment is the same, I am not condoning this kind of thing in any shape or form but we have to acknowledge that the vast majority of us do participate in it. The names we call Arsenal fans, West Ham fans and Chelsea fans, while most of us wouldn't do it in a public place we still feel it. Fans of our rivals aren't all racist chavs or thick Pikey West Londoners and Wenger clearly wasn't a kiddy fiddler but a large proportion of our fans on a match day will still have that mentality.

 

[dontcallme]

Of course not but the sentiment is the same, I am not condoning this kind of thing in any shape or form but we have to acknowledge that the vast majority of us do participate in it. The names we call Arsenal fans, West Ham fans and Chelsea fans, while most of us wouldn't do it in a public place we still feel it. Fans of our rivals aren't all racist chavs or thick Pikey West Londoners and Wenger clearly wasn't a kiddy fiddler but a large proportion of our fans on a match day will still have that mentality.

I understand what you are saying but don't really see its relevance.

Growing up it was always pretty clear to me that there is a difference in what you say in privacy is not the same as what you say in public.

The point of the OP was about what to do about abuse. The Brighton chief of police has said if the football authorities are not punishing racist and homophobic abuse then legal prosecution will occur.

If someone is dumb enough to not understand that shouting abuse at a human being is not the same as screaming at your TV screen then I have no problem with them getting prosecuted. Hopefully it'll teach these morons that believe mob mentality and being passionate about the sport are not a defence.

 

[Donki]

I understand what you are saying but don't really see its relevance.

Growing up it was always pretty clear to me that there is a difference in what you say in privacy is not the same as what you say in public.

The point of the OP was about what to do about abuse. The Brighton chief of police has said if the football authorities are not punishing racist and homophobic abuse then legal prosecution will occur.

If someone is dumb enough to not understand that shouting abuse at a human being is not the same as screaming at your TV screen then I have no problem with them getting prosecuted. Hopefully it'll teach these morons that believe mob mentality and being passionate about the sport are not a defence.

Does he mean prosecuting the clubs or the fans? Surely they should be already holding any fan to account?

 

[OneHotspur1988]

Does he mean prosecuting the clubs or the fans? Surely they should be already holding any fan to account?

It's unclear, but you couldn't prosecute 30,000 singing about sol campbell being gay with 'hate speech', that would never work, you'd never get that cleared by CPS. They'd probably go for the clubs and try and fine them under some weird, hate group breeding ground law.

 

[mightyspur]

I still don't understand grown men giving other grown men the wanker sign

 

[Donki]

It's unclear, but you couldn't prosecute 30,000 singing about sol campbell being gay with 'hate speech', that would never work, you'd never get that cleared by CPS. They'd probably go for the clubs and try and fine them under some weird, hate group breeding ground law.

Agreed CPS wouldn't even open the file.

I still don't understand grown men giving other grown men the wanker sign

Never got it, I mean what guy doesn't like a sneaky WANK.

 

[riggi]

John terry called me a **** once. Good times.

 

[chrissivad]

John terry called me a **** once. Good times.

I can understand that

 

[Bulletspur]

It's a mentality passed down for generations. When your dad, brother or whatever keeps abusing the players, you also adapt to this mentality. I've been to a lot of games where a whole family is watching and abusing the opposite team's players. It's not gonna end imo....

Unfortunately I have to agree. As most of us agree its a society mindset and illness, where the main culprits demonstrate while attending matches. There is no re educating or anything like that as these people are stained for life.

 

[riggi]

I can understand that

As did I!

 

[King of Otters]

As a (perhaps unwelcome) counterpoint, I feel like we’re seeing middle class, university graduate woke culture being grafted on to a game which is still the reserve of the working class, at least in terms of non-London match going fans.

Terrace culture has always been crass and abusive. That doesn’t make it right, but the idea that it’s somehow getting worse is completely wrong imo. It’s just that’s it now being scrutinised in more detail than it ever was before.

The ‘Chelsea rent boys’ chant being classified as homophobic is an obvious example.

 

[whitesocks]

...

If someone is dumb enough to not understand that shouting abuse at a human being is not the same as screaming at your TV screen then I have no problem with them getting prosecuted. Hopefully it'll teach these morons that believe mob mentality and being passionate about the sport are not a defence.

What about at a theatre? That sheriff of Nottingham gets some right old abuse.
I'd argue once the players put that shirt on, they are playing a role. That's why they are allowed to tackle each other without it being labelled GBH. It's a show and there is a boundary between the performers and the audience. I think all fans understand that. The field is a safe space. And that is true for the crowd too. They are meant to react strongly. They are meant to be outraged. They are playing a role too.

If someone crosses those boundaries, then all bets are off. Like Cantona kung-fu kicking the Palace fans. Or say the guy who ran on the pitch to lamp lampard a few years ago. I can't think of an example but if someone abused a player in the street and they took offence. They should all absolutely be brought before the beaks, imo.

So for me, within reason, as long as we all stick to our roles, there is no criminal behaviour here. Society is not under threat. it is a case of what level of abuse is acceptable for the club - or rather the TV companies. And crowds usually are quite good at censoring individuals who will not shut up and have gone too far.
For me the media are blowing it up out of all proportion to distract from the genuinely menacing march the country as a whole is making to the far right. Achtung baby.

 

[dontcallme]

As a (perhaps unwelcome) counterpoint, I feel like we’re seeing middle class, university graduate woke culture being grafted on to a game which is still the reserve of the working class, at least in terms of non-London match going fans.

Terrace culture has always been crass and abusive. That doesn’t make it right, but the idea that it’s somehow getting worse is completely wrong imo. It’s just that’s it now being scrutinised in more detail than it ever was before.

The ‘Chelsea rent boys’ chant being classified as homophobic is an obvious example.

I don't think anyone is saying it's getting worse. What people are saying is it is not acceptable and needs to be dealt with.

I really hate the "working class" argument. No one regarding of wealth in the modern day can sing racist or homophobic songs with immunity. Certainly isn't going to be successfully defended via their class.

 

[dontcallme]

What about at a theatre? That sheriff of Nottingham gets some right old abuse.
I'd argue once the players put that shirt on, they are playing a role. That's why they are allowed to tackle each other without it being labelled GBH. It's a show and there is a boundary between the performers and the audience. I think all fans understand that. The field is a safe space. And that is true for the crowd too. They are meant to react strongly. They are meant to be outraged. They are playing a role too.

If someone crosses those boundaries, then all bets are off. Like Cantona kung-fu kicking the Palace fans. Or say the guy who ran on the pitch to lamp lampard a few years ago. I can't think of an example but if someone abused a player in the street and they took offence. They should all absolutely be brought before the beaks, imo.

So for me, within reason, as long as we all stick to our roles, there is no criminal behaviour here. Society is not under threat. it is a case of what level of abuse is acceptable for the club - or rather the TV companies. And crowds usually are quite good at censoring individuals who will not shut up and have gone too far.
For me the media are blowing it up out of all proportion to distract from the genuinely menacing march the country as a whole is making to the far right. Achtung baby.

Disagree that footballers are playing a role. Thinking a human being is allowed to be abused because they are playing football is one of the strangest opinions I have ever heard.

Actors are playing a role and bad guys will want to get booed. But if an actor of a different ethnicity is playing a bad guy I hardly think he would accept being racially abused by the crowd. Again a truly bizarre argument.