Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[IfiHadTheWings]

No but I'd argue our defensive options certainly are.

??? certainly a ringing endorsement of this current crop.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I don’t think there has been anything ridiculous in our exchange tbh mate.

Definitely not, I would kiss you if I could, same goes for @walworthyid but I think in general this thread has seen a ton of it.

Not that I mind at all, I love the back and forth, it allows me the opportunity to learn and/or to educate and there's no downside to that.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

I agree, but if we open up our play, the teams we play against will still continue to shred us on the counter. Look at Villa's goal for example, even when we are countered against these culprits shit the bed.

Don't even get me started on the howlers Lloris has been letting in more frequently this season.

Oh we will get shredded for sure but if we opened up early and played like we do when we we are behind in games we’d certainly be a tougher test than we are currently.

 

[Adam456]

Things were different in that Jose came in saying our squad was good and being mismanaged. Conte said it was miles behind and needed serious surgery. That said Jose did realise by his first Summer the side was not good enough in quality and he wasn't backed either.

As I keep saying Levy said the stadium would be the game changer, so what has changed?

I think the one thing that has changed is how we can *better* compete on wages. The sort of money the top guys are on was out of the question before. We still pay less than the rest of the big 6 but the gap has closed significantly and we blow the rest of the Prem and most European clubs away.

Not that I think stupid wages are good for the game or society in general (football is a working class game and the money average players make must be sickening to those on the breadline) but it is obviously near impossible to compete without

Indeed they have often blown up in the faces of those clubs - simply setting a player up for life virtually regardless of performance (e.g. Alexi Sanchez, Aubamayang, Ronaldo, for me the jury is out on whether Salah will be good value for his mega deal - he already seems to have dropped off)

 

[DiVaio]

We will have to agree to disagree. I really feel the SQUAD is bang average. Our strongest 11 is decent but I'm talking about the squad.

Our squad is maybe bang average but in comparison to other big 6 clubs, not Newcastle or Aston Villa, Brenford and the rest of clubs that have outperformed us in the last 3 months.
Last 10 PL games and our stats are basically the worst or close to being the worst since he came last november, so either way he's not doing the best in training or doesn't deserve backing because his transfers aren't making Spurs better team

 

[Yiddo1982]

The point is we go on about our club being all that, and yet there are numerous individuals that have won more in a 30 year career. We are a 2nd tier club with top tier facilities, and if we want to be competitive we need to change the way we operate from the top down.

I'm not going to get all argumentative over the number of trophies won etc but we are not an elite club and some fans need to get off their high horses and understand that.

Well, someone needs to tell Levy then because the club prices are not indicative of a second tier experience.

 

[Led Revolver]

Another part of this vicious cycle is that the players currently playing in the team know that they’re not seen as good enough from what the manager is implying, so know that he wants them replaced. Therefore there is no incentive for them on the pitch anymore as they know they won’t remain, whatever the result. I mean personal pride should count for something, but we know most of the time it doesn’t work like that.

I see performances/results going one way unless Conte is backed properly by the club.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Oh we will get shredded for sure but if we opened up early and played like we do when we we are behind in games we’d certainly be a tougher test than we are currently.

Mason tried the gungho (Spelling?) approach when he took over and it gave us mixed results with a very similar back line.

You put a De Vrij for example next to Romero, and we can play a lot more expansively. Add a Porro for the RWB position and the rest of the team stabilizes.

I think we are victims of the domino effect.

GK doesn't trust his defenders, midfield doesn't trust them either so play more safely and so on and we arrive at turgid because everyone is afraid of starting that domino effect.

 

[C-oops]

You mean the tune provided by the last year of Poch, Jose and Nuno? Smell the coffee

4 players that played yesterday were here under Poch.

 

[walworthyid]

Well, someone needs to tell Levy then because the club prices are not indicative of a second tier experience.

The performances certainly are second tier that's for sure!

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Mason tried the gungho (Spelling?) approach when he took over and it gave us mixed results with a very similar back line.

You put a De Vrij for example next to Romero, and we can play a lot more expansively. Add a Porro for the RWB position and the rest of the team stabilizes.

I think we are victims of the domino affect.

GK doesn't trust his defenders, midfield doesn't trust them either so play more safely and so on and we arrive at turgid because everyone is afraid of starting that domino effect.

Regardless of what side of the fence we sit on one thing is for sure, we need reinforcements and we need them fast.

 

[GlosYid]

Some of the revisionism of Arteta on here is proper weird.

 

[tottenhamlad]

For me it's a bit of both.

The sqaud is average. You only have to look at the options from the bench yesterday.

However we also have mismanagement of a player like Bissouma who was one of the best players in the prem in his position over the last few seasons. He is being made to play with shackles on in this rigid system. Its the same when we start losing and he finally let's bentancur be amazing.

I think we should back Conte though, he is a proven winner.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I think there is a grudging acceptance from our fan base that we are not going to be competitive enough for a serious challenge for title in the coming seasons, and if that is the case, and we're finishing in the top 6 at best, lets do it by playing some exciting, expansive and progressive football.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Regardless of what side of the fence we sit on one thing is for sure, we need reinforcements and we need them fast.

I think there are three major aspects in play

Conte is to blame for the rigidity of tactics and lack of flexibility
- the caveat being he doesn't have anyone to turn too. (Spence being the exception, or adding in another MF when we are outnumbered, that's on him.)

Squad as a whole is still lacking in the quality department, especially our CB's
- leaking so many goals has to fall on the defense in equally. Defense solidity starts at the back.
- we all know we still need a few reinforcements. RWB and CB is a must for January if you ask me.

Board/Levy getting involved when Conte was promised he would be left to his devices
- Why do we have Paratici if Levy is going to keep sticking his bald head into every decision?

There's obviously a bunch we can add but to me these are the three biggest problems we face that can actually be fixed in the short term.

 

[Joely]

No but I'd argue our defensive options certainly are.

Honestly, I Iook at the likes of Dier, Davies, Sanchez, Doherty, Royal and think are they actually any better than the likes of Vega, Nethercott, Calderwood, Thatcher from the grim days of the 90s. Genuinely don't think there is much in it.

 

[YB123]

Simple. Football is an entertainment business.

Either play decent football or win something. To do neither will create an angry fanbase. Boring football with a short term manager winning nothing then another rebuild is not acceptable.

Spurs fans should be prioritising winning something. 2 league cups in 30 odd years.

If we had won a few bits under Poch I would be on board with entertainment. Almost like the Chelski situation with Potter.

But if you are a spurs fans and would prefer nice football for the next few years over silverware at any costs, i'm sorry but its the reason the club has the mentality it does.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

For me it's a bit of both.

The sqaud is average. You only have to look at the options from the bench yesterday.

However we also have mismanagement of a player like Bissouma who was one of the best players in the prem in his position over the last few seasons. He is being made to play with shackles on in this rigid system. Its the same when we start losing and he finally let's bentancur be amazing.

I think we should back Conte though, he is a proven winner.

I think the whole Conte "Proven Winner" is wearing a little thin to be honest.

 

[walworthyid]

You can disregard the statistics all you want to fit your narrative, it doesn't make them any less true.

You know exactly what I am implying by bringing this up, and if you want to boil it down to performances and what you see with your eyes then be my guest.

I have never once said I am happy with how we are performing.

What I have done is back up everything I've said with undeniable statistics to show that even though it is bad, we have STILL MANAGED TO GET ENOUGH RESULTS TO KEEP US IN CONTENTION.

If you're happy with blaming Conte, not seeing the facts for what they are and having a more balanced outlook on the matter then that's up to you.

Look, I'm being a bit flippant at times but ultimately while I understand what you are saying I fundamentally disagree. I'm a logic driven person but recognise the limitations of statistics in analysing anything. There was a season about 6 years ago where we had achieved the most points in a calendar year. Yet won nothing. Arsenal won the FA Cup and Chelsea won the league. Statistically we were the best team in the league in several metrics. Best away record, least home defeats, most possession away from home, most kilometres run during matches. But we won nothing. We also didn't go on to win anything.

The season of the champions league final we were pretty poor. Again, the stats supported that conclusion, yet, we achieved amazing things and but for a ridiculous refereeing decision we may well have achieved the greatest prize in club football! One more stat from that match, Liverpool had 32% possession which I am pretty sure is the lowest they have had in any match for over a decade!

Unfortunately, the stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I think there is a grudging acceptance from our fan base that we are not going to be competitive enough for a serious challenge for title in the coming seasons, and if that is the case, and we're finishing in the top 6 at best, lets do it by playing some exciting, expansive and progressive football.

We won't have Kane and Son to stick around for this though, and that pretty much signals the end of our chances of competing, bar a miracle, for the foreseeable future.