Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[brasil_spur]

Completely bang on.

It's not IMO. There's no way to justify the use of the word "appalling" for our first half display. I mean shit you can all it whatever you want, but you need to be able to justify it and that's simply not possible in this case.

This over the top language is what's adding to the negativity at the moment, which is spilling into the stands. It's not helpful or productive, especially when it's not deserved, which in this case it's not.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Are we just using "entitled" when we actually mean "has a different opinion to me" now? I'm seeing it thrown around a lot

It’s more pointing out an attitude problem rather than a difference of opinion, so I have no idea how you made that connection.

 

[brasil_spur]

Is it entitled to want/expect to continue improve from how we ended last season? Or to be critical that we haven't?

To expect to improve from the end of last season - yes that's pretty entitled. It was always going to be the case that with the manic fixture period in the first half of this season that it would be very difficult to keep up that kind of momentum. That being said we are going into the winter break in 4th spot and the last 16 of the CL (having finished top of the group). For me that's what the expectation should have been. Has the football been off form at times - sure, that's a little underwhelming. But to expect better than what we've achieved so far is unrealistic and definitely a bit entitled.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

You saw the first half as ok, others saw it as poor. Why is your analysis any more "right" or objective than any other? Yes 35% possession is how we play, and a lot of people will always have a problem with it whether they get used to it or not. Most people will agree the second half was a lot better and expect THAT to be the way we try to play. On that basis, it's a perfectly valid opinion to consider the first half to be below standard.

I think he means the extreme end of the negative spectrum by saying appalling instead of just below standard which wouldn’t seem as harsh of a description.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

It's not IMO. There's no way to justify the use of the word "appalling" for our first half display. I mean shit you can all it whatever you want, but you need to be able to justify it and that's simply not possible in this case.

This over the top language is what's adding to the negativity at the moment, which is spilling into the stands. It's not helpful or productive, especially when it's not deserved, which in this case it's not.

I think we have to be very careful when we talk in extremes, and I’m guilty of it too so I should probably take my own advice here.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Again the first half wasn't that good, and it certainly was worse than the second half. But the words being used here are "appalling" - the first half was not appalling by any standard.

If you want to call the first half below par or not very good, then that's fine, as both are fairly accurate, but over dramatising the performance using inflammatory vocabulary means you will get called out on it.

Ok sorry mate next time I describe a performance i'll make sure to double check the adjective with you first to make sure you approve

The game is about opinions, i'll describe the performance as I like thanks

I've already explained why I felt it was an 'appalling' 1st half based on how out of sorts Liverpool were, the fact we let them impose themselves from minute 1 when we were the home team, we gifted them 2 goals and only had 2 shots vs their 7 and we were 0-2 down by HT and the game was all but over, but if you saw it as 'below par' or 'not very good' then fantastic stuff maybe I have higher expectations than you no biggie, on with our days.

 

[easley91]

Is it entitled to want/expect to continue improve from how we ended last season? Or to be critical that we haven't?

Being critical is one thing. Having a ridiculous amount of hatred for certain players, wanting the manager gone and booing at games in the first half or at half-time is another.

I want us to improve our first half performances, but I recognise that it is a process and we have gone through a rough patch with the fixture congestion and injuries. I actually listen to the manager and players when they say it is taking time and how we start games isn't how they set out.

We have actually continued to improve in regards to results though haven't we? We're top 4 currently and topped our UCL group. That is NOTHING to be sniffed at. Now if we start games how we generally finish them, that gives me hope for what Conte can achieve here.

Expecting things to improve overnight while ignoring what you are being told by those at the club is most certainly entitled.

 

[brasil_spur]

I think he means the extreme end of the negative spectrum by saying appalling instead of just below standard which wouldn’t seem as harsh of a description.

This - there's a massive difference between "below par" and "appalling".

 

[brasil_spur]

Ok sorry mate next time I describe a performance i'll make sure to double check the adjective with you first to make sure you approve

The game is about opinions, i'll describe the performance as I like thanks

I've already explained why I felt it was an 'appalling' 1st half based on how out of sorts Liverpool were, the fact we let them impose themselves from minute 1 when we were the home team, we gifted them 2 goals and only had 2 shots vs their 7 and we were 0-2 down by HT and the game was all but over, but if you saw it as 'below par' or 'not very good' then fantastic stuff maybe I have higher expectations than you no biggie, on with our days.

Don't need to check anything, but again objectively, based on actual football experts' opinions, we were not appalling in the first half.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but those opinions can also be wrong. Also when those opinions are wrong and inflammatory then it makes sense for people to call other people out on it.

I actually saw the first half as quite positive, aside from the two stupid goals, but I understand there's a range of opinions that are valid and i'm likely at the top end of that range. That being said I find myself in good company with the likes of Ally G on this point.

 

[soup]

Being a Spurs fan from Kent I spent most of my teens with Manchester United fans and believe me, what is going on with Spurs is never expectation or entitlement, it’s more just ‘hope’.

I don’t think hardly any of us expect ever- improving performances or winning trophies as it’s not in our football conditioning, we but merely ‘hope’ that will be the case with the tools at our disposal.

Conte gives us more hope than most, and with that hope comes an amount of expectation. When Conte was hired I’m sure we all ‘expected’ he’d do a better job than he recent predecessors due to his pedigree but nothing was or ever is guaranteed.

Hope is all we all have tbh.

 

[brasil_spur]

I think we have to be very careful when we talk in extremes, and I’m guilty of it too so I should probably take my own advice here.

It's why the match day thread is a fucking shite hole, for the most part. But three days later and fans should have had the time to think about to talk about the Liverpool game with less emotion. If after three days you watch that first half and call it appalling then it's definitely an extreme choice of words. Again if this was just contained to this thread I wouldn't be too bothered, but I feel too much of this over-reaction of emotions is pouring into the stands which is vastly unhelpful, at a time where we're doing well on all fronts and on the cusp becoming a proper team again, the likes of which we haven't really seen for over 3 years.

 

[brasil_spur]

Being a Spurs fan from Kent I spent most of my teens with Manchester United fans and believe me, what is going on with Spurs is never expectation or entitlement, it’s more just ‘hope’.

I don’t think hardly any of us expect ever- improving performances or winning trophies as it’s not in our football conditioning, we but merely ‘hope’ that will be the case with the tools at our disposal.

Conte gives us more hope than most, and with that hope comes an amount of expectation. When Conte was hired I’m sure we all ‘expected’ he’d do a better job than he recent predecessors due to his pedigree but nothing was or ever is guaranteed.

Hope is all we all have tbh.

Yeh this is a good way of looking at it, and had we been dumped out of the CL (or any cup) and/or been far adrift of the top 4 spots in the PL then I would understand some of the reactions here. Unfortunately, I just really don't get the over-reactions many people are having right now, especially as we will in all likelihood be knocked out of a cup of two at some point in the coming months - at that point god help those fans from having a proper meltdown.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Being critical is one thing. Having a ridiculous amount of hatred for certain players, wanting the manager gone and booing at games in the first half or at half-time is another.

I want us to improve our first half performances, but I recognise that it is a process and we have gone through a rough patch with the fixture congestion and injuries. I actually listen to the manager and players when they say it is taking time and how we start games isn't how they set out.

We have actually continued to improve in regards to results though haven't we? We're top 4 currently and topped our UCL group. That is NOTHING to be sniffed at. Now if we start games how we generally finish them, that gives me hope for what Conte can achieve here.

Expecting things to improve overnight while ignoring what you are being told by those at the club is most certainly entitled.

You're correct with your post mate although @PeeEyeEmPee hasn't been doing the above, unless you were talking generally about some fans becoming entitled which yes I believe some of our fanbase have become more so unfortunately, however I think the booing at games is a culmination of the last 3 years of style of play rather than being entitled. The expecting immediate success and winning every game and wanting Conte gone are all either entitled or deluded but the frustration at some of the poorer performances I believe is a build-up of having to endure some pretty dire football for a good few years now so patience is running thin with some of our fans, sprinkle in some uncertainty regarding Conte's future and Arsenal and Newcastle doing well this season and in Arsenal's case playing some good football then its a bit of a pressurecooker at the moment at times in the ground and on here.

Deep breath everyone, it'll all be ok.

 

[mil1lion]

I

How long has the Spurs admin been doing this?

View attachment 118900

I think I saw one similar a few weeks ago. At least its not

Brighton
Oslo
Osmaniye
Okara
Ooty
Olongapo
Osan
Osaka

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

There now follows a shitload of lists the first letters of which make up a different word

Sigh

 

[soup]

‘Sigh’.

A&C swooning at us and our collective footballing intelligence again I see.?

 

[brasil_spur]

You're correct with your post mate although @PeeEyeEmPee hasn't been doing the above, unless you were talking generally about some fans becoming entitled which yes I believe some of our fanbase have become more so unfortunately, however I think the booing at games is a culmination of the last 3 years of style of play rather than being entitled. The expecting immediate success and winning every game and wanting Conte gone are all either entitled or deluded but the frustration at some of the poorer performances I believe is a build-up of having to endure some pretty dire football for a good few years now so patience is running thin with some of our fans, sprinkle in some uncertainty regarding Conte's future and Arsenal and Newcastle doing well this season and in Arsenal's case playing some good football then its a bit of a pressurecooker at the moment at times in the ground and on here.

Deep breath everyone, it'll all be ok.

Agreed to an extend and deep breaths all around is a good bit of advice that i'll also take on board.

The thing about Arsenal confuses the living shit out of me. If anyone is looking at Arsenal then clearly the thing to do is back the manager for a couple of seasons, not get on the back of the team by booing at every possible chance. What really worries me is what would be going on right now if weren't in the top 4 and last 16?

 

[TOLBINY]

What is inhibiting the players so often in the first half? Is it the Conte "if you cannot win make sure you don't lose" philosophy?

Judging by the way they have performed in a lot of games in the second half (although by no means all, I accept) it leads me to conclude that the first half no-show is a mindset issue - could be individually as well - a few players are concerned about 'not losing', some are concerned about the player / team they are up against, some maybe have self-doubts about their ability to consistently perform well at the required (Conte) level, some lack confidence in those around them.

It is interesting that when you are a goal or two down and as a player you then focus on getting back into the game (rather than your concerns / doubts) your performance improves.

 

[easley91]

You're correct with your post mate although @PeeEyeEmPee hasn't been doing the above, unless you were talking generally about some fans becoming entitled which yes I believe some of our fanbase have become more so unfortunately, however I think the booing at games is a culmination of the last 3 years of style of play rather than being entitled. The expecting immediate success and winning every game and wanting Conte gone are all either entitled or deluded but the frustration at some of the poorer performances I believe is a build-up of having to endure some pretty dire football for a good few years now so patience is running thin with some of our fans, sprinkle in some uncertainty regarding Conte's future and Arsenal and Newcastle doing well this season and in Arsenal's case playing some good football then its a bit of a pressurecooker at the moment at times in the ground and on here.

Deep breath everyone, it'll all be ok.

I wasn't talking about him, even if I do disagree with him at times. I am on about the fanbase in general. That's here, at games and on social media. It has become insanely toxic for no reason whatsoever. We're not struggling in mid table. We're actually doing better in the league than Liverpool by quite some distance. Now if we were them I could understand it.

I could care less about Arsenal and Newcastle. It's November. It's too early to worry about how other teams are doing. They could fall, we could improve in our general play. Nobody knows how it will pan out.

As for Conte, until there is an official statement about him leaving there is no point worrying about it is there? He constantly talks about multiple transfer windows, surely that is a good sign in respect to him staying, no?

People are choosing what to focus on and what to ignore. More and more seem to want to focus on the negative (that is their prerogative), but some of us would like to focus on the positives.

The pretty dire football before Conte has no bearing on what is happening now. Conte has said multiple times it is a work in progress. If you choose to ignore that and marry it up with ex managers and how they did that's your problem. I, for one, am choosing to see that what we saw back end of last season is the end game in terms of performances. Now for this season so far, we are going round and round in circles discussing the first halves of games. It has been repeated so many times that is not how we are setting up to start games. We have had multiple injuries, new players struggling to adapt and a tightly packed fixture schedule which comes to an end on Saturday 5pm.

I am as frustrated as anyone with regards to these first halves and giving teams leads, but this is Conte's first full season in charge. It takes time and patience. If we were losing these games and were lower in the table I could see why people are booing etc. But we're top 4 while playing badly or are "appalling". That is a positive sign for me, because if/when we click from kick off we will be scary for opposition.

People hate the word, but PATIENCE is what we all need to have at the moment.

Now I have repeated myself over and over regarding these topics and said my peace, so I am stopping here.

 

[jpascavitz]

It's a very vocal minority though. Vocal enough that even Kane has spoken about it now and others are now realising what I have seen for a while. This fanbase has become toxic and I can't even fathom a legitimate reason as to why?

I see so much hatred towards our own players. Many commented on Richarlison's world cup announcement video on twitter by mentioning Emerson. Yes they made it about another player and his apparent lack of ability.

The booing at half time is utterly ridiculous and redundant. You're there to support the team, not get on their backs.

I'm sorry but this fanbase is getting ridiculous these days. They refuse to listen to what Conte says and instead say "you can't always believe what he says". They don't like when he starts certain players, even if he gives them justifiable reason to such as injuries or they're not up to scratch tactically at the moment, they forget we're now at the end of a packed first half of the season where we are top 4 and topped our UCL group. They bemoan the lineup and write off games before they even start. They write off signings before they have played.

This is an over the top entitled fanbase now. Hate to say it. But it is.

Totally agreed and well said. I've cut way back on here and on Twitter. I used to love it as I'm an American in an area where we're lucky enough to have a supporters group, albeit not a massive one. These were places where I could come on and see great analysis and discusses hyperfocused on the club/squad I care about most. Interesting insights on transfer targets, player data, and tactic analysis.

Now it's just a shouting match to the 100th degree, with zero patience and a win-now, shift players out now, get new ones in now attitude.

Since I've taken a step back I've been able to enjoy matches so much more, I even got to the new stadium for the first time as my previous plans were scraped due to Covid. I've been able to see a squad that was deemed and labeled as useless get coached into the Champions League this season. Followed up by a current top 4 position and UCL knockout stage progression!

Sure I miss talking about Spurs as much online with like minded people, but I'm so much calmer, and able to just take in everything: the good, the bad, the ugly, and better off just support the club.