Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Ginola+Tonic]

If we'd shown something vs Milan who were VERY betable, we'd basically be a good game vs napoli off being in CL final.
The margins are finer than we realize. The brining negativity and me me me me me are a problem I'm just fed up with.

This is very true if you completely ignore the semi final after Napoli

 

[slartibartfast]

I completely agree but we were never, ever going to put our foot on the gas in that instance. It's like when prior to big games people say that we'll surely come out fast attacking from the off. Never gonna happen. I just don't think (for the most part, still hard to explain 2nd halves of games) that Conte instructs us to change the tempo of our play, regardless of the circumstance. We always look to try and build in the same way and in a way that isn't greatly effective.

Even when Saints had two CB's taken off, I knew it would barely impact the way we would perform. I used to look so closely at oppositions teams and see who they're missing to assess where we may have an advantage but I feel that our approach is so reactive, defensive in nature, however you want to put it, that it doesn't matter near as much as it should.

Bang in. If Southampton had played Arsenal today and lost both CBs they'd have been bombarded and thrashed. We still play walking football.
As Dublin said on Motd, thats gotta be down to the coach, players arent just doing that on their own.

 

[DenverSpur]

The board/Levy need to change/improve as does their football strategy for sure but I don’t agree that no manager can do well under our current model especially as we’ve started to spend more money since the stadium opened, Jol, Redknapp and Poch all did very well all things considered and the right fit of manager can do well for us again.

The issue is that Jose, Nuno and Conte all play the same style and are all quite negative characters, I just don’t think they suit a club like us at all and so yes if we hire another manager in their ilk like a Simione for example and play yet more turgid defensive football then I think we will get more of the same but if we bring Poch back or get L.Enrique or De Zerbi or Kompany or possibly Tuchel etc then I think with momentum from the crowd and the right style to fit the players and club I think we can win, we’ve been very very close under Poch and if he’d had the budget Conte has had I think he’d have won us a trophy 100%.

Next managerial appointment is crucial that it’s the right fit, no more negativity no more boring Football, the players and fans need a lift and something to get excited about and believe in.

The point is the next manager has to be given what he asks for not club buys. It’s ridiculous to hire an expert in his field and then tell him you know better than him what he needs.

 

[jolsnogross]

That was atrocious again and it was pretty poor at 3-1, let alone at 3-3. The manager needs to go asap because we've been playing trundle ball all season and he's instilled that. He's also correct that the loser mentality at the club is something to behold.

But a good manager can make a difference and Conte is a cheque-book manager. He's failed and his team play rubbish football. And it's still hilarious that people thought Poch was underperforming at this club. What a fucking laugh. And then we go from those historic highs to Jose ball and Conte ball, sitting back, no urgency, always seeking the illusion on 'control'.

I hope we don't get 4th place at this point. We stink out the Champions League in our current guise and it's pointless qualifying for it if we're just going to play containment football at 1-0 down as we did against Milan.

The manager needs to go - the sooner the better. I'd ditch Paratici too since he's got no discernable system he's trying to implement. If Harry Kane is still here next season it'll say a lot about his competitive spirit and common sense. And if Levy would recognise what a failure he is and fuck off so a new chairman could lead Enic/Spurs, that would be mighty.

 

[slartibartfast]

The point is the next manager has to be given what he asks for not club buys. It’s ridiculous to hire an expert in his field and then tell him you know better than him what he needs.

AG made me laugh this week. He likened it to that Fast Show character from years back who goes out to buy his Wife something she asked for and he comes back with something completely different.
This is Levy through and through.

 

[spurs-r-us]

Are the usual suspects still defending Antonio after his comments? One can only hope they stop supporting this club and follow the great Antonio wherever he goes.

 

[DenverSpur]

We just threw away a two goal lead against the worst side in the league.

Yes but the manager wasn’t on the pitch was he. The players are highly paid professionals playing at the top level so I think it’s reasonable to expect them to work out how best to protect a 2 goal lead with 15 minutes to go against the worst side in the league. Time and time again they are let off the hook.

 

[ultimateloner]

Nah i don't really buy that. Apart from when Conte was quite clearly very unwell, he's been extremely passionate and vocal on the touchline, even today, he was back to his old self shouting and screaming to the players.

I'm not sure how he could, as a manager, try to inspire the players much more with how he behaves on the touchline in general.

You got to remember, Conte is an elite manager, same with Jose, they aren't going to except "Ok", as much as they might be in it for themselves, it doesn't benefit them unless the team performs well on the pitch either.

Conte wants nothing less than winning, he's calling out the board and the players because it's not just his fault, simple as.

I dont value his displays of passion on the touchline personally, so I don't read into it. There are many ways to display passion and they are all equally legit. While I wont go so far as to say that he fakes this passion, I also won't be surprised if there is an element of theatre in this because it adds to his persona and marketability, in a similar mould to Mourinho.

I dont know how he can inspire the players. I think inspiration needs to be done behind the scenes and in training, on a personal basis. But I don't know. I'm not a leader.

It is because Conte's an elite manager that I expect him to have better control of himself. What does calling out the players actually achieve for the squad? At best some kind of self-reflection on the player's part but results have been inconsistent for sometime now and the trend is worsening. There is an underlying problem that wont be solved by finger-pointing.

This is why it's difficult for me to see this presser as anything more than blame deflection, in a way that resonates with the fans. What he has said we already know.

I wish Conte had said what you think he had said (that it's not just his fault). However in the interview he seems to me that he is distancing himself from the players. He didn't own up to anything.

 

[spurs-r-us]

The point is the next manager has to be given what he asks for not club buys. It’s ridiculous to hire an expert in his field and then tell him you know better than him what he needs.

The. Manager. Is. Not. A. Recruitment. Expert.

This is why we hired the fucking DoF. And now he's shite because the players he signed, for the man he spent years working for, are no good.

 

[DenverSpur]

His comments about the same players etc are laughable.

Forster; Romero, Dier, Lenglet; Porro, Hojbjerg, Skipp, Davies; Deki, Kane, Son

And Davies went off for Perisic, a Conte signing

4 players from Poch squad, 5 from Mourinho. Of those players 2 are Kane and Son.

So either he is blaming Son and Kane or he is placing all the blame on Davies, Dier or Hojbjerg.


He is just ranting to deflect blame and get himself sacked and he needs to go now.

Twice in the first half Kane had the chance to play in others in better positions to score but he chose to shoot. That’s not team play.

 

[chrisd2k]

It’s actually sad how people still don’t realise the root cause of all this.

Two serial winners in Conte & Jose, have now both now failed, & it all points back to the same person …

Who doesn't? 90% on this board do I reckon. We are going down the same old who's to blame Levy or Conte debate, when clearly it's both.

Don't tell me Contes tactics are great and it's just the players. I know 2/3 need to go, but they are still good enough to be doing better. The fact Conte hasnt even thought about changing tactics or personnel unless forced tells me all I need to know.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Who doesn't? 90% on this board do I reckon. We are going down the same old who's to blame Levy or Conte debate, when clearly it's both.

Don't tell me Contes tactics are great and it's just the players. I know 2/3 need to go, but they are still good enough to be doing better. The fact Conte hasnt even thought about changing tactics or personnel unless forced tells me all I need to know.

Both are to blame but Levy will always outlast any manager, & there lies the issue.

We’ll likely be in the same situation with the next manager, who hasn’t had a proper rebuild.

Conte needs to go for sure, but ultimately whoever the next coach is, they need serious help.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

everybody knows the club is to blame for a lot of issues, even deep down Levy knows this.

but to come out after you've conceded more possession, shots, passes to the worst team in the league and attack the club like it's the history of the club's fault your system is shit is just a lack of self awareness

I'd have had much more respect for him if he'd done this from a position of power.
If the club hadn't got in who he wanted just fucking say it, he's got the reputation to back it up. Moaning about Spence being a club signing was dipping his toe in the water he should have gone for it if he knew the ending

 

[rossdapep]

I was wondering the same and thought the only person who looked any bit selfish with the ball was Kane and I very much doubt he was referring to him. Maybe he doesn't mean selfish in such a case specific sense. Actually I just checked the quotes and to me it sounds like he's referring to more off the ball moments, like maybe players not moving to support others, track back, cover etc.

Yeah you could be right

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I backed and defended him for 18+ years, I then witnessed quite closely the aftermath of what followed sacking Jose 6 days before a cup final. I then backed him again when he appointed FP and Conte and said he was stepping back on the football decisions, and I then had a birdseye view of him buying Djed Spence despite Conte not wanting him, and he did exactly the same in the following window with Danjuma.

Despite all this(plus other bits) I still defend him to this day when people criticise the length of time or money that was spent on the stadium and training facilities because quite frankly they are the envy of every club in Europe. I'd go as far as to say I've been both highly critical and also given him masses amounts of praise. I couldn't be more objective imo.

One of the things I can never get head round with Levy he's clearly a very strategic, analytical person, you couldn't achieve what he has without beingthat way. Every owner makes mistakes but he now has 20 years of his failings and successes laid out in front of him when it comes to manager and player recruitment and yet he still rolls out the same issues. He has a blind spot

 

[ajspurs]

Bang in. If Southampton had played Arsenal today and lost both CBs they'd have been bombarded and thrashed. We still play walking football.
As Dublin said on Motd, thats gotta be down to the coach, players arent just doing that on their own.

Yep. No matter who is in front of us, bottom of the league, Championship, League 1, 10 men, 9 men, we'll still approach every game the same no matter how 'inferior' the opposition is. Slowly building from the back, playing walking football as you say, no tempo, no creativity, infrequent and inconsistent pressing etc. It just makes any game potentially difficult. Leicester, Milan, Wolves, Saints were all shit yet we were beaten by three of them and held by the other.

 

[mill]

He is a great manager when he can sign his players and spend to his hearts content. Remember, this is a manager who threw a tantrum after he won the title with Chelsea and still wanted more players. He is a sugar daddy manager, not a real world club manager, which is why he won't succeed with us.

He will never succeed with Levy or any owner unless he had £250m every transfer window

Could say the same if pep managed us

 

[chrisd2k]

Both are to blame but Levy will always outlast any manager, & there lies the issue.

We’ll likely be in the same situation with the next manager, who hasn’t had a proper rebuild.

Conte needs to go for sure, but ultimately whoever the next coach is, they need serious help.

Yes and the vast majority know that. So what so sad?

Conte isn't in the same league as a serial winner btw. Jose won everything everywhere but the game has moved on and left him behind. That was plain to see except Levy had a hard on for him.

All his success was in Italy which lets be honest isn't the greatest league in the world, and 90% of that was achieved with the very dominant Juventus.

He won the league and FA Cup with Chelsea sure, but a lot of average managers have achieved similar over there.

Now I'm not saying he's a bad manager, it's not always black or white, but from what I have seen of his tactics here, the EPL at least has moved on from when he last won here.

Oh and just because I'm criticising Conte that doesn't mean I'm defending Levy, as seems to be the merry go round this thread goes in. He needs to go, in fact all involvement in Enic needs to go probably, but unfortunately nobody wants to pay the money it would take, and thats before we have the age old fit and proper person argument etc.

 

[piedpiper]

Are being deliberately obtuse or are you just slow in general?

It's clearly Both for me.

 

[mil1lion]

We need a manager to build the mentality of the team up. We have plenty of young talent who just need direction. We're never signing a team who already have that mentality. This is what Conte needs so it's the wrong club for him. The big spenders sign players when they're already top players. It's not what we do as a club. We also need to play attacking football. Conte wants a team that can get a goal up and then defend to the death. Again we don't have the players to do that and won't sign them. I'm glad Conte has called the club out as it's necessary. However we still need a change of manager and hopefully the words from Conte light a fire under the players to want to prove him wrong under the next manager.