Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Hawkey77]

Mentality has for a long time been an issue at this club. A long long time.

Some of them have the mentality of less than a cream cracker.

Like you say, they're not going to succeed under Conte if he's not going to relieve the pressure, but the arm round the shoulder approach from Poch didn't work either in some of these matches or big moments. So my opinion is they'll never have it and need to be replaced, regardless of who the coach is.

I almost totally agree, the one niggle I have is that with Poch we failed at the final (ish) hurdle often, which could be argued is a slightly different issue. Perhaps qualify, perhaps tactical, perhaps mental.
These days were not even getting close to that!

 

[mil1lion]

If, and it's a massive if, we sign the right players for the 1st team it would be good for him to stay. However fail to deliver yet again and we're just having the same issue next season. Conte complaining about his squad and when rotated for the cups we go out. Trouble with that is we need the decision made before the window opens ideally. We can't wait until we complete the signings first and then for him to sign once he's happy. Otherwise if he leaves we have a new manager come in too late. I can't even see assurances being enough for Conte, we need action. We would need a couple big signings made early really to convince him I think. I wonder if there's a deadline for this decision to be made. This is the main issue with Conte probably wanting big signings made not promised and Levy wanting to get away with supplying him the bare minimum again.

 

[RuskyM]

League Cup 2022: Pathetic semi-final show against Chelsea.
FA Cup 2022: Second division side knocks us out.
League Cup 2023: First team can't lay a glove on Nottingham Forest.
FA Cup 2023: Second string second division side knocks us out.
Champion's League 2023: Barely muster an attempt in two games against a proper ropey Milan side.

That's the serial winner we've been promised? His performance hasn't warranted a new contract, not to mention that the past few weeks have been downright disgraceful: both on the pitch and off it. He will never have "the right players" because no "right player" would make his retrograde football either watchable or successful. I don't want him near us next season.

 

[wadewill]

I don't want to go through this anymore, this club has been so unstable for years. Kane, Managers, Owners, non stop will we wont we and every time (apart from keeping Kane) we have made the wrong decision.

We need a clean slate and some direction.

There is no way Conte gives us that, but there is also no way the board do anything mildly competent as far as getting the right person in and making sure they are in for Day 1 of pre season.

 

[Japhet]

But how many times have we seen it over the years at Spurs? It's not a new thing isolated to Conte. We had it under Jose, Poch, Redknapp, AVB, Jol. I could go on here.

Players thinking they can just turn up to these games and win at a stroll. Its not down to management and leadership, its down to application on the pitch. There's only so much a manager can do before they go out on the pitch. If they don't have the motivation for a cold night at a lower league team then its on them.

I think it's lack of competition for places, not helped by the fact Conte picks the exact same lineup whenever he can. They get complacent, and when others do get given the nod, they are stone cold and nowhere near match fit. Use of subs has been a big issue for me and I really see no point whatsoever in regularly giving fringe players 90 seconds at the end of a match. Perhaps if players were given some decent opportunities they wouldn't be so out of form when they do get a chance.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

we're not gonna be successful in the cups with him as he can't manage a team with two games a week esp with CL football, as we have to play our best team in the week and at weekends to challenge for the league as he wants to, our squad isn't storng enought to rest the better players and stay competitive unfortunately

 

[Trix]

Well then we're naffed if he stays aren't we having spent the best part of 90 million on Richarlison and Bissouma.

He was happy with Richarlison

Mods we need the optimistic rating back. Even if that were true about the Keeper and CBs we’d still have the feckless insipid chance creation issues. And we’d still be playing wingbacks and 2 CMs which has been overrun by literally every good midfield we’ve played this season.

What makes you think Conte, Paratici, and Levy are on the same page transfer wise anyways?

We spunked £100m this summer on Spence (loaned out, didn’t even start one bloody match), Bissouma (feck knows where he fits into Conte’s system, injured), and Richarlison (clearly better than Son this year, given almost no chances to prove it)… and then the anonymous Danjuma who may as well not exist in Conte’s eyes.

Yes but he turned down Maddison not because he doesn't think he's a good player, but because it's not the right fit for his system. Now we can go back and forth on the fact (and I agree it is a fact) he is pretty inflexible and only wants to play one way, but we knew that prior to him coming. So what's the point of not getting players to fit that very inflexible system. Now you can say, "well because when he leaves we are stuck with players that only suit one system"(and I again I agree) so why appoint him in the first place if this is was ever a concern?

It all boils down to this. Win now managers aren't interested in changing what has seen success after success for over a decade. he got what he wanted in his first January window and we saw immediate success with both players, since then it's been very hit and miss(more miss than hit) as far as getting him what he's specifically asked for, and that's not much use to him. We did the same with Jose, and in fact go back as far as Jol and Harry and you'll find comments of them saying they asked for a certain player and got something completely different with very little consultation on the matter.

 

[DJS]

If we can go on a run from here then I'm still all for Conte staying.

Only concern is this 3-4-3 system where we keep getting dominated in the middle.

It may be though that with someone like Usogwie on left proving more strength than Perisic, as Davies has also done, that we’ll be less light weight?

Having Richarlison also helps as he works his socks off.

But a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 may prove to still be more competitive in league.

 

[spurs mental]

I think it's lack of competition for places, not helped by the fact Conte picks the exact same lineup whenever he can. They get complacent, and when others do get given the nod, they are stone cold and nowhere near match fit. Use of subs has been a big issue for me and I really see no point whatsoever in regularly giving fringe players 90 seconds at the end of a match. Perhaps if players were given some decent opportunities they wouldn't be so out of form when they do get a chance.

Don't disagree on this. The use of subs and rotation after what I thought was a good summer window has been disappointing. Its been an issue for as long as I can remember though, before Poch that managers, unless their hand is forced, haven't been able to trust the fringe players or rotation players because they haven't been good enough.

I don't think that works for some of the players we have on the bench now, IE Richarlison, Bissouma are two I would expect to push on under him this season.

We've still seen the likes of Sanchez fluff it under plenty even when he's had game time though, Lucas is a lost cause.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

But how many times have we seen it over the years at Spurs? It's not a new thing isolated to Conte. We had it under Jose, Poch, Redknapp, AVB, Jol. I could go on here.

Players thinking they can just turn up to these games and win at a stroll. Its not down to management and leadership, its down to application on the pitch. There's only so much a manager can do before they go out on the pitch. If they don't have the motivation for a cold night at a lower league team then its on them.

But these aren't the same players. Dozens of players have changed through all those different managers. So if it's not the managers and not the players, what is it?

As an aside, I disagree about Poch. After all, we got to a decent amount of semi-finals and the final of the UCL. Under Mourinho we got to another final. There are always going to be odd years where we get knocked out, that happens to almost every team, but I think when talking specifically, we can definitely say that under Conte there are questions to be asked. Even Kane admitted after the MIlan game that they weren't up for it. Yes, the players should take some of the blame, but a manager's job is, and should be judged on, IMHO, how well he coaches a team to perform. Otherwise, what are we to judge them on?

 

[spurs mental]

But these aren't the same players. Dozens of players have changed through all those different managers. So if it's not the managers and not the players, what is it?

Dier, Davies, Sanchez, Lucas, Son, Kane are all the same players and all played some part in either the Sheff Utd game or Milan game. Sanchez the less said the better.

As I've stated above about Dier and Davies, good solid guys, good solid pros. But they're all here a long time and something could be engrained in them as I think you previously said.

There is something not right within the club as a whole (Levy) and he definitely doesn't prioritise silverware over league position. The managers know it, the players know it and the fans know it. In my opinion anyway that is the biggest problem, the mentality at the top is wrong.

As an aside, I disagree about Poch. After all, we got to a decent amount of semi-finals and the final of the UCL. Under Mourinho we got to another final. There are always going to be odd years where we get knocked out, that happens to almost every team, but I think when talking specifically, we can definitely say that under Conte there are questions to be asked. Even Kane admitted after the MIlan game that they weren't up for it. Yes, the players should take some of the blame, but a manager's job is, and should be judged on, IMHO, how well he coaches a team to perform. Otherwise, what are we to judge them on?

We got to semi finals but what happened then? We were in those games and competing, and then all of a sudden our opposition got a goal, or changed something and we couldn't cope.

Going back to the point about Levy not caring about silverware being the problem, he sacked Jose 6 days before said final because Jose wanted to prioritise it over league position. Says it all doesn't it?

I'm not saying Conte is blameless in all of this, never have, but what's to say he didn't try and get them motivated more than they were v Milan? Or v Sheff Utd (even though he wasn't present)

We had people saying our better results and performances without him were because he wasn't there, but our bad ones when he wasn't there were down to him? It cannot be both.

I won't get into the mitigating factors around the season and why I think we've suffered a loss of form and confidence again as it's been done to the hilt in here.

 

[mil1lion]

He has rotated in areas, maybe not as much as people would like but he does rotate. He just rarely makes more than a few changes. He's already started to rotate more at right wing back, when Sess was fit he did rotate between him and Perisic on the left. He has rotated with Lenglet, Dier and Davies. He's rotated a bit with Richarlison either side of his injuries. Maybe could have used Bissouma and Skipp a bit more. So he does do it but only with about half the team.

 

[rabbikeane]

Why though? We don't look anywhere closer to winning something under Conte than any other manager we've had since Kane broke through. Arguably we are as far away from winning something as we've ever been in the last ten years, barring maybe a few months under Nuno.

There's not a manager out there that will out think everyone else and make us champions on his own. Planning and a work process is needed. Everyone at the club being on board and working together. And not the least ot takes MONEY and TIME. We're now down a line with Conte and has built towards something, it's almost a team he can perform his best with. Some other managers, like maybe Tuchel could also continue the build as it's close to what he needs as well. If we change to for instance Enrique then we need immediately 15 new players and work for 5 years to become a possession playing club. Will we support it through bad periods? Or will we be fed up mid way and demand a new reset again? If we make a change in new direction then that must be our long term identity.

What is it you want us to win? Minor trophies like FA, League cup, Europe League (and lower)? Cause those are trophies we indeed are able to win. Problem with them is that Levy (owners) don't care for them. They take away from our effort to get into top 4 and is clearly down prioritized. Conte is actually not hired to go for them, it will be in his job description. It won't change with next manager, it was no different with Pochettino who also supported the idea. Only manager who arguably saw the need for one of those trophies was Mourinho, it got him fired. As said no manager change will take us closer to those winnings unless it's a change in club/owner desire and demand. Target setting for managers hired are to get top 4 - their job depend on it and their pay will be increased from it. In other words, it's what the club as a whole work towards.

Winning Premier League or Champions League to be honest we have no right to demand, it's so far beyond where we realistically are and should be. Leaving us in this tragic situation where we're not winning any thing despite being one of the biggest 10 clubs in the world.
Only reason why people have started to have that dream is actually what Levy has done for this club, or of course it lies in the hope of a new rich owner coming in and buying it for them - but that could just as well happen to Brentford, Wrexham, West Ham you name it. However, as we see with Arsenal, it is possible to challenge for a club of our financial size. But it's the end product of years of work. If we are capable to win the league soon, what manager is closest to doing it? Without doubt Conte as the team has been shaped in his image over time.

Whether Conte is motivated and want to stay beyond the summer is another matter, mostly out of our hands. We'll have to wait and see. The option to build on his work is however something the club can choose in the selection of the next manager. A new direction might be good for the fans as we're tired of the style, but it won't take us closer to winning anything. It will take more time to do it in a different way. But perhaps it's in the clubs best interest if we want it to be playing its games in a certain way. That's not about winning though.

Getting top 4 previous season and perhaps this is to Conte's credit. Milan game is on Conte's shoulder, and arguably a down side with him.
Sheffield game and domestic cup exits are on Levy, club decision, track record prove it as we play rotated weakened side again and again.

Convince Conte to stay while we sign top international GK, CCB and LCB and the team should be as good as it's ever been.
Don't get those players in and there's no point in him being here.
Go for a new manager that play with a flat 4 and/or inwards full/wing backs, gegenpress or possession football - then it will take years until we are on same level in that direction.

 

[TOLBINY]

Seems to me there are 4 views all with valid reasons;
1. Conte out now
2. Conte out at the end of the season
3. See where we are at the end of the season and decide
4. Keep him and give him time

Don't think there is much more to be said.

 

[DJS]

I'm totally drained by this season, I don't want him here. The football and his attitude stinks.

Why would you give him more money when he doesn't play them anyway

It is concerning.

Danjuma is the latest.

Before that I feel he miss-managed Bissouma, Spence, not playing to Son’s strengths and still continuing to either not adjust things to get more out of Son or bench him and getting shot of Reggy.

The concern also is he can’t seem to effectively manage more than one game a week?

His team did a fantastic job getting them all fit, with Kane being a prime example as had hardly any body fat on him, but the tactics, his inflexible ways and lack of commitment beyond this summer is having an effect.

With the squad we have, rotation should have been far more effective and keeping players feeling involved so they are able to step in and keep the same team rhyme going.

 

[Trix]

Seems to me there are 4 views all with valid reasons;
1. Conte out now
2. Conte out at the end of the season
3. See where we are at the end of the season and decide
4. Keep him and give him time

Don't think there is much more to be said.

I think you've just summed up the best part of a 1000 pages in 6 lines.

 

[rabbikeane]

Their players played with a bucket load more desire than ours did. Ours turned up and looked like they thought they were too good to be playing against Sheffield Utd. The attitude and application were the serious issue against them.

This is true and happens automatically when you rotate a lot of the team and line up with players that haven't played much with each other. Our superior quality individually is canceled out and game comes down to chance and desire. Players know they're lining up with a weakened team, levels are lowered. What happens happens, no control.

We could have gone past Sheffield with that line up and attitude, but it would be by random. If we line up against lower teams than us for say three rounds of the FA cup then we're going out by chance in one round or another.
And if we repeat that over say, the 15+ years that we haven't won those trophies, then we go out every year.

We can't before a season decide that this is the year we win the FA cup. As cup is cup.
We can however take it seriously year in, year out. Over a 10 year period of that then it's almost given that a club like ours win 2-3 trophies.
That's what it takes to win the minor trophies, and our track record show it's not something the club / Levy want to prioritize.

 

[y1dk1d]

I just feel that if he was to stay on we’ll go through the motions next season again.

I feel that he struggles to juggle the cup competitions so we’ll probably go out in the domestic cups to less opposition.

Conte doesn’t take any responsibility so he’ll probably continue to blame everyone else but himself as well as make out he’s working miracles with the squad as if he’s got Halifax town to the top of the prem.

The football we play is so boring to watch and we’ll continue to see our 2 man midfield get overloaded in every game.

I don’t hate Conte, he’s left us with some good memories and I’m actually gutted to say it because I thought and hoped this would work really well, but it’s best for everyone if he leaves

 

[mil1lion]

I think people exagerate with the players signed for a Conte system. Quality players can play in multiple systems. We wouldn't need to make so many changes if we change manager. It's more about the quality needed for the first team so we can drop some of the more mediocre starters. I'm sure for example Porro and Udogie can be trained in a high press to work similar to how Walker and Rose worked in a Poch system. Besides we will have a big squad to pick from when everyone returns from loan. The major one if we change from 3 at the back is just to get a 1st choice partner for Romero and a creative central midfielder instead of a 2nd centre back. 2 quality signings in that regard would go a long way under a more possession driven manager. Everything else is about coaching players movement off the ball. We have enough young players to be coached and it really only took a year under Poch before the football was looking a lot better than under AVB. That was without mass incomings.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

There's not a manager out there that will out think everyone else and make us champions on his own. Planning and a work process is needed. Everyone at the club being on board and working together. And not the least ot takes MONEY and TIME. We're now down a line with Conte and has built towards something, it's almost a team he can perform his best with. Some other managers, like maybe Tuchel could also continue the build as it's close to what he needs as well. If we change to for instance Enrique then we need immediately 15 new players and work for 5 years to become a possession playing club. Will we support it through bad periods? Or will we be fed up mid way and demand a new reset again? If we make a change in new direction then that must be our long term identity.

What is it you want us to win? Minor trophies like FA, League cup, Europe League (and lower)? Cause those are trophies we indeed are able to win. Problem with them is that Levy (owners) don't care for them. They take away from our effort to get into top 4 and is clearly down prioritized. Conte is actually not hired to go for them, it will be in his job description. It won't change with next manager, it was no different with Pochettino who also supported the idea. Only manager who arguably saw the need for one of those trophies was Mourinho, it got him fired. As said no manager change will take us closer to those winnings unless it's a change in club/owner desire and demand. Target setting for managers hired are to get top 4 - their job depend on it and their pay will be increased from it. In other words, it's what the club as a whole work towards.

Winning Premier League or Champions League to be honest we have no right to demand, it's so far beyond where we realistically are and should be. Leaving us in this tragic situation where we're not winning any thing despite being one of the biggest 10 clubs in the world.
Only reason why people have started to have that dream is actually what Levy has done for this club, or of course it lies in the hope of a new rich owner coming in and buying it for them - but that could just as well happen to Brentford, Wrexham, West Ham you name it. However, as we see with Arsenal, it is possible to challenge for a club of our financial size. But it's the end product of years of work. If we are capable to win the league soon, what manager is closest to doing it? Without doubt Conte as the team has been shaped in his image over time.

Whether Conte is motivated and want to stay beyond the summer is another matter, mostly out of our hands. We'll have to wait and see. The option to build on his work is however something the club can choose in the selection of the next manager. A new direction might be good for the fans as we're tired of the style, but it won't take us closer to winning anything. It will take more time to do it in a different way. But perhaps it's in the clubs best interest if we want it to be playing its games in a certain way. That's not about winning though.

Getting top 4 previous season and perhaps this is to Conte's credit. Milan game is on Conte's shoulder, and arguably a down side with him.
Sheffield game and domestic cup exits are on Levy, club decision, track record prove it as we play rotated weakened side again and again.

Convince Conte to stay while we sign top international GK, CCB and LCB and the team should be as good as it's ever been.
Don't get those players in and there's no point in him being here.
Go for a new manager that play with a flat 4 and/or inwards full/wing backs, gegenpress or possession football - then it will take years until we are on same level in that direction.

I agree with a lot of this but I will say pretty much every side prioritises the league position over trophies. This isn't something specific to Levy/ENIC.

For seasons Klopp basically played the under-23s in domestic cup competitions. It's only recently he has been able to field stronger sides as their squad got bigger.

Yes we rotate but it doesn't mean the club doesn't to win it. The squad players should be good enough to beat lower league opposition in most cases.

I agree with your overall thread though. We need to build on Conte's/Paratici's work, not rip it up and start again, as it will be another season of transition and not getting closer to our rivals.The reason Arsenal, and previous to that Liverpool, have done so well is that they stuck to the same plan over a period of time. They didn't rip it up at the first sign of trouble. The issue is that their fans by enlarge were willing to get on board the project. However, our fansbase lacks patience for this particular project as they see Conte as a 'win now' manager. He hasn't helped himself by the style of football and being constantly non-committal over his future, but it does feel to me if we had some patience eventually we would find ourselves challenging at the top of the league.