Bundesliga 22/23

[Marty]

The German Super Cup was also played yesterday but there's obviously a much bigger story dominating the start of the new season.

Dortmund striker Haller to undergo chemotherapy

Borussia Dortmund striker Sebastien Haller is to miss several months after undergoing chemotherapy for a testicular tumour.

www.bbc.com

Best wishes to Haller and hope we see him back before too long.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Daniel Farke in charge at Gladbach, I'm fearing another underwhelming season. Which is disappointing after them being in the champions league only a couple of years ago.

 

[cwy21]

Bayern up 2-0 inside 10 minutes. Same old Bundesliga.

 

[Riandor]

Bayern up 2-0 inside 10 minutes. Same old Bundesliga.

5-0 and it isn’t even HT

 

[Gassin's finest]

Great start for Gladbach, and a great overhead goal from Bensebaini.

I read that this will be the first season in a long time where we'll have a brand new top scorer in the league, what with Haaland and Lewandowski leaving. I'd love to see Marcus Thuram get it.

 

[lobob8]

Anyone else think German football is actually closer to the French/Dutch leagues and not the Italian/Spanish leagues in terms of quality? Bayern totally dominate the competition just like PSG and Ajax, Italy obviously was like this as well with Juve but much better in recent years. Other than Dortmund and maybe Leverkusen, and Frankfurt, there just isn't much quality there. Much better competition in Spain and Italy imo.

 

[SandroClegane]

I don't understand the statistics here but this is an interesting thread about the differences between the Bundesliga and other leagues and why they struggle in UEFA competitions.



Sourced from this article: https://www.espn.com/sports/insider...es-german-soccer-weirdness-hurt-dominant-team

 

[aliyid]

Timo Werner back enjoying the goalkeepers in Germany

 

[Tottenham_God]

Great start for Gladbach, and a great overhead goal from Bensebaini.

I read that this will be the first season in a long time where we'll have a brand new top scorer in the league, what with Haaland and Lewandowski leaving. I'd love to see Marcus Thuram get it.

So would I. Threatened to be a world beater but injuries and mentality seem to have hindered his career.

Plea seems to be Gladbachs main man, I find him underwhelming

 

[Gassin's finest]

So would I. Threatened to be a world beater but injuries and mentality seem to have hindered his career.

Plea seems to be Gladbachs main man, I find him underwhelming

Gladbach in general post lockdown has been weird. 2019 they were finishing top 4, leading the bundesliga, Florian Neuhaus was the new star of the future... then after the league started up again they were inconsistent, Rose went to Dortmund, Neuhaus dropped off, and they're back to being mid table with Daniel Farke in charge.

 

[Tottenham_God]

Gladbach in general post lockdown has been weird. 2019 they were finishing top 4, leading the bundesliga, Florian Neuhaus was the new star of the future... then after the league started up again they were inconsistent, Rose went to Dortmund, Neuhaus dropped off, and they're back to being mid table with Daniel Farke in charge.

Yep. I followed them closely for awhile. Just picked them as my team to follow randomly. Loved Somer and Ginter

 

[Gassin's finest]

Yep. I followed them closely for awhile. Just picked them as my team to follow randomly. Loved Somer and Ginter

Same, I decided to make them my Bundesliga team when the league started up back in May 2020 when it was the only football available, and BT showed all the games. We were stationed down the road in Rheindahlen in the 80s, when Lothar Matthias played for them.

 

[Tottenham_God]

Same, I decided to make them my Bundesliga team when the league started up back in May 2020 when it was the only football available, and BT showed all the games. We were stationed down the road in Rheindahlen in the 80s, when Lothar Matthias played for them.

Is Florian just not that good ?

 

[Gassin's finest]

Is Florian just not that good ?

He certainly seemed gifted, but then he just stopped getting games. I wonder if he was a bit like Dele with Poch... In that after Rose left he just couldn't be arsed for another manager. Odd.

 

[Tottenham_God]

He certainly seemed gifted, but then he just stopped getting games. I wonder if he was a bit like Dele with Poch... In that after Rose left he just couldn't be arsed for another manager. Odd.

My opinion is that he is very similar to Winks. Competent, tidy, but ultimately limited and not particularly great at anything. Both in their mid 20s now with 10 odd caps for their national sides and I think they'll both float around their respective leagues till they hang up the boots.

Florian I'd say is slightly better than Winks for the record. More so just using him as an example of a player everyone got hard for that just isn't that good.

 

[chas vs dave]

Anyone see dortmunds result?

2-0 up to werder bremen on 88. Ended up losing 2-3.

How does that even happen? ?

 

[cwy21]

Anyone see dortmunds result?

2-0 up to werder bremen on 88. Ended up losing 2-3.

How does that even happen? ?

That takes our Leicester win to the next level.

 

[WePlayWednesday]

Anyone see dortmunds result?

2-0 up to werder bremen on 88. Ended up losing 2-3.

How does that even happen? ?

Welcome to the Bundesliga! This is why you can’t compare players in the EPL and other leagues. The defensive qualities even at “top” clubs are distinctly suspect…

 

[chas vs dave]

Welcome to the Bundesliga! This is why you can’t compare players in the EPL and other leagues. The defensive qualities even at “top” clubs are distinctly suspect…

Lewandowski was complaining last week because the valladolid defenders were marking him in the box ?. That's their job!

 

[C0YS]

I don't understand the statistics here but this is an interesting thread about the differences between the Bundesliga and other leagues and why they struggle in UEFA competitions.



Sourced from this article: https://www.espn.com/sports/insider...es-german-soccer-weirdness-hurt-dominant-team

I mean you don't understand them because it's bullshit basically. From what I understand it's based on accumulation of stats and then gets its data by seeing how the stats increase or decrease when players are transferred to different leagues. In other words it ignores possible differences in styles etcetera.

The actual person presenting it is more interested in it as a curiousity. Namely by how such a basic metric seems to come up with a viable list of relative leagues strength, though I would argue that Brazilian serie A and Ligue 1 are considerably higher than they should be. It isn't, however to be taken seriously.

I also don't believe bundesliga teams struggle at all in Europe. They sometimes have poor years but every league does. I mean, last season Frankfurt beat Barcelona on their way to winning the Europa League, meanwhile Bayern are still the top club in the uefa coefficient and they have 3 clubs in the top 20. That may not sound a lot but only the PL and La Liga have more teams in the top 20, Serie A and Ligue 1 just have two. Germany are also 3rd in the league coefficients.

So when it comes down to this the Bundesliga could be said to be the third best in the world. I don't personally agree, but by the most reliable frameworks we have it suggests that is the case. And, no, elo ranking done by some weird date driven relative strength bullshit is not more reliable.

The bundesliga is not a rich league, in major part due to their ownership models. I would argue the bundesliga is not underachieving but overachieving. I would also say that it's a league that, while is probably on its way down when compared to a few years ago, it's in a relatively good position when compared to its historical placement (late 70s it was probably the strongest, but it isn't historically the same level as Serie A, La Liga and the English top division).

So all in all, I would like to make a different arguement. Which is why is the bundesliga overachieving in europe? I would say it's due to a commitment to developing players more so than its commitment to open pressing football.

The article is right to point out that the bundesliga has a style that is different to other leagues and does make it harder for certain players to adapt to other leagues, but it works visa versa too. But while there is a crisis in having a competitive league there isn't any crisis in terms of European performance, and it's certainly not down to the style of play.

The bundesliga has, in the last 5 years or so, become massively overhyped. Maybe, some confuse the way that teams play there as a mark of strength or see it as the most similar league to the PL. It is only superficially similar to the PL, and it being more fun to watch compared to la Liga doesn't mean it's stronger.