Man City [Now Not] Banned From UCL For 2 years

Everlasting Seconds · Feb 15, 2020

LeSoupeKitchen said:
I don't get the big deal about financially doping when there is no risk of going bankrupt and ruining the club.

What's the difference between Man U having more money than everyone else due to getting small amounts of additional revenue from millions of people and Man C having more money from just one person.

It's still not fair right? At least it means other clubs can mix things up with the established teams. The damage Man City (and us) has done on the top 4 has opened the door for a lot of teams.

One is profiting from a successful product, the other is cheating. You write financial doping, it's thus called for a reason. You wouldn't for instance accept medical doping in sports just because everybody have the opportunity to take their vitamin supplement every morning, would you? That's about how you are trying to compare the situations.

WePlayWednesday · Feb 15, 2020

If I understand FFP correctly, you can’t make more than a certain amount of losses over a period. If city only made £10m profit last year and £86m was earned from the Champions League, then a 2 year ban equals at least a loss of £160m over that period. Combined with being unable to carry on cheating and the potential for being fined/sanctioned for 2016-2020, this could end them as a club.

FFP rules - all you need to know

BBC Sport explains how financial fair play works, why it was brought in and how clubs in breach of the rules can be punished.

www.bbc.com

WePlayWednesday · Feb 15, 2020

English versions of the German expose of Man City cheating. Shocking stuff.

Manchester City Exposed: Bending the Rules to the Tune of Millions

For years now, the Manchester City football club has vehemently denied that its owner, the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, broke financial rules. But internal emails tell a different story, providing evidence of backdated contracts, illusory sponsoring payments and cavalier, "We can do what we want,"...

www.spiegel.de

Manchester City And The Fight Against Financial Fairplay

A phony, multimillion-pound deal and behind-the-scenes lobbying: Before the introduction of the new Financial Fair Play rules, Manchester City did all it could to dodge spending regulations. The club insisted to UEFA it was innocent.

www.spiegel.de

Manchester City Exposed Chapter 3: Recruiting Pep Guardiola

The powerful men behind Manchester City don't just show up in the stadium, they also make appearances on the global political stage. Control is their top priority. They managed to lure star trainer Pep Guardiola away from FC Bayern almost a year before he took over Man City. By DER SPIEGEL Staff

www.spiegel.de

Manchester City Exposed Chapter 4: A Global Empire

It's football capitalism in its purest form: Manchester City pays exorbitant salaries and turns a profit, while the City Football Group controls affiliates on all continents. Executives even used an Arab club for secret payments to the man who is now the coach of Italy's national team. By DER...

www.spiegel.de

Lilbaz · Feb 15, 2020

LeSoupeKitchen said:
I don't get the big deal about financially doping when there is no risk of going bankrupt and ruining the club.

What's the difference between Man U having more money than everyone else due to getting small amounts of additional revenue from millions of people and Man C having more money from just one person.

It's still not fair right? At least it means other clubs can mix things up with the established teams. The damage Man City (and us) has done on the top 4 has opened the door for a lot of teams.

The point is that clubs should be self sustainable and not rely on their owners money. Malaga learnt the hard way what happens when a sugar daddy loses interest.

The rules are in place for the safety of the clubs.

danielneeds · Feb 15, 2020

philll said:
I can't believe what I'm seeing from certain corners of their fanbase. They've absolutely been caught cheating and they're talking about holding up "fuck UEFA" banners and laughing maniacally as they imagine how much "they" are going to spend on lawyers in the appeal. They're like rabid Trump supporters.

It’s exactly how Trump supporters become more extreme and distorted. You hang out with people who share your views and you all become more rabid and unable to accept contrasting opinions.

It’s a miracle this place is, by and large, a fairly sane and considered environment.

TheCheeseRoom · Feb 15, 2020

It's times like these you really do appreciate our Danny.

Dov67 · Feb 15, 2020

how the f**k have Chelsea escaped all these years.

If it wasn't for Roman's money they might not even have been in the Prem all these years let alone have had the opportunity to buy 5 titles.

Lilbaz · Feb 15, 2020

Dov67 said:
how the f**k have Chelsea escaped all these years.

If it wasn't for Roman's money they might not even have been in the Prem all these years let alone have had the opportunity to buy 5 titles.

Because by the time ffp came in they were self sustaining. They got round the rules by buying lots of young talent loaning them out then selling them.

kmk · Feb 16, 2020

kmk · Feb 16, 2020

Danners9 · Feb 16, 2020

FFP 'scuppered' if Man City win UEFA appeal - expert - Football365

UEFA may have left themselves exposed by banning Man City from European competition…

www.football365.com

This. If UEFA's punishment doesn't stick then FFP is dead and it gives a green light to any other club to systematically cheat. Man City agreed to the regulations then set up a network of ways for the owners to inject funding through the side door. Maybe they went for a 2yr ban knowing it can be cut in half and still hurt them.

This part:

“It is transnational power versus localised governance. This is not Manchester City it is City Football Group.

“You have the Abu Dhabi government invested into it, you have the Chinese government invested into it, Silver Lake invested into it, and they are operating franchises across seven or eight countries including China and India.

“This is not about what’s going to happen to a football club, it is fundamentally about the power of an organisation to challenge the continental governance by a body like UEFA.”

CFG agreed a £265m sale of shares to a consortium of Chinese state-backed investment firms China Media Capital and CITIC Capital in 2015 and in November Silver Lake bought a £389m stake.

They've sold stakes to various people, bought clubs across the world, and in some cases used the accounts of the other clubs to offset City's losses.

Ignore that it's from a Liverpool account, it's a good link to Der Spiegel's investigation:

They aimed to be sustainable, they told fans and the league that, and this year made a before tax profit of just 10m according to this: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city

Not to mention they (and PSG) have already negotiated settlements to avoid exclusion from the Champions League. Imagine the losses if they hadn't been cheating. A lack of CL money and not being able to count on the dodgy sponsorships would, as the F365 piece says, 'force a realigning of their finances to avoid running into potential further FFP problems.' This has been going on for years. In that time they have won almost everything. All of those records are now like baseball's home run hitters and should have an asterisk next to them.

If they get away with it then the game is truly dead.

Armstrong_11 · Feb 16, 2020

I expect them to appeal. Most likely it will be a 1 year ban, plus another year suspended if they get their act together.

I hope they carry on thou... pretty sure liverpool, man utd, chelsea etc have some stuff that are hidden away somewhere.

spursfan77 · Feb 16, 2020

Lilbaz said:
Because by the time ffp came in they were self sustaining. They got round the rules by buying lots of young talent loaning them out then selling them.

What I don’t understand is that he apparently gave them a £250 million interest free loan last year. Unless that is wrong, surely it’s the same thing as financial doping? Man City are being charged with something else though, artificially inflating sponsorship deals.

Lilbaz · Feb 16, 2020

spursfan77 said:
What I don’t understand is that he apparently gave them a £250 million interest free loan last year. Unless that is wrong, surely it’s the same thing as financial doping? Man City are being charged with something else though, artificially inflating sponsorship deals.

I don't know anything about that loan so couldn't comment. Do you have a source?

spursfan77 · Feb 16, 2020

Lilbaz said:
I don't know anything about that loan so couldn't comment. Do you have a source?

I didn’t think I imagined it, but I think it’s different to Man City. I wouldn’t be surprised though if they are on UEFA’s hit list.

Billionaire Roman Abramovich Still Pumping Money Into Chelsea Despite Losing Love For London

New accounts for Chelsea show that the Premier League club is still dependent on Roman Abramovich’s money to complete at the top end of the English Premier League.

www.forbes.com

Lilbaz · Feb 16, 2020

spursfan77 said:
I didn’t think I imagined it, but I think it’s different to Man City. I wouldn’t be surprised though if they are on UEFA’s hit list.

Billionaire Roman Abramovich Still Pumping Money Into Chelsea Despite Losing Love For London

New accounts for Chelsea show that the Premier League club is still dependent on Roman Abramovich’s money to complete at the top end of the English Premier League.

www.forbes.com

I dunno. Ffp is over 3 years and chelsea made a big profit on player trading last year. Also a big chunk might have been for their new stadium (abandoned) which wouldn't be covered by ffp.

Chelsea make biggest net profit of any club in world

Premier League clubs had the biggest net deficit of Europe's big five leagues, spending £715million more than they earned. Only Ligue 1 showed an overall profit, of £90m.

www.google.com

spursfan77 · Feb 16, 2020

Lilbaz said:
I dunno. Ffp is over 3 years and chelsea made a big profit on player trading last year. Also a big chunk might have been for their new stadium (abandoned) which wouldn't be covered by ffp.

Chelsea make biggest net profit of any club in world

Premier League clubs had the biggest net deficit of Europe's big five leagues, spending £715million more than they earned. Only Ligue 1 showed an overall profit, of £90m.

www.google.com

I think had Chelsea been bought over the same period they’d be in their sights but most of the money went in at the start of Abramovich’s reign. They need a new stadium though and I just can’t see it happening at Fulham Broadway.

I really don’t think Man City will get away with it though. I wouldn’t be surprised if UEFA have kept CAS in the loop over their pursuit of Man City. They know the risk of not getting a successful prosecution and the implications for FFP. If their case against Man City fails then what’s to stop other prosecuted clubs asking for their cases to be reopened. I’m looking forward to seeing what the Premier League do, they’re the ones I expect to be weak and roll over.

philll · Feb 16, 2020

Dov67 said:
how the f**k have Chelsea escaped all these years.

If it wasn't for Roman's money they might not even have been in the Prem all these years let alone have had the opportunity to buy 5 titles.

Because Abramovich lobbed money at the club but he was fairly open about it and didn't try to dress it up as something else, presumably because he didn't need to because FFP wasn't a thing. You could probably argue that clubs like Chelsea are the reason FFP exists.

What City have been banned for isn't breaching FFP, it's much worse than that.

Lilbaz · Feb 16, 2020

Just wondering if we could do a sheff utd (sueing west ham for cheating) and sue city? We missed out on cl in 2012.

Probably not the best idea though. The abu dhabis have a lot of clout in the business world along with their saudi allies.

Japhet · Feb 16, 2020

nattydredd said:
If it does get overturned, UEFA will have a more serious problem. It would represent an existential threat to UEFA itself. UEFA have to make a stand here, otherwise they will have to admit that the clubs make the rules. I can't see this happening here, but it's a funny old game.

Fireworks are ahead for all concerned....

UEFA have already been tainted by corruption with Platini (and Blatter) so I think they'll have to show the courage to fight hard for their rules to be obeyed. I'd also add that if UEFA have decided that City are cheats, the FA should reach the same conclusion and dish out some justice for all of the teams in the EPL that have been cheated against.

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