Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Yantino · Mar 15, 2023

The fact is we have regressed this season and not kicked on from the excellent finish last season. We have been extremely inconsistent and i am firmly of the opinion that all of this is a result of the limbo we find ourselves in with the managers situation, Paratici, Kane etc etc. It's affected our form, our players and our recruitment.

If Conte commits then i will be firmly in support and right behind him, but he cannot expect fans to get on board when he doesn't commit.

I agree with Chris Sutton - if he isn't prepared to see out his own project that he himself has said will take time, then I think we should be making a decision about that now.

Rout-Ledge · Mar 15, 2023

Stamford said:
Top four is always the end game because of the ownership. I think we're all just bored because we know we arent going any further than that currently

Even with that in mind, I still think there’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s preferable to go with a very short term (but effective) option in conte over a longer term option that could consistently achieve top four over a longer period whilst giving us better quality football to watch. It’s not as if we’ve never had that before…

spursfast · Mar 15, 2023

jolsnogross said:
I reckon we'll be better off without him. The lack of progress this season represents very poor performance and there's a lot of blame and deflection coming from him instead of forward planning and commitment.

It wouldn't be a disaster if he ends up staying. Maybe in the remaining games this season he can finally string 4 or 5 wins on the trot. But absent a decent uptick, there's no sign of steady improvement that's indicative of building toward success. And watching this deep-lying percentages footy is grim.

there's a lot of blame and deflection coming from him instead of forward planning and commitment... unfortunately so true

Trix · Mar 15, 2023

Rout-Ledge said:
Even with that in mind, I still think there’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s preferable to go with a very short term (but effective) option in conte over a longer term option that could consistently achieve top four over a longer period whilst giving us better quality football to watch. It’s not as if we’ve never had that before…

With Man city, Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea I very much doubt anyone could consistently do that.

Yantino · Mar 15, 2023

Trix said:
With Man city, Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea I very much doubt anyone could consistently do that.

Very true. Which is why I feel it's so important that we get our football operating model absolutely bang on.

We are not going to compete financially with most of these sides, so we must ensure that our strategy and recruitment is better in order to keep up.

Rosco1984 · Mar 15, 2023

HedgieSpur said:
That's because you don't like Conte and this dislike appears to have removed your ability to be objective.

Actually I had been the one defending him to a friend of mine who was dead against his style from day one. I did really enjoy his management at the beginning and I can be very objective and he is clearly a very talented manager and I enjoyed the patterns of play he introduced despite the mid block etc. What I also know is he won't commit to the club. Everything has been up in the air for months and the performances have been better when he wasn't present coincidence or not they have been. A lot of what has happened is not his fault and I massively sympathize with losing friends etc. But it is extremely hard for a player to motivate himself to run through a wall for a man who is seemingly disinterested in staying at the club and seems to not want to change anything in terms of system regardless of performance.

ajspurs · Mar 15, 2023

Ghost Hardware said:
Exactly this, I think the moment we come up against a better structured team we could well struggle. As you say, if we loose two in a row then what happens then, tbh if we loose even one and look poor then I reckon the fans will be baying for blood again. For me it too soon to say we should 100% stick with him until the end of the season but it is also the ideal situation for us if he can last. And really, so much of what happens to him hinges on what happens with our manager hunt.

Yeah, it will turn toxic again if we lose to Southampton but I probably agree with @Bluto Blutarsky in that we're committed to keeping him now. I too am not 100% in either direction and it's really difficult to gauge just where we stand as a team when we're so up and down. Like I wouldn't be surprised if we drop points away to Saints and Everton, and then win the 'harder' game against more direct rivals at home to Brighton afterwards, followed by a win against Bournemouth with suddenly everything being positive again and it will be more or less a rinse and repeat of that until the end of the season.

It certainly doesn't feel like we have a plan in place for if we were to sack him before the end of the season and if we don't have a plan then I guess I feel OK with that but I know I was feeling far from being so accepting of this possibility after that Milan game.

I do think Forest were shit on the weekend but I do also think there were noticeable positives from our own game too that we can take away from it so the hope from me is that we have made a few subtle changes that could yield a better output on the pitch but the Saints game will be so so telling.

easley91 · Mar 15, 2023

Yantino said:
The fact is we have regressed this season and not kicked on from the excellent finish last season. We have been extremely inconsistent and i am firmly of the opinion that all of this is a result of the limbo we find ourselves in with the managers situation, Paratici, Kane etc etc. It's affected our form, our players and our recruitment.

If Conte commits then i will be firmly in support and right behind him, but he cannot expect fans to get on board when he doesn't commit.

I agree with Chris Sutton - if he isn't prepared to see out his own project that he himself has said will take time, then I think we should be making a decision about that now.

Performance wise, sure. But we are still in contention for 3rd with the results we still seem to pick up in the league. We could conceivably be 3rd by Saturday evening with a win over Southampton (easier said than done mind you). We were chasing Arsenal for 4th until the very end of the season, yet this campaign we are the ones being chased (games in hand for others still to be played).

In terms of league position I'd say it's an improvement (I know many will disagree with that). And that is remarkable considering the inconsistent performances and massive drop off in form for many of our players.

mil1lion · Mar 15, 2023

easley91 said:
Performance wise, sure. But we are still in contention for 3rd with the results we still seem to pick up in the league. We could conceivably be 3rd by Saturday evening with a win over Southampton (easier said than done mind you). We were chasing Arsenal for 4th until the very end of the season, yet this campaign we are the ones being chasing (games in hand for others still to be played).

In terms of league position I'd say it's an improvement (I know many will disagree with that). And that is remarkable considering the inconsistent performances and massive drop off in form for many of our players.

It's maybe an improvement to this point. We progressed into the ko stage of the CL where last season couldn't even progress through the Europa conference group. We went out of the FA Cup at the same stage but got further in the Carabao Cup last season. It's close but if we finish top 4 it's maybe considered an improvement given we have to do it during a CL season. We couldn't rotate in the CL like in the Conference so I think that has to be factored in.

bubble07 · Mar 15, 2023

Question is if he gets defenders he wants that is realistic will the quality of football significantly improve?

HedgieSpur · Mar 15, 2023

Rout-Ledge said:
I think that’s probably true, but I think there’s a different conversation about whether it was worth hiring conte for a fixed 18 month term if top four was the endgame in that period. We will need to reset now under a new coach, with (presumably) longer term goals in mind. Seems in that context to be a waste of time.

I definitely think there is something in this. I was always very sceptical/unhappy that we didn't get him to sign a longer contract. To me it smacked of both sides knowing it was going to be an attempt at a "quick fix" rather than a longer term plan. Moreover, it gave both sides an "out" at the end of the 18 months.....didnt really strike me as showing commitment (both ways) at the time, and so it appears to have come to pass...

HedgieSpur · Mar 15, 2023

bubble07 said:
Question is if he gets defenders he wants that is realistic will the quality of football significantly improve?

I think the quality of the football would improve and we would play more like we did at the back end of last season. However, I cannot ever see a time where the football will be the swashbuckling stuff we saw under Redknapp, so some of our fans may not still be happy.

HedgieSpur · Mar 15, 2023

Rosco1984 said:
Actually I had been the one defending him to a friend of mine who was dead against his style from day one. I did really enjoy his management at the beginning and I can be very objective and he is clearly a very talented manager and I enjoyed the patterns of play he introduced despite the mid block etc. What I also know is he won't commit to the club. Everything has been up in the air for months and the performances have been better when he wasn't present coincidence or not they have been. A lot of what has happened is not his fault and I massively sympathize with losing friends etc. But it is extremely hard for a player to motivate himself to run through a wall for a man who is seemingly disinterested in staying at the club and seems to not want to change anything in terms of system regardless of performance.

All that is fair and I appreciate you explaining your view. I disagree on your previous assertion that the players looked "freer" with Conte not being there, but don't really disagree with what you have said here.

easley91 · Mar 15, 2023

mil1lion said:
It's maybe an improvement to this point. We progressed into the ko stage of the CL where last season couldn't even progress through the Europa conference group. We went out of the FA Cup at the same stage but got further in the Carabao Cup last season. It's close but if we finish top 4 it's maybe considered an improvement given we have to do it during a CL season. We couldn't rotate in the CL like in the Conference so I think that has to be factored in.

I think it's obvious we haven't played like we did back end of last season for whatever reason, yet we're still picking up results here and there despite that. It has been a really weird season where many feel we have dropped off, and to some degree we have, but the league position says otherwise.

Stamford · Mar 15, 2023

Trix said:
With Man city, Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea I very much doubt anyone could consistently do that.

we can compete with arsenal. That's the thing about their title charge is that they have proven it is possible with smart recruitment, risking it by spending more money and patience.

Duke of Northumberland · Mar 15, 2023

Cuore da Leone said:
We are definitely lacking humility in pursuing our dreams. To dare is to do while being prepared to be patient. Patience is a virtue for a reason. Our fan base needs to take a very hard at itself - have we earned the right to be this impatient? Clearly we haven’t.
Conte is a winner and we’re lucky to have him - you can’t detract from his track record. Him not shying away from calling out Levy and the board is admirable. Him not being committed is total nonsense - I think he actually cares a great deal about our club.

I don't know about the right to impatience, but based on the value of our respective squads and the time Conte has had to manage the team we should not have exited the FA Cup and CL in such a weak way against those opponents. We are humble enough to know when we are well-beaten. We have been worse this year than last, mostly turgid football and while there have been mitigating circumstances Conte's lack of inclination to extend his contract and failure to use players that have been brought in undermines his claims of not being backed. I don't think he intends to stay nor cares about the club, I'm not sure what indication there is that he does. He is professional and might get us Top 4 again- more chance than Mason.

Trix · Mar 15, 2023

bubble07 said:
Question is if he gets defenders he wants that is realistic will the quality of football significantly improve?

Will it ever be possession based high press football? No, but that doesn't mean the quality, consistency, effectivity won't be much improved. Porro coming in and Royal's improvement have made a huge difference in the last few weeks. Having the same outlet on the left(hopefully Udogie) will also improve things dramatically. To get the best out of two expansive WB's though we need to be sure the back line will cope when they are further forward.

Conte's philosophy has always been about having a solid backline that acts like a coiled spring. We need CB's that can defend also and pass out early and wing backs that can get up and down quickly with a quality end product..

wishkah · Mar 15, 2023

Yantino said:
Very true. Which is why I feel it's so important that we get our football operating model absolutely bang on.

We are not going to compete financially with most of these sides, so we must ensure that our strategy and recruitment is better in order to keep up.

I agree with this. We need an identity that we trust even if a season doesn't yield top 4. ala pool, utd, chelsea that when they have a bad season they rebound with vengeance the next year and win something. Even in a bad season you feel their style and players might nab a cup. We kinda do niether, and it's shite to watch.

Cuore da Leone · Mar 15, 2023

mattstev2000 said:
I do wish people would stop saying it was 'a miracle' we finished fourth last season.

We are objectively one of the teams in and around the fourth place battle every season.

Nuno made it difficult but it's not like we went on some invincibles style undefeated streak when Conte took over.

He did a good job, he got us fourth, but I think any number of top coaches in the world could have done that with the resources at his disposal.

Get fourth with wolves or nottingham forest then I'll happily agree you've achieved a miracle.

Conte likes to exaggerate and use strong language. It’s his bargaining chip vs. the board.

Trix · Mar 15, 2023

Stamford said:
we can compete with arsenal. That's the thing about their title charge is that they have proven it is possible with smart recruitment, risking it by spending more money and patience.

They've also spent more money than us despite not having CL. Kroenke has put his money where his mouth is and just left Edu and Arteta to get on with it. that's the difference mate.

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