Matt Doherty @ Atletico Madrid

rossdapep · Jan 31, 2023

Timberwolf said:
Yeah. Easy to say with hindsight, but if we'd just persevered with Kyle Walker Peters we would've saved ourselves years of upheaval in that position, the best part of 60-70m, and with a homegrown player on low wages.

KWP is not an elite RB, but nor are Doherty, Aurier, Royal or Spence (yet). Kyle's got better technique than any of them and, overall, I think he would've done a better job there.

I think we can thank;
1. Poch for never waiting to loan him out or give him enough valuable time.
2. Jose for wanting him out.

Actually the more I think about it, that second part annoys me. A decent young right back is sold in favor of a RB who is not athletic or agile enough and wouldnt work in a high press team.

If we hadnt have gone for Jose we'd have likely never started buying cloggers and kept players like that

bbunc · Jan 31, 2023

Ghost Hardware said:
Yeah its always been his issue, great talent scout but awful and getting rid of players.

I mean, there’s only so much one can do to sell expensive players that aren’t that good. Nobody wants them permanently - there’s not a DOF around that can make a club buy someone they don’t want.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jan 31, 2023

Dazzazzad said:
Can we not sell anyone? This is getting ridiculous now. If there is no money abroad FP needs to create some links to English teams. We're going to have 40 guys show up to training in pre-season.

Good luck to Doc, seems a nice guy.

Problem is the mid to lower teams in the prem get better value when buying abroad. And many of our players we would look to move on want to go back to their own countries or will feel they are too good to play for a lower to mid table prem team. And with many teams on the continent still struggling financially from the pandemic, and our players on good wages. It creates the perfect storm for not being able to shift players.

Most of the top 6 are dealing with the same issue.

FibreOpticJesus · Jan 31, 2023

WiganSpur said:
Players like Doherty, Gil etc have squad functions that should be occupied by academy talent really - or should be experienced players brought in on free transfers. Spend most of your money to get a top quality 18 players, and fill the rest with academy players and decent free transfers should be the strategy for us.

In this day and age this would not work. The academy players have to be there on merit. You need a big squad to compete in 4 comps. You effectively need two teams of top level players. It would however be great if we had a greater number of academy players who warranted being in the squad.

DJS · Jan 31, 2023

H-SF said:
Paratici is actually terrible at shifting deadwood. We have like 10 players coming back in June from a dry loan. Ffs

To be fair to him we weren’t exactly shifting them out before he came in and had built up a lot.

Ghost Hardware · Jan 31, 2023

bbunc said:
I mean, there’s only so much one can do to sell expensive players that aren’t that good. Nobody wants them permanently - there’s not a DOF around that can make a club buy someone they don’t want.

Oh i agree, i just mean he had the same issue at Juve. Obviously there was also a contract issue as well then. But in general he's never been great at getting players out the door.

Wheeler Dealer · Jan 31, 2023

SirHarryHotspur said:
Doherty 31 , Royal 24 , Matt's transfer value going down , Emerson on the way up according to transfermarket figures .
From a financial point of view makes sense to keep Emerson

Both are shite, Emerson being slightly less shite, but very marginal.

Dazzazzad · Jan 31, 2023

13VanDerBale13 said:
+ Rodon ?

+ Spence

Timberwolf · Jan 31, 2023

rossdapep said:
I think we can thank;
1. Poch for never waiting to loan him out or give him enough valuable time.
2. Jose for wanting him out.

Actually the more I think about it, that second part annoys me. A decent young right back is sold in favor of a RB who is not athletic or agile enough and wouldnt work in a high press team.

If we hadnt have gone for Jose we'd have likely never started buying cloggers and kept players like that

Yeah I think Jose got that very wrong. He clearly planned to play lop-sided fullbacks with Davies staying back and Doherty bombing on, but Doherty never looked comfortable in a back 4 full stop. Regardless of his small frame, there was never any doubt that KWP could actually function as a full back in a back 4, whereas Doherty was a liability there from day one.

tubbygold · Jan 31, 2023

I don't really watch Spanish football anymore, but don't Atletico still play a back four with full backs?

Odd one, considering how bad his performances were for us in that role.

AtoubaToothpaste · Jan 31, 2023

Almost £50m worth of fullbacks playing for AM for nada. At least Doherty is buzzing off his tits for the opportunity.

Timberwolf · Jan 31, 2023

tubbygold said:
I don't really watch Spanish football anymore, but don't Atletico still play a back four with full backs?

Odd one, considering how bad his performances were for us in that role.

Yeah slightly odd, although they play such a rigid defensive style I feel that somewhat compensates for players' individual defensive deficiencies. Plus Simeone is a monster at coaching players defensively.

We all bemoaned Trippier's defensive limitations at Spurs and then he went to Atletico and became a very solid defender quite quickly.

That said, Doherty is 31 and even slower than Tripps, so this is quite a stretch even for Simeone... maybe he wants to use him more as a more attacking sub option at RB?

robhumphreys · Jan 31, 2023

Would have kept him and got Rid of Royal. IMO He's streets above Emerson as a wing back and can also play on the left. Totally baffled by this decision.

KingKay · Jan 31, 2023

I get why we’ve let Doherty go instead of Emerson. Different qualities and all that.

A little bit concerned that we’ve just got rid of Kane’s golfing buddy though.

Basil Brush · Jan 31, 2023

robhumphreys said:
Would have kept him and got Rid of Royal. IMO He's streets above Emerson as a wing back and can also play on the left. Totally baffled by this decision.

Agree Maybe nobody would take royal even on loan, so maybe Doherty going on loan better than having both on our books for rest of season.

I think we will prob try and sell both royal and Doherty next window for whatever fee we can.

philll · Jan 31, 2023

Good luck, Matthew.

ebzrascal · Jan 31, 2023

robhumphreys said:
Would have kept him and got Rid of Royal. IMO He's streets above Emerson as a wing back and can also play on the left. Totally baffled by this decision.

Disagree with this Royal has had a decent performance defensively against all the top teams last season.. offers a contrast to Porro

bbunc · Jan 31, 2023

robhumphreys said:
Would have kept him and got Rid of Royal. IMO He's streets above Emerson as a wing back and can also play on the left. Totally baffled by this decision.

Disagree. He’s not been the same player since his injury.

he’s slow, not a great defender, not good in buildup, not going to beat his man 1:1 and not a great crosser. he had a season or two where he had a knack for showing up at right spot in the box, but even that seems to be gone.

Emerson is a lot younger, a much better defender, actually useful in buildup, etc. he’s very well suited to play in games against top teams where we will sit back a bit more.

I think we’ve made the right call there.

WiganSpur · Jan 31, 2023

robhumphreys said:
Would have kept him and got Rid of Royal. IMO He's streets above Emerson as a wing back and can also play on the left. Totally baffled by this decision.

There's risks to both decisions.

If you let Emerson go, you lose a potential effective second half substitute and a player who can start in tough away matches in which some of his best performances have come in.

If you let Doherty go, you lose good cover for Porro in the event of an injury, plus cover for the left side.

I can understand people in either camp tbh. Considering Perisic and Lucas can play RWB i'd be inclined to favour keeping Royal at the moment.

Wheeler Dealer · Jan 31, 2023

ebzrascal said:
Disagree with this Royal has had a decent performance defensively against all the top teams last season.. offers a contrast to Porro

I know he's not great, but Emerson rarely goes missing, even in his more shitter games.

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