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Interesting Article on Lloris-AVB

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
Just thought I would share this with you all (all you lurvly people...and BC :eek:).
You may find it interesting. It's a bit long, but if you get past the fact that he seems to be saying that Ledley wouldn't have been suited to AVBs defensive predilictions - though I think it just reads like that, and wasn't really the author's intention, it's a good read:

Hugo Lloris: AVB’s Missing Link?

Of all of the positions to embody André Villas-Boas’ new regime as Tottenham manager, his choice of goalkeeper may seem, initially, well down on the list.

However, unlike some of Villas-Boas’ stilted tactical rhetoric, such as the “medium block”, utilising the sweeper ‘keeping abilities of the twenty-five year old Hugo Lloris – rather than adapting the situation with Brad Friedel in the long-term- could prove his landmark tactical move in English football to date. After all, it is no coincidence – following the failure of his one-time (with Porto in 2010/2011) devastating high-line, with the occasionally cautious Petr Čech (ironically, is often only comfortable, at pace, heading the ball), the sluggishness of Alex and John Terry, the tactical indiscipline of David Luiz, and the still-maturing positioning of Branislav Ivanović at right-back – that Villas-Boas has been keen to address defensive dynamics at Tottenham.

This is a marked contrast in comparison with the sole signings of the more advanced Oriol Romeu (admittedly, often filled in as a centre back splitter in a deep-lying role but was still positioned in midfield), Raul Meireles, Juan Mata and Romelu Lukaku in his first window as Chelsea manager and has led to a drastic overhaul in Tottenham’s defensive ranks. After all, Sebastien Bassong, Vedran Ćorluka, Ledley King (although, admittedly, inflicted by injury but removed a Terry-like, near-immovable conundrum for Villas-Boas’ defensive line) and Ryan Nelson have all departed. There is no way that all four would have left under Harry Redknapp, even with the Englishman’s zealous dealings in the transfer market, and Jan Vertonghen was a telling, single replacement.

Tall, quick and tactically-mouldable for a defender, at just twenty-five years of age, Vertonghen possesses the leadership, passing ability and pace to channel – alongside, eventually (will return from injury in December), Younès Kaboul – Rolando and Nicolás Otamendi at Porto in 2010/2011. With Kyle Walker and Benoît Assou-Ekotto also pace-filled, and enjoying the best seasons of their respective careers in 2011/2012, Tottenham, once Villas-Boas eradicates the defence’s dangerous lapses in concentration towards end of matches, will be well placed to be a thoroughly dynamic defensive line. Like all proactive defences, though, a silky-footed presence in goal is required and Villas-Boas’ interest in the role of sweeper ‘keeper is a key philosophy definer for the Portuguese.

It has been an integral position for some of the most fluid formations in footballing history and the position was first innovated by Gyula Grosics, Hungary’s immensely-talented goalkeeper from 1947-62. Grosics was a member of Hungary’s undoubted golden generation alongside the likes of József Bozsik, Sándor Kocsis, Nándor Hidegkuti, Ferenc Puskás and Zoltán Czibor, but, intriguingly, the position remained fairly dormant once he retired in 1962 – augmented by Hungary’s, ultimate, lack of silverware. Regardless, the position centred on maximising the effectiveness of what was to become totaalvoetbal, whereby, simply, playing out into the backline allowed crucial retention of possession and retained the philosophy’s cherished principles. This, of course, would crystallise infamously, and most successfully, with Rinus Michels at Ajax from 1965-71 and was even taken a step further by Michels with the Netherlands at the 1974 World Cup, where the classy Arie Haan was positioned in defence to support the purposefully selected sweeper ‘keeper, Jan Jongbloed

The selection of Jongbloed was controversial, as the thirty-four year old took the place of Jan van Beveren – a PSV Eindhoven player that the excessively influential Johan Cruyff disliked – and, to this day, van Beveren remains the greatest goalkeeper the Netherlands ever produced. Perhaps, then, it was no surprise that Cruyff would continue his avocation of the sweeper ‘keeper into his managerial career, with the brilliant success stories of Stanley Menzo (under Cruyff at Ajax, 1985-8) and Andoni Zubizarreta (under Cruyff at Barcelona, 1988-1994), and the Dutchman recognised, too, how important defensively it was as, obviously, with the ‘keeper’s more advanced position, the penalty box became smaller for strikers and the goalkeepers’ courage and daunting stance grew in tandem with their evolving tactical experience. This went on to become a key hallmark of Barcelona’s philosophy of the past two decades, with the late Robert Enke among those who could not adapt and adjust to the drastic tactical shift in training and in competitive action for Barça’s goalkeepers.

From this, Villas-Boas can point to the ‘greedy’ necessity (given the forty-one year old Friedel’s standing as one of the most consistent goalkeepers of the Premier League era) of investing £12 million in Lloris as it could prove the final, and most crucial, piece of his defensive jigsaw. After all, showing how radical Villas-Boas was, the Portuguese even planned to dispense with the near-unrivalled goalkeeping abilities of Čech – who, admittedly, has fairly average long ball distribution but is very adept with his short passing and quick, counter-attacking throwouts – and replace him with the twenty-four year old Rui Patricio in the summer of 2012. Admittedly, like with Friedel, this was owed, somewhat, to Villas-Boas’ aim of stamping his mark on the dressing-room but shows just how radical the Portuguese can be.

Lloris, though, is a fantastic signing and, in fairness to Villas-Boas – undoubtedly owed to his years of scouting analysis as Jose Mourinho’s “eyes and ears‍ – his record in the transfer market has been his greatest managerial facet to date. From James Rodríguez, João Moutinho and Otamendi at Porto to Mata, Romeu and Lukaku at Chelsea, Villas-Boas always has dynamism, a strong mentality and potential in mind. Lloris is the perfect embodiment of the above-mentioned, with the the goalkeeper armed with brilliant situational awareness and decisiveness; always willing to throw his body into a one-on-one situation, regardless of his brilliantine-doused locks; and already captain of France at just twenty-five years of age.

It should come as little surprise, though, as learning from the great Dominique Baratelli from the age of nine at Nice, Lloris possessed the same natural attributes – be it defence, balance, response and agility – that the former French international goalkeeper was armed with:
He was not particularly big, but he had a tremendous sense of anticipation. He had something special that you can’t teach.​

That “something” could well have been Lloris’ trademark focus on matters at hand, which was poignantly seen in 2008, when the then twenty-one year old refused the offer of a leave of bereavement to instead make himself available for selection for Nice – just two days after his mother’s death. This mature temperament, selflessness and resolve (not a wholly comparable case but unlike, say, Čech’s natural hesitation with contact since his fractured skull in 2006, Lloris continues to relish confrontation despite numerous knee injuries owed to heavy, one-on-one collisions) has gone hand in hand with Lloris’ loyalty. After all, this is the goalkeeper who turned down Internazionale and Lazio at eighteen years of age, and sensibly (given his twenty-one year age and crucial need for near-instant environmental assimilation) chose Lyon over Milan in 2008.

Even with Les Gones‘ eventual inconsistency and leaky backline, Lyon was the perfect platform for Lloris: winning Ligue 1’s top Goalkeeper award in 2008/2009, 2009/2010 and 2011/2012; lifting the Ligue 1 title in 2010/2011; playing in the Champions League, with campaign-defining displays against the likes of Liverpool and Real Madrid in 2009/2010 as Lyon reached the semi-finals for the first time in their history; and claiming the number one jersey with France in 2009. Tellingly, despite all the adversity that Les Bleus have undergone in the past three years, it is with France that Lloris has truly shone and, perhaps, the immaturity and squabbling of his international teammates has accentuated his mental development even further. Thus, it was no coincidence that, in an otherwise disinterested French display against Ireland in the 2010 World Cup play-offs in November, 2009 – where Lloris denied Robbie Keane and Glenn Whelan in the first-leg and saved well from Damien Duff in the second-leg – that the goalkeeper emerged as ‘Saint Lloris’ in the French media.

It was to prove prophetic as, just seven months later, the French national team would sink to its nadir. Yoann Gourcuff, seen as the French media’s golden boy, was frozen out, amid taunts of favouritism, by Franck Ribéry and Nicolas Anelka; Anelka was sent home for telling Raymond Domenech to “go f*** yourself, you son of a whore” after Domenech criticised Anelka’s positioning at half-time of the eventual 2-0 defeat to Mexico on 17 July; and the whole of the French squad went on strike on 21 July in protest to Anelka’s expulsion. With the dressing-room dominated by Patrice Evra, Ribéry and Jérémy Toulalan, Lloris could do little to prevent France going out of the tournament in disgrace on the field, either, and, near-fatefully, he even made a goalkeeping error (misjudged Siphiwe Tshabalala corner, reflecting his still-improving judging of crosses, for Bongani Khumalo’s opening goal but, admittedly, this mistake was balanced out by some fine saves later in the match) for the opening goal in the 2-1 defeat to South Africa on 22 June.

Interestingly, it was Lloris who was the first to repent and condemn the squad’s actions, perhaps reflecting why he was the perfect figurehead for Les Bleus’ rebirth under Laurent Blanc as opposed to Ribéry’s desperate, and Machiavellian, appearance on Telefoot alongside Domenech on the eve of the Knysna mutiny:
Going on strike was the decision of a group that felt isolated, that felt no one had protected it, and that wanted to get a message across. We went way too far. It was a clumsy decision, a big mistake. It was totally stupid.​

Lloris went on to become Blanc’s undisputed captain, providing consistent displays in Euro 2012 qualification and the actual tournament, and seems set to retain that role under Didier Deschamps. Rather than this being down to Deschamps wanting to retain delicate continuity within the dressing-room, it is more to do with the fact that the seemingly meek goalkeeper has never been afraid to command and speak his mind since the 2010 World Cup, such as a profanity-laced lament of his Lyon teammates after they let slip (2-2) a 2-0 lead against Nice on 3 April, 2011. This will be a welcomed asset for Villas-Boas as with Vertonghen, Moussa Dembélé, Gylfi Sigurðsson, Clint Dempsey and, even, Emmanuel Adebayor (had no obligation to sign the Togolese), Villas-Boas now has a spine of indebted lieutenants.

While Villas-Boas may lack the justification (certainly not the audacity, given his previous with Frank Lampard) to drop an inform Friedel just yet, in seizing the opportunity and paying such a reasonable fee for one of the greatest goalkeepers in Europe, the Portuguese has secured not only an immensely hungry international eager to displace Friedel as Tottenham’s number one, but a crucial figure in ensuring that Villas-Boas’ project will, at the very least, have all the conditions present for a much greater potential success than at Chelsea.

source: http://backpagefootball.com/hugo-lloris-avbs-missing-link/48954/
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,455
18,975
Good read I think we will see him on Thursday night personally. Seems he has a good yea on his shoulders too from some of that article.

In terms of this "sweeper keeper" malarkey, how far do they push up?
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
Good read I think we will see him on Thursday night personally. Seems he has a good yea on his shoulders too from some of that article.

In terms of this "sweeper keeper" malarkey, how far do they push up?

I believe the obvious thing about the malarky is that, even at its very most efficient, it is gonna come unstuck on occasions (but that won't prevent a chorus from would be experts about how they would or wouldn't do it :rolleyes:). It is really about the percentages, if we are conceding less and winning more playing it then it is working.
Secondly, I would imagine that I would imagine that that is dependent on how quick and how coordinated (for want of a better expression) the defensive line is - and I think ours will score high in the rapidity stakes, not so sure about the coordination - leastwise, not in the short-term.
That said, I would imagine that he would play close to the edge of the penalty area and cover a zone outside it - but, again, I would expect the defence to be responsible for the majority of the space between PA and half-way line. I suppose, however, it would really depend on individual circumstances.








I dunno :sneaky:
 

hoodlum

eye have won eye, plus too others
Apr 4, 2011
2,844
1,614
Good read. Looking forward to watching him on Thursday - at least I expect him to get the starting nod in goal.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
Just thought I would share this with you all (all you lurvly people...and BC :eek:).
You may find it interesting. It's a bit long, but if you get past the fact that he seems to be saying that Ledley wouldn't have been suited to AVBs defensive predilictions - though I think it just reads like that, and wasn't really the author's intention, it's a good read:

http://backpagefootball.com/hugo-lloris-avbs-missing-link/48954/

"Hugo Lloris: AVB’s Missing Link?

Of all of the positions to embody André Villas-Boas’ new regime as Tottenham manager, his choice of goalkeeper may seem, initially, well down on the list.
However, unlike some of Villas-Boas’ stilted tactical rhetoric, such as the “medium block”, utilising the sweeper ‘keeping abilities of the twenty-five year old Hugo Lloris – rather than adapting the situation with Brad Friedel in the long-term- could prove his landmark tactical move in English football to date. After all, it is no coincidence – following the failure of his one-time (with Porto in 2010/2011) devastating high-line, with the occasionally cautious Petr Čech (ironically, is often only comfortable, at pace, heading the ball), the sluggishness of Alex and John Terry, the tactical indiscipline of David Luiz, and the still-maturing positioning of Branislav Ivanović at right-back – that Villas-Boas has been keen to address defensive dynamics at Tottenham.
This is a marked contrast in comparison with the sole signings of the more advanced Oriol Romeu (admittedly, often filled in as a centre back splitter in a deep-lying role but was still positioned in midfield), Raul Meireles, Juan Mata and Romelu Lukaku in his first window as Chelsea manager and has led to a drastic overhaul in Tottenham’s defensive ranks. After all, Sebastien Bassong, Vedran Ćorluka, Ledley King (although, admittedly, inflicted by injury but removed a Terry-like, near-immovable conundrum for Villas-Boas’ defensive line) and Ryan Nelson have all departed. There is no way that all four would have left under Harry Redknapp, even with the Englishman’s zealous dealings in the transfer market, and Jan Vertonghen was a telling, single replacement.
Tall, quick and tactically-mouldable for a defender, at just twenty-five years of age, Vertonghen possesses the leadership, passing ability and pace to channel – alongside, eventually (will return from injury in December), Younès Kaboul – Rolando and Nicolás Otamendi at Porto in 2010/2011. With Kyle Walker and Benoît Assou-Ekotto also pace-filled, and enjoying the best seasons of their respective careers in 2011/2012, Tottenham, once Villas-Boas eradicates the defence’s dangerous lapses in concentration towards end of matches, will be well placed to be a thoroughly dynamic defensive line. Like all proactive defences, though, a silky-footed presence in goal is required and Villas-Boas’ interest in the role of sweeper ‘keeper is a key philosophy definer for the Portuguese.
It has been an integral position for some of the most fluid formations in footballing history and the position was first innovated by Gyula Grosics, Hungary’s immensely-talented goalkeeper from 1947-62. Grosics was a member of Hungary’s undoubted golden generation alongside the likes of József Bozsik, Sándor Kocsis, Nándor Hidegkuti, Ferenc Puskás and Zoltán Czibor, but, intriguingly, the position remained fairly dormant once he retired in 1962 – augmented by Hungary’s, ultimate, lack of silverware. Regardless, the position centred on maximising the effectiveness of what was to become totaalvoetbal, whereby, simply, playing out into the backline allowed crucial retention of possession and retained the philosophy’s cherished principles. This, of course, would crystallise infamously, and most successfully, with Rinus Michels at Ajax from 1965-71 and was even taken a step further by Michels with the Netherlands at the 1974 World Cup, where the classy Arie Haan was positioned in defence to support the purposefully selected sweeper ‘keeper, Jan Jongbloed
The selection of Jongbloed was controversial, as the thirty-four year old took the place of Jan van Beveren – a PSV Eindhoven player that the excessively influential Johan Cruyff disliked – and, to this day, van Beveren remains the greatest goalkeeper the Netherlands ever produced. Perhaps, then, it was no surprise that Cruyff would continue his avocation of the sweeper ‘keeper into his managerial career, with the brilliant success stories of Stanley Menzo (under Cruyff at Ajax, 1985-8) and Andoni Zubizarreta (under Cruyff at Barcelona, 1988-1994), and the Dutchman recognised, too, how important defensively it was as, obviously, with the ‘keeper’s more advanced position, the penalty box became smaller for strikers and the goalkeepers’ courage and daunting stance grew in tandem with their evolving tactical experience. This went on to become a key hallmark of Barcelona’s philosophy of the past two decades, with the late Robert Enke among those who could not adapt and adjust to the drastic tactical shift in training and in competitive action for Barça’s goalkeepers.
From this, Villas-Boas can point to the ‘greedy’ necessity (given the forty-one year old Friedel’s standing as one of the most consistent goalkeepers of the Premier League era) of investing £12 million in Lloris as it could prove the final, and most crucial, piece of his defensive jigsaw. After all, showing how radical Villas-Boas was, the Portuguese even planned to dispense with the near-unrivalled goalkeeping abilities of Čech – who, admittedly, has fairly average long ball distribution but is very adept with his short passing and quick, counter-attacking throwouts – and replace him with the twenty-four year old Rui Patricio in the summer of 2012. Admittedly, like with Friedel, this was owed, somewhat, to Villas-Boas’ aim of stamping his mark on the dressing-room but shows just how radical the Portuguese can be.
Lloris, though, is a fantastic signing and, in fairness to Villas-Boas – undoubtedly owed to his years of scouting analysis as Jose Mourinho’s “eyes and ears‍ – his record in the transfer market has been his greatest managerial facet to date. From James Rodríguez, João Moutinho and Otamendi at Porto to Mata, Romeu and Lukaku at Chelsea, Villas-Boas always has dynamism, a strong mentality and potential in mind. Lloris is the perfect embodiment of the above-mentioned, with the the goalkeeper armed with brilliant situational awareness and decisiveness; always willing to throw his body into a one-on-one situation, regardless of his brilliantine-doused locks; and already captain of France at just twenty-five years of age.
It should come as little surprise, though, as learning from the great Dominique Baratelli from the age of nine at Nice, Lloris possessed the same natural attributes – be it defence, balance, response and agility – that the former French international goalkeeper was armed with:
He was not particularly big, but he had a tremendous sense of anticipation. He had something special that you can’t teach.​
That “something” could well have been Lloris’ trademark focus on matters at hand, which was poignantly seen in 2008, when the then twenty-one year old refused the offer of a leave of bereavement to instead make himself available for selection for Nice – just two days after his mother’s death. This mature temperament, selflessness and resolve (not a wholly comparable case but unlike, say, Čech’s natural hesitation with contact since his fractured skull in 2006, Lloris continues to relish confrontation despite numerous knee injuries owed to heavy, one-on-one collisions) has gone hand in hand with Lloris’ loyalty. After all, this is the goalkeeper who turned down Internazionale and Lazio at eighteen years of age, and sensibly (given his twenty-one year age and crucial need for near-instant environmental assimilation) chose Lyon over Milan in 2008.

Even with Les Gones‘ eventual inconsistency and leaky backline, Lyon was the perfect platform for Lloris: winning Ligue 1’s top Goalkeeper award in 2008/2009, 2009/2010 and 2011/2012; lifting the Ligue 1 title in 2010/2011; playing in the Champions League, with campaign-defining displays against the likes of Liverpool and Real Madrid in 2009/2010 as Lyon reached the semi-finals for the first time in their history; and claiming the number one jersey with France in 2009. Tellingly, despite all the adversity that Les Bleus have undergone in the past three years, it is with France that Lloris has truly shone and, perhaps, the immaturity and squabbling of his international teammates has accentuated his mental development even further. Thus, it was no coincidence that, in an otherwise disinterested French display against Ireland in the 2010 World Cup play-offs in November, 2009 – where Lloris denied Robbie Keane and Glenn Whelan in the first-leg and saved well from Damien Duff in the second-leg – that the goalkeeper emerged as ‘Saint Lloris’ in the French media.
It was to prove prophetic as, just seven months later, the French national team would sink to its nadir. Yoann Gourcuff, seen as the French media’s golden boy, was frozen out, amid taunts of favouritism, by Franck Ribéry and Nicolas Anelka; Anelka was sent home for telling Raymond Domenech to “go f*** yourself, you son of a whore” after Domenech criticised Anelka’s positioning at half-time of the eventual 2-0 defeat to Mexico on 17 July; and the whole of the French squad went on strike on 21 July in protest to Anelka’s expulsion. With the dressing-room dominated by Patrice Evra, Ribéry and Jérémy Toulalan, Lloris could do little to prevent France going out of the tournament in disgrace on the field, either, and, near-fatefully, he even made a goalkeeping error (misjudged Siphiwe Tshabalala corner, reflecting his still-improving judging of crosses, for Bongani Khumalo’s opening goal but, admittedly, this mistake was balanced out by some fine saves later in the match) for the opening goal in the 2-1 defeat to South Africa on 22 June.
Interestingly, it was Lloris who was the first to repent and condemn the squad’s actions, perhaps reflecting why he was the perfect figurehead for Les Bleus’ rebirth under Laurent Blanc as opposed to Ribéry’s desperate, and Machiavellian, appearance on Telefoot alongside Domenech on the eve of the Knysna mutiny:
Going on strike was the decision of a group that felt isolated, that felt no one had protected it, and that wanted to get a message across. We went way too far. It was a clumsy decision, a big mistake. It was totally stupid.​
Lloris went on to become Blanc’s undisputed captain, providing consistent displays in Euro 2012 qualification and the actual tournament, and seems set to retain that role under Didier Deschamps. Rather than this being down to Deschamps wanting to retain delicate continuity within the dressing-room, it is more to do with the fact that the seemingly meek goalkeeper has never been afraid to command and speak his mind since the 2010 World Cup, such as a profanity-laced lament of his Lyon teammates after they let slip (2-2) a 2-0 lead against Nice on 3 April, 2011. This will be a welcomed asset for Villas-Boas as with Vertonghen, Moussa Dembélé, Gylfi Sigurðsson, Clint Dempsey and, even, Emmanuel Adebayor (had no obligation to sign the Togolese), Villas-Boas now has a spine of indebted lieutenants.
While Villas-Boas may lack the justification (certainly not the audacity, given his previous with Frank Lampard) to drop an inform Friedel just yet, in seizing the opportunity and paying such a reasonable fee for one of the greatest goalkeepers in Europe, the Portuguese has secured not only an immensely hungry international eager to displace Friedel as Tottenham’s number one, but a crucial figure in ensuring that Villas-Boas’ project will, at the very least, have all the conditions present for a much greater potential success than at Chelsea."

Did you write that SP?
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,455
18,975
I believe the obvious thing about the malarky is that, even at its very most efficient, it is gonna come unstuck on occasions (but that won't prevent a chorus from would be experts about how they would or wouldn't do it :rolleyes:). It is really about the percentages, if we are conceding less and winning more playing it then it is working.
Secondly, I would imagine that I would imagine that that is dependent on how quick and how coordinated (for want of a better expression) the defensive line is - and I think ours will score high in the rapidity stakes, not so sure about the coordination - leastwise, not in the short-term.
That said, I would imagine that he would play close to the edge of the penalty area and cover a zone outside it - but, again, I would expect the defence to be responsible for the majority of the space between PA and half-way line. I suppose, however, it would really depend on individual circumstances.

Somthing like I was thinking :), had visions of Gomes against young boys (I think).

Definitely a definisve unit effort the hight line playing the offside trap and Hugo position himself far enough forward to sweep up any through ball along the ground or over the top. The idea works well in theory and no doubt AVB knows how to drill the players but there are some mighty quick teams in the PL and teams that like to hit on the counter, Manure being an example, Rooney, RVP, Nani etc could make a sweeper keeper look pretty stupid.







I dunno :sneaky:
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
That was interesting but not easy on the eyes.

Maybe easier on the eyes if you followed the linkypoo - I put the text in as well because, when you don't, some folk can't follow the link 'cos of i-Phones, being at work, or whatever (I wouldn't know, just know some folk whinge :)).

Did you write that SP?

No.
If I had, I would not have called it an interesting article (even I lack that degree of arrogance :eek: ).
I included a link, at the top (easy for all sane folk to see) so normal people could follow it and see the original article, at which it would have been clear as a Summer sky that someone not called SP had written it (y)
I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to write an article of that detail :cry:

Somthing like I was thinking :), had visions of Gomes against young boys (I think).

Definitely a definisve unit effort the hight line playing the offside trap and Hugo position himself far enough forward to sweep up any through ball along the ground or over the top. The idea works well in theory and no doubt AVB knows how to drill the players but there are some mighty quick teams in the PL and teams that like to hit on the counter, Manure being an example, Rooney, RVP, Nani etc could make a sweeper keeper look pretty stupid.







I dunno :sneaky:

Yeah, but like I said, it is about percentages, if we score more, concede less and earn more points, over a season, then the system works even if occasionally leave us thinking Oh FFS.
Despite what some fans (and some members of this forum) think, no-one will ever invent a system where a team scores once every three minutes and never concedes a goal...I mean, the Nazis rules the World and even they bamboozle Sly Stallone!





I dunno :sneaky:
 

Luka Van der Bale

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
6,041
13,611
Just thought I would share this with you all (all you lurvly people...and BC :eek:).
You may find it interesting. It's a bit long, but if you get past the fact that he seems to be saying that Ledley wouldn't have been suited to AVBs defensive predilictions - though I think it just reads like that, and wasn't really the author's intention, it's a good read:

http://backpagefootball.com/hugo-lloris-avbs-missing-link/48954/

"Hugo Lloris: AVB’s Missing Link?

Of all of the positions to embody André Villas-Boas’ new regime as Tottenham manager, his choice of goalkeeper may seem, initially, well down on the list.
However, unlike some of Villas-Boas’ stilted tactical rhetoric, such as the “medium block”, utilising the sweeper ‘keeping abilities of the twenty-five year old Hugo Lloris – rather than adapting the situation with Brad Friedel in the long-term- could prove his landmark tactical move in English football to date. After all, it is no coincidence – following the failure of his one-time (with Porto in 2010/2011) devastating high-line, with the occasionally cautious Petr Čech (ironically, is often only comfortable, at pace, heading the ball), the sluggishness of Alex and John Terry, the tactical indiscipline of David Luiz, and the still-maturing positioning of Branislav Ivanović at right-back – that Villas-Boas has been keen to address defensive dynamics at Tottenham.
This is a marked contrast in comparison with the sole signings of the more advanced Oriol Romeu (admittedly, often filled in as a centre back splitter in a deep-lying role but was still positioned in midfield), Raul Meireles, Juan Mata and Romelu Lukaku in his first window as Chelsea manager and has led to a drastic overhaul in Tottenham’s defensive ranks. After all, Sebastien Bassong, Vedran Ćorluka, Ledley King (although, admittedly, inflicted by injury but removed a Terry-like, near-immovable conundrum for Villas-Boas’ defensive line) and Ryan Nelson have all departed. There is no way that all four would have left under Harry Redknapp, even with the Englishman’s zealous dealings in the transfer market, and Jan Vertonghen was a telling, single replacement.
Tall, quick and tactically-mouldable for a defender, at just twenty-five years of age, Vertonghen possesses the leadership, passing ability and pace to channel – alongside, eventually (will return from injury in December), Younès Kaboul – Rolando and Nicolás Otamendi at Porto in 2010/2011. With Kyle Walker and Benoît Assou-Ekotto also pace-filled, and enjoying the best seasons of their respective careers in 2011/2012, Tottenham, once Villas-Boas eradicates the defence’s dangerous lapses in concentration towards end of matches, will be well placed to be a thoroughly dynamic defensive line. Like all proactive defences, though, a silky-footed presence in goal is required and Villas-Boas’ interest in the role of sweeper ‘keeper is a key philosophy definer for the Portuguese.
It has been an integral position for some of the most fluid formations in footballing history and the position was first innovated by Gyula Grosics, Hungary’s immensely-talented goalkeeper from 1947-62. Grosics was a member of Hungary’s undoubted golden generation alongside the likes of József Bozsik, Sándor Kocsis, Nándor Hidegkuti, Ferenc Puskás and Zoltán Czibor, but, intriguingly, the position remained fairly dormant once he retired in 1962 – augmented by Hungary’s, ultimate, lack of silverware. Regardless, the position centred on maximising the effectiveness of what was to become totaalvoetbal, whereby, simply, playing out into the backline allowed crucial retention of possession and retained the philosophy’s cherished principles. This, of course, would crystallise infamously, and most successfully, with Rinus Michels at Ajax from 1965-71 and was even taken a step further by Michels with the Netherlands at the 1974 World Cup, where the classy Arie Haan was positioned in defence to support the purposefully selected sweeper ‘keeper, Jan Jongbloed
The selection of Jongbloed was controversial, as the thirty-four year old took the place of Jan van Beveren – a PSV Eindhoven player that the excessively influential Johan Cruyff disliked – and, to this day, van Beveren remains the greatest goalkeeper the Netherlands ever produced. Perhaps, then, it was no surprise that Cruyff would continue his avocation of the sweeper ‘keeper into his managerial career, with the brilliant success stories of Stanley Menzo (under Cruyff at Ajax, 1985-8) and Andoni Zubizarreta (under Cruyff at Barcelona, 1988-1994), and the Dutchman recognised, too, how important defensively it was as, obviously, with the ‘keeper’s more advanced position, the penalty box became smaller for strikers and the goalkeepers’ courage and daunting stance grew in tandem with their evolving tactical experience. This went on to become a key hallmark of Barcelona’s philosophy of the past two decades, with the late Robert Enke among those who could not adapt and adjust to the drastic tactical shift in training and in competitive action for Barça’s goalkeepers.
From this, Villas-Boas can point to the ‘greedy’ necessity (given the forty-one year old Friedel’s standing as one of the most consistent goalkeepers of the Premier League era) of investing £12 million in Lloris as it could prove the final, and most crucial, piece of his defensive jigsaw. After all, showing how radical Villas-Boas was, the Portuguese even planned to dispense with the near-unrivalled goalkeeping abilities of Čech – who, admittedly, has fairly average long ball distribution but is very adept with his short passing and quick, counter-attacking throwouts – and replace him with the twenty-four year old Rui Patricio in the summer of 2012. Admittedly, like with Friedel, this was owed, somewhat, to Villas-Boas’ aim of stamping his mark on the dressing-room but shows just how radical the Portuguese can be.
Lloris, though, is a fantastic signing and, in fairness to Villas-Boas – undoubtedly owed to his years of scouting analysis as Jose Mourinho’s “eyes and ears‍ – his record in the transfer market has been his greatest managerial facet to date. From James Rodríguez, João Moutinho and Otamendi at Porto to Mata, Romeu and Lukaku at Chelsea, Villas-Boas always has dynamism, a strong mentality and potential in mind. Lloris is the perfect embodiment of the above-mentioned, with the the goalkeeper armed with brilliant situational awareness and decisiveness; always willing to throw his body into a one-on-one situation, regardless of his brilliantine-doused locks; and already captain of France at just twenty-five years of age.
It should come as little surprise, though, as learning from the great Dominique Baratelli from the age of nine at Nice, Lloris possessed the same natural attributes – be it defence, balance, response and agility – that the former French international goalkeeper was armed with:
He was not particularly big, but he had a tremendous sense of anticipation. He had something special that you can’t teach.​
That “something” could well have been Lloris’ trademark focus on matters at hand, which was poignantly seen in 2008, when the then twenty-one year old refused the offer of a leave of bereavement to instead make himself available for selection for Nice – just two days after his mother’s death. This mature temperament, selflessness and resolve (not a wholly comparable case but unlike, say, Čech’s natural hesitation with contact since his fractured skull in 2006, Lloris continues to relish confrontation despite numerous knee injuries owed to heavy, one-on-one collisions) has gone hand in hand with Lloris’ loyalty. After all, this is the goalkeeper who turned down Internazionale and Lazio at eighteen years of age, and sensibly (given his twenty-one year age and crucial need for near-instant environmental assimilation) chose Lyon over Milan in 2008.

Even with Les Gones‘ eventual inconsistency and leaky backline, Lyon was the perfect platform for Lloris: winning Ligue 1’s top Goalkeeper award in 2008/2009, 2009/2010 and 2011/2012; lifting the Ligue 1 title in 2010/2011; playing in the Champions League, with campaign-defining displays against the likes of Liverpool and Real Madrid in 2009/2010 as Lyon reached the semi-finals for the first time in their history; and claiming the number one jersey with France in 2009. Tellingly, despite all the adversity that Les Bleus have undergone in the past three years, it is with France that Lloris has truly shone and, perhaps, the immaturity and squabbling of his international teammates has accentuated his mental development even further. Thus, it was no coincidence that, in an otherwise disinterested French display against Ireland in the 2010 World Cup play-offs in November, 2009 – where Lloris denied Robbie Keane and Glenn Whelan in the first-leg and saved well from Damien Duff in the second-leg – that the goalkeeper emerged as ‘Saint Lloris’ in the French media.
It was to prove prophetic as, just seven months later, the French national team would sink to its nadir. Yoann Gourcuff, seen as the French media’s golden boy, was frozen out, amid taunts of favouritism, by Franck Ribéry and Nicolas Anelka; Anelka was sent home for telling Raymond Domenech to “go f*** yourself, you son of a whore” after Domenech criticised Anelka’s positioning at half-time of the eventual 2-0 defeat to Mexico on 17 July; and the whole of the French squad went on strike on 21 July in protest to Anelka’s expulsion. With the dressing-room dominated by Patrice Evra, Ribéry and Jérémy Toulalan, Lloris could do little to prevent France going out of the tournament in disgrace on the field, either, and, near-fatefully, he even made a goalkeeping error (misjudged Siphiwe Tshabalala corner, reflecting his still-improving judging of crosses, for Bongani Khumalo’s opening goal but, admittedly, this mistake was balanced out by some fine saves later in the match) for the opening goal in the 2-1 defeat to South Africa on 22 June.
Interestingly, it was Lloris who was the first to repent and condemn the squad’s actions, perhaps reflecting why he was the perfect figurehead for Les Bleus’ rebirth under Laurent Blanc as opposed to Ribéry’s desperate, and Machiavellian, appearance on Telefoot alongside Domenech on the eve of the Knysna mutiny:
Going on strike was the decision of a group that felt isolated, that felt no one had protected it, and that wanted to get a message across. We went way too far. It was a clumsy decision, a big mistake. It was totally stupid.​
Lloris went on to become Blanc’s undisputed captain, providing consistent displays in Euro 2012 qualification and the actual tournament, and seems set to retain that role under Didier Deschamps. Rather than this being down to Deschamps wanting to retain delicate continuity within the dressing-room, it is more to do with the fact that the seemingly meek goalkeeper has never been afraid to command and speak his mind since the 2010 World Cup, such as a profanity-laced lament of his Lyon teammates after they let slip (2-2) a 2-0 lead against Nice on 3 April, 2011. This will be a welcomed asset for Villas-Boas as with Vertonghen, Moussa Dembélé, Gylfi Sigurðsson, Clint Dempsey and, even, Emmanuel Adebayor (had no obligation to sign the Togolese), Villas-Boas now has a spine of indebted lieutenants.
While Villas-Boas may lack the justification (certainly not the audacity, given his previous with Frank Lampard) to drop an inform Friedel just yet, in seizing the opportunity and paying such a reasonable fee for one of the greatest goalkeepers in Europe, the Portuguese has secured not only an immensely hungry international eager to displace Friedel as Tottenham’s number one, but a crucial figure in ensuring that Villas-Boas’ project will, at the very least, have all the conditions present for a much greater potential success than at Chelsea."
Harsh to pick this out... But no he didn't.
 

Harry_Snatch

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2009
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I believe the obvious thing about the malarky is that, even at its very most efficient, it is gonna come unstuck on occasions (but that won't prevent a chorus from would be experts about how they would or wouldn't do it :rolleyes:). It is really about the percentages, if we are conceding less and winning more playing it then it is working.
Secondly, I would imagine that I would imagine that that is dependent on how quick and how coordinated (for want of a better expression) the defensive line is - and I think ours will score high in the rapidity stakes, not so sure about the coordination - leastwise, not in the short-term.
That said, I would imagine that he would play close to the edge of the penalty area and cover a zone outside it - but, again, I would expect the defence to be responsible for the majority of the space between PA and half-way line. I suppose, however, it would really depend on individual circumstances.








I dunno :sneaky:

Whilst that's their job to do it. It is so predictable. If they don't know how it's done then it's wrong.

I'll be interested to see how far up Lloris plays. I think we all know that eventually Lloris will be no 1 and it won't be that long. AVB just seems to have learnt from chavski and this time he is transitioning his theory's in. 4-3-3 with Lloris in goals could be in place by Christmas.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
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Whilst that's their job to do it. It is so predictable. If they don't know how it's done then it's wrong.

I'll be interested to see how far up Lloris plays. I think we all know that eventually Lloris will be no 1 and it won't be that long. AVB just seems to have learnt from chavski and this time he is transitioning his theory's in. 4-3-3 with Lloris in goals could be in place by Christmas.

I was thinking of members of this forum :eek:
 

Harry_Snatch

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2009
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I was thinking of members of this forum :eek:

yeah well them too. Everybody has opinions I guess but you would hope that most would be up for at least being open minded to new playing systems. It's not like the club has been winning trophy after trophy and it ain't broke so don't fix it.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
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yeah well them too. Everybody has opinions I guess but you would hope that most would be up for at least being open minded to new playing systems. It's not like the club has been winning trophy after trophy and it ain't broke so don't fix it.

But you could understand how the confusion has arisen...we've won more than the Goons in the last seven years :)
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
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I've edited the article so it's a bit easier on the eyes, cheers SP.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
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I've edited the article so it's a bit easier on the eyes, cheers SP.

Cheers, Goode Pard'Ner.
TBH, I was so focussed on not importing any of the (copyrighted) images (and therefor being a naughty boy, again), that I kinda didn't notice the formatting - and then, obviously, didn't read it myself, having just read it on the original site. Thanks again (y)
 
Jun 4, 2007
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The high line is the "new" zonal marking, I guess. Easy targets when it doesn't work because of course every other system/tactic works all the time) for media and us fans alike. Personally, I don't like a high defensive line and prefer man to man rather than zonal, but it all depends on who the players are. If AVB wants to go high line I' ll support that.

Loris will surely play tonight.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
The high line is the "new" zonal marking, I guess. Easy targets when it doesn't work because of course every other system/tactic works all the time) for media and us fans alike. Personally, I don't like a high defensive line and prefer man to man rather than zonal, but it all depends on who the players are. If AVB wants to go high line I' ll support that.

Loris will surely play tonight.

Yeah, like I said, above, there will never be a system that doesn't concede, so there is no point squawking like a constipated parrot every time a team finds a way through - it is all about percentages, and if our goals for/against ratio and/or PPG are improved that is all that matters. And it si all about having the personnel to implement the system - Lloris is certainly more suited than Brad, and,it would seem, more so than Cech was at Chelsea.

I can't say I am an automatic fan of the high line, but I will be watching with interest, and support (and wanting it to succeed) (y)
 
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